Relief line (Toilet charges to be scrapped at NR-managed stations next year)

[takno]

NR are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. It is good PR and NR can pass on the charges to the TOC's who use the stations . The charge is then passed on to the passengers. The facilities at NR main line stations are likely to be used by the general public as well as train passengers thus spreading the cost more widely and keeping the fee low. If the facilities are made free but train passengers bear the cost then train passengers are subsidising the general public who get to use the facilities for free.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think of providing free public toilets as a kind of minimal tax on operating large public buildings in busy places. If that doesn't float your boat though, then how about thinking of it as an absolutely tiny payback on the monumental subsidies the railways receive from general taxation?

 

[fowler9]

I haven't noticed any problems since Birmingham New Street toilets became free, and it saves a lot of hassle making sure you have change before starting your journey. At Lime Street sometimes the change machine is out of order, so people have to go to Boots and buy something - unless they know about the Wetherspoons alternative! Even a token 10p is frustrating if you don't happen to have any small change. I would rather they put 5p on the cost of every ticket and ensured provision of free toilets at all railway stations, although I know hell will freeze over before some rural ones achieve such a luxury!

I believe Glasgow Central charge 50p, which seems excessive. Hope Scottish stations are included and not just English facilities.

The change machine at Lime Street is normally out of order. On the plus side the new toilet barriers are also normally out of order so you can pee for free anyway.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Are there toilets in the railway part of BDI or do you mean the ones in the undercroft opposite the stairs to the buses? I'm not sure how much scope Northern have to do anything about those:- they'd presumably have to go through the PTE which in West Yorkshire would mean something would actually get done about 2 decades after the plans were made!

The condition of toilets is probably less to do with whether they're charged for or not, and more to do with the general demeanour of the locals. Leeds toilets are charged for on the concourse and are disgusting (the free ones on P12/14 are marginally less horrible, weirdly) whereas the ones at Huddersfield (the P4 ones that is, the ones on P1 make even the ones I used at Prague Masarykovo (surly human-attendant included, cost: 2CZK) seem positively salubrious!) whilst not exactly gold-plated are at least reasonably well looked-after despite being free.

The ones in the undercroft facing the stairs to the bus part of the interchange.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The ones in the undercroft facing the stairs to the bus part of the interchange.

I'm pretty sure that Metro are responsible for those, rather than Northern. They don't strike me as being that much worse than the ones in other Metro-operated bus stations. They're no worse than Wakefield which are Arriva-operated and are (or were) 20p to use.

 

[John Bray]

I've resented station toilet charges for 30 years. I think toilets should be provided in public places as a common good. It should be a legal requirement for local authorities to provide a dense enough network, and stations are obvious nodes. Excluding the homeless with a charge is just heartless. Stations are given a fraction of the ticket price, and one thing they should spend it on is toilets, to provide a civil society

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's a high risk strategy. Someone else said with CET now fitted, train bogs are more reliably available... I disagree!

I took that post to mean that with CET fitted there's nothing stopping you from boarding a train that isn't due to move for a while, using the facilities and flushing while it's in the station...

The downside of that being that it fills the tanks up, meaning that train will have to run with the toilet being locked out!

Now if somebody can invent an efficient motor powered by burning the contents of the tanks, they'll be on to a winner. TOCs could even give vouchers for 10% off your next trip that get printed out of a device when you flush!

 

[hooverboy]

I took that post to mean that with CET fitted there's nothing stopping you from boarding a train that isn't due to move for a while, using the facilities and flushing while it's in the station...

The downside of that being that it fills the tanks up, meaning that train will have to run with the toilet being locked out!

Now if somebody can invent an efficient motor powered by burning the contents of the tanks, they'll be on to a winner. TOCs could even give vouchers for 10% off your next trip that get printed out of a device when you flush!

often wondered what the calorific value of poo was!
... you are quite right in thinking of alternative solutions....all it needs is a few bright boffins in a chemistry lab to design-or genetically manufacture some enzymes that can convert human waste into biofuel in double quick time...

likewise with plastics....long chain hydrocarbons/polymers should theoretically contain more bang for your buck than diesel

 

[adrock1976]

Considering at most major stations you see the likes of either or both Star*ucks (insert consonant of choice) and Boots the Chemist, and as both are well known in recent times for operating tax dodging scams, it would be a reasonable idea for them to help fund the provision and cleaning of station toilets as reparation.

On a side note and not long after I started primary school (many years ago), the deputy headteacher had a copy of the local rag (Dudley News) with the front page headline being of a local businessman who got caught for operating a scheme that enabled him to get out of paying tax. Needless to say, he became a house guest of Lizzie Windsor for 7 years not at Buckingham Palace, but at Winson Green prison in Birmingham.

Of all these large corporations and various individuals who are operating tax dodging schemes today, why have they not been sent to jail? Is it because some of them also donate to the government for election campaigns and/or are also advisors on policy issues too?

 

[theageofthetra]

Considering at most major stations you see the likes of either or both Star*ucks (insert consonant of choice) and Boots the Chemist, and as both are well known in recent times for operating tax dodging scams, it would be a reasonable idea for them to help fund the provision and cleaning of station toilets as reparation.

On a side note and not long after I started primary school (many years ago), the deputy headteacher had a copy of the local rag (Dudley News) with the front page headline being of a local businessman who got caught for operating a scheme that enabled him to get out of paying tax. Needless to say, he became a house guest of Lizzie Windsor for 7 years not at Buckingham Palace, but at Winson Green prison in Birmingham.

Of all these large corporations and various individuals who are operating tax dodging schemes today, why have they not been sent to jail? Is it because some of them also donate to the government for election campaigns and/or are also advisors on policy issues too?

That will also mean jailing those who manage most trade union accounts and public sector pension funds who all invest in legal tax saving investments.

 

[fowler9]

Just used the bogs at Lime Street. Very nice. The slot on the change machine is at the ideal height for someone on their hands and knees. Would have used the bogs at Parkway but the three of the them were engaged or out of use. The one on the train was locked out of use.

 

[AY1975]

Barring a small number of exceptions, the overwhelming majority of TOC-operated stations do not charge for using the facilities, but yes, it would be good in a sense.

Sheffield does (only for the toilets on the concourse, and the turnstiles are often out of order so you don't have to pay. The ones on the platforms are free anyway).

I think Glasgow Queen Street does too (or did before the current rebuilding started), and so do Brighton and Eastbourne (or they did last time I was there, and still do according to the plans of those stations on the National Rail website).

 

[AY1975]

I suppose if it's that or close them then it's the only option. In some places the cutbacks have led to a high percentage of public conveniences being permanently shut, which is bad enough for the residents never mind tourists.

Yes, and some councils have started charging for toilets as the only way that they can afford to keep them open. I suppose they can only justify doing that if they think they will make enough to cover their costs, though.

 

[AY1975]

That will also mean jailing those who manage most trade union accounts and public sector pension funds who all invest in legal tax saving investments.

There is a difference between tax evasion (breaking the law to evade tax) and tax avoidance (doing something that's within the law to avoid tax). I know that's getting off topic, though.

 

[theironroad]

Sheffield does (only for the toilets on the concourse, and the turnstiles are often out of order so you don't have to pay. The ones on the platforms are free anyway).

I think Glasgow Queen Street does too (or did before the current rebuilding started), and so do Brighton and Eastbourne (or they did last time I was there, and still do according to the plans of those stations on the National Rail website).

Think the Glasgow queen at ones still charging despite the works. However, until I think last year the turnstile wasnt working correctly for a few years and was essentially free as it would turn over every time, though some people still put money in the slot.

 

[trainophile]

Last week Glasgow Central was still charging 40p. Disgraceful, considering there aren't any in the 1st Class Lounge. Luckily I had planned for this and used the inbound Scotrail one.

 

[Tio Terry]

Many years ago, in BR days, I was given the job of getting CCTV installed in both Gents and Ladies toilets at Waterloo. It was part of a number of measures, including charging for access, intended to combat the use of the facilities for drug dealing and was carried out at the request of the BTP.

Let’s hope things have changed!

 

[theageofthetra]

Many years ago, in BR days, I was given the job of getting CCTV installed in both Gents and Ladies toilets at Waterloo. It was part of a number of measures, including charging for access, intended to combat the use of the facilities for drug dealing and was carried out at the request of the BTP.

Let’s hope things have changed!

They haven't

 

[DarloRich]

I've resented station toilet charges for 30 years. I think toilets should be provided in public places as a common good. It should be a legal requirement for local authorities to provide a dense enough network, and stations are obvious nodes. Excluding the homeless with a charge is just heartless. Stations are given a fraction of the ticket price, and one thing they should spend it on is toilets, to provide a civil society

and no doubt you will be back complaining when the toilets are smashed up, used as a kip by homeless people, as a spot for cottaging and used by druggies shooting up!

Now if somebody can invent an efficient motor powered by burning the contents of the tanks, they'll be on to a winner.

You can already buy incinerator toilets. Give it a google.

 

[Tetchytyke]

and no doubt you will be back complaining when the toilets are smashed up, used as a kip by homeless people, as a spot for cottaging and used by druggies shooting up!

The last time I used the concourse bogs at Leeds there were two hobos shaving in the sinks and a pair of very soiled y-fronts in the cubicle. The other was blocked.

NR charged me 30p for that experience. And I still had to go use the loos in Wetherspoons.

 

[yorksrob]

The last time I used the concourse bogs at Leeds there were two hobos shaving in the sinks and a pair of very soiled y-fronts in the cubicle. The other was blocked.

NR charged me 30p for that experience. And I still had to go use the loos in Wetherspoons.

Quite. If they want to charge for the 'experience' they need a lot more than three cubicles.

 

[Brush 4]

30p is a cheap price to smash up fittings, it isn't a disincentive. All public toilets should be free everywhere. Matter of principle. Good move by NR to free the loo.

 

[Qwerty133]

Sheffield does (only for the toilets on the concourse, and the turnstiles are often out of order so you don't have to pay. The ones on the platforms are free anyway).

I think Glasgow Queen Street does too (or did before the current rebuilding started), and so do Brighton and Eastbourne (or they did last time I was there, and still do according to the plans of those stations on the National Rail website).

I really don't see the point at stations without ticket barriers like Sheffield.
Another that still charges as far as I know are the ones at Leicester on the corridor between the concourse and the lifts although I imagine they collect very little in terms of revenue as most passengers don't know they exist.

 

[maire23]

Another that still charges as far as I know are the ones at Leicester on the corridor between the concourse and the lifts although I imagine they collect very little in terms of revenue as most passengers don't know they exist.

I think they’re closed now- I was last in Leicester station on Saturday morning and not only were the shutters down but there was a barrier in front of them so that looks pretty final to me. Every time I’ve been in there they were disgusting so no great loss to be honest.

 

[Mag_seven]

I put 30p into the Euston toilets turnstiles this morning, only to notice afterwards that they had opened up a gate that everybody else was passing through free of charge.

 

[Kite159]

I put 30p into the Euston toilets turnstiles this morning, only to notice afterwards that they had opened up a gate that everybody else was passing through free of charge.

I gave the toilets at Euston a go on Friday night (only because I noticed the gate was open) and they weren't as grim as some make out. The toilets at Blackfriars are a bit grim with the concrete floor.

One thing which I found odd was manually operated sink taps, I wonder how much water gets wasted when someone leaves the tap running without realising it does't turn itself off?

 

[Butts]

I gave the toilets at Euston a go on Friday night (only because I noticed the gate was open) and they weren't as grim as some make out. The toilets at Blackfriars are a bit grim with the concrete floor.

One thing which I found odd was manually operated sink taps, I wonder how much water gets wasted when someone leaves the tap running without realising it does't turn itself off?

Do you have that problem at home or are you blessed with automatic taps ?

If you turn it on surely you dont expect it to turn off automatically unless it's one of those increasingly rare (thankfully) push down efforts.

 

[Kite159]

Do you have that problem at home or are you blessed with automatic taps ?

If you turn it on surely you dont expect it to turn off automatically unless it's one of those increasingly rare (thankfully) push down efforts.

I was thinking more of some other users who might leave the tap running thinking it will turn itself off, either by accident or being troublesome. The worse are the push down taps which shut off as soon as you release pressure (I've seen push down ones where the return to closure is slow so you get roughly 15 seconds before it stops running)

 

[Bletchleyite]

30p is a cheap price to smash up fittings, it isn't a disincentive

It is a strong disincentive, just as £0.05, a far smaller amount, has proven itself to be a surprisingly powerful disincentive to take a new carrier bag when shopping.

 

[Brush 4]

Some were saying that the pay toilets are also bad. I wouldn't know as I only use free ones. Royal Festival Hall for Waterloo, followed by a nice coffee there, which I would have had at Waterloo had the loos been free, which soon they will be.....finally.

 

[Mikey C]

Some were saying that the pay toilets are also bad. I wouldn't know as I only use free ones. Royal Festival Hall for Waterloo, followed by a nice coffee there, which I would have had at Waterloo had the loos been free, which soon they will be.....finally.

Waterloo is a bit of an anomaly at the moment considering that the toilets at Victoria, Charing Cross, London Bridge and Cannon Street are all free!