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Remaining Effects of Covid

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DelayRepay

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Also notwithstanding that (as I understand it) there are three waiting days. So if you're off only for a day or two, you get nothing if on SSP ('linked illness' excepting)
It is a sad reflection of our economy and labour market that the loss of a single day's pay can cause someone hardship. But it can.

I agree with those suggesting that one of the things coming out of the pandemic should have been better sick pay.
 
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Watershed

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I agree with this.

I would note that working from home while sick is a reasonable compromise for most people and doesn’t involve any loss of pay or significant costs to the employer. So this should only apply to those employees where remote work is not an option, which reduces the cost (and frankly balances things out a bit, as WFH-ers have had a very cushy ride lately at the expense of those whose work requires physical attendance).

That said, given that the examples I’ve seen (and mentioned in my post above) are from people in the former group, or doing leisure activities, I think it’s fair to say that societal change on people reducing socialisation while sick has been unsuccessful. Which (if I had to speculate) is likely the consequence of certain types pushing a bit too hard re Covid, to the extent that public health is now thoroughly rejected.
I wouldn't entirely agree with that; whilst working from home will sometimes be possible when ill, not every illness will lend itself to that. The entitlement to sick pay therefore shouldn't depend on whether the job can normally be done from home.
 

route101

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I recently changed jobs and I don't think are keen on WFH and if your off ill. People come in spluttering and coughing.
 

Lloyds siding

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Interesting academic discussion about sick pay, etc.
I didn't get another contract after February 2020 until one in November/December, which was for six weeks work.
I got one week's furlough pay because of a chance conversation with an admin person in a Milton Keynes coffee bar in January 2020...as a result of an implied verbal contract of future work I was given a week's pay!
My lack of contracts since 2020 means I've lost out on at least £30,000 pay that I will never get back.
I was meant to be working last week, but that was self-employment, but couldn't do it after getting COVID. No sick pay of course...just missed out on about £700! That would have been my first contract since August last year.
 

Crossover

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I can understand it when there isn't a 'regular' workforce, the employer tries to screen out those who can cause the job to grind to a halt when lots of folk go off sick. I get paid for being tested, so not complaining. If there were an easy test for the current strains of flu I think they'd test for those. If you come in obviously ill, but testing negative, I think you would be sent home.

I was meant to be working last week, but that was self-employment, but couldn't do it after getting COVID. No sick pay of course...just missed out on about £700! That would have been my first contract since August last year.

So you get paid for testing, but now miss out on £700 because you tested - I hope the testing paid particularly well!
 
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Lloyds siding

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So you get paid for testing, but now miss out on £700 because you tested - I hope the testing paid particularly well!
No.
Thinking back a few years: I was working at Heathrow airport, we were all scanned with an infra-red scanner....one person showed a feverish temperature and was sent home. (I expect that they were paid for turning up.)
 

Starmill

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I would note that working from home while sick is a reasonable compromise for most people and doesn’t involve any loss of pay or significant costs to the employer.
I can choose to work at home if I want to, but don't because I find it too difficult to get work done. I'm also familiar with the policies of enforced working at home during mild illness, but I'd be strongly against making that the law because for a small number of people like me it could make things far worse. That said, I have struggled through it where that's been the only option, but that has been based on an honest and open conversation with work which I've been lucky enough to be able to have about my lower than usual productivity on such days.

Personally I think that a more Japanese-like culture of staying conscientiously out of other people's way if you're aware you're infectious with a cold would be overall a benefit to society. A handful of days per year at most are a sensible sacrifice. Obviously lots of people here will disagree with that.
 

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Railway medical today with Medigold. They are still demanding everyone wears a facemask and sanitises hands, doesn't share pens, etc.
 

Starmill

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Which (if I had to speculate) is likely the consequence of certain types pushing a bit too hard re Covid, to the extent that public health is now thoroughly rejected.
I think that in general there's no change in how health-conscious people are between 2019 and now. People inclined to be more conscious then will still be now, most people aren't and haven't started. Also at the system level there are lots of actions we could take to reduce the likelihood of further zoonotic pathogens developing, such as restricting the live caging of animals and minimising unnecessary close contact between people and animals, but we have demonstrated absolutely no interest in doing that either. A different virus, such as an influenza one which causes disease with a far higher case fatality rate than Covid, could still spread just as easily to or between people. We've got no better mitigation in place now than 2019. The government would be likely to react with exactly the same chaotic and bewildered mess that it did three years ago. Another pandemic is quite likely in the coming decades, it's just a matter of when exactly, and how fatal it is.
 

Freightmaster

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Railway medical today with Medigold. They are still demanding everyone wears a facemask and sanitises hands, doesn't share pens, etc.
2020 called - they want their overzealous paranoia back... :frown:





MARK
 

Cdd89

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I think that a more Japanese-like culture of staying conscientiously out of other people's way if you're aware you're infectious with a cold would be overall a benefit to society.
I don’t think that’s unreasonable (though people shouldn’t put themselves to major hardship to do so, whether financial in terms of losing paid work or losing paid travel/ticket reservations, or social in terms of being excluded from major trips or gatherings).

One thing — having just been in Japan, I can categorically say that describing it as Japanese-style culture is false. There were notably more sick people out and about.

People inclined to be more conscious then will still be now, most people aren't and haven't started
I think the underlined bit is demonstrably untrue (though I’m sure it’s true of a minority!). I know numerous people who took pretty stringent precautions from 2020/2021 who have since fully reverted.
 
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Starmill

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I think the underlined bit is demonstrably untrue (though I’m sure it’s true of a minority!). I know numerous people who took pretty stringent precautions from 2020/2021 who have since fully reverted.
That's fair enough, but if they've completely gone back as if nothing has happened, then I guess it only makes it more likely that, when exactly the same thing happens again in the future, we'll be ill-prepared.

One thing — having just been in Japan, I can categorically say that describing it as Japanese-style culture is false. There were notably more sick people out and about.
I suppose this is for another thread but I don't think you can say that categorically based on your personal experience. For a start who deliberately tries to guess who around them in public is ill? Seems very unlikely that you did this.
 

Cdd89

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For a start who deliberately tries to guess who around them in public is ill? Seems very unlikely that you did this.
Obviously there is no conclusive test for any individual person (and you’re right, I didn’t try to guess on a person by person basis, that would be weird!) but collectively the amount of coughing/sniffing/sneezing seemed higher than the UK. I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial observation :smile:
 

route101

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I am more likely not to come into the office now if I'm coughing and spluttering.
 

Lloyds siding

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One ongoing effect is that many shops/outlets have not returned to previous opening regimes. Many of the local hairdressers, cafes, chip shops and specialist shops now only open Wednesday to Saturday. Monday especially looks like a Sunday with few places open.
 

Enthusiast

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Assuming the customers aren't attending in person, as they mostly won't be for office roles, it's neither here nor there to them.
Not quite. I am a customer of quite a number of office-based companies whose premises I never attend in person. Some of them (I would hazard a guess at the majority of those I have needed to contact) provide appalling customer service as a direct result of WFH (for example, the lady in a bank's "call centre" who I finally got through to after 45 mins of listening to inane music, to be told she had to break off because it had started raining and she had to get the washing in). Most of them answer customers' calls with "We're experiencing an exceptionally high number of calls etc." They're not, they're employing an exceptionally low number of staff or a number who are not working as productively as they might. Then there's the question of whether tasks needing "collaborative" work are best done by people working remotely. They may not be and the end result may be worse service for customers.

All of this is a matter for management. But many managers seem to have abrogated their responsibilities towards their customers and acquiesced to staff demands to work from home. Most of this is a direct hangover from the pandemic.
 

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Personally I think that a more Japanese-like culture of staying conscientiously out of other people's way if you're aware you're infectious with a cold would be overall a benefit to society. A handful of days per year at most are a sensible sacrifice. Obviously lots of people here will disagree with that.
Having worked in Japan I believe this to be incorrect. There is a 'presenteeism' culture in many Japanese workplaces, which leads to people attending work (wearing a mask) when they really shouldn't.

Japan has many good things to offer, but this is not one of them.
 

Bletchleyite

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Not quite. I am a customer of quite a number of office-based companies whose premises I never attend in person. Some of them (I would hazard a guess at the majority of those I have needed to contact) provide appalling customer service as a direct result of WFH (for example, the lady in a bank's "call centre" who I finally got through to after 45 mins of listening to inane music, to be told she had to break off because it had started raining and she had to get the washing in). Most of them answer customers' calls with "We're experiencing an exceptionally high number of calls etc." They're not, they're employing an exceptionally low number of staff or a number who are not working as productively as they might. Then there's the question of whether tasks needing "collaborative" work are best done by people working remotely. They may not be and the end result may be worse service for customers.

All of this is a matter for management. But many managers seem to have abrogated their responsibilities towards their customers and acquiesced to staff demands to work from home. Most of this is a direct hangover from the pandemic.

I think this is a combination of bad management and companies realising they can get away with bad service (e.g. not having a telephone number) due to the pandemic.

It's incredibly easy to manage call centre staff remotely. There's software to do it.
 

najaB

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Some of them (I would hazard a guess at the majority of those I have needed to contact) provide appalling customer service as a direct result of WFH...
Proof? They likely have genuine staffing issues, every contact centre in my area is struggling to get staff.
for example, the lady in a bank's "call centre" who I finally got through to after 45 mins of listening to inane music, to be told she had to break off because it had started raining and she had to get the washing in.
That is a management issue. Behaviour like that should be picked up on random call monitoring.
 

AM9

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Most of them answer customers' calls with "We're experiencing an exceptionally high number of calls etc." They're not, they're employing an exceptionally low number of staff or a number who are not working as productively as they might..
Although to be fair, many companies started that during the credit crisis over 10 years ago. The message has been routinely played out 24/7 as well, irrespective of how long callers have to wait. crisis
My GP's practice has however replaced their in-house queuing system since COVID-19 began with a facility that obviously runs in the exchange. There's no way that the number of lines to support a 50 caller queue could be accommodated on the installed lines to the surgery.
 

AlterEgo

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One ongoing effect is that many shops/outlets have not returned to previous opening regimes. Many of the local hairdressers, cafes, chip shops and specialist shops now only open Wednesday to Saturday. Monday especially looks like a Sunday with few places open.
Where in the country is this?
 

ainsworth74

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I think this is a combination of bad management and companies realising they can get away with bad service (e.g. not having a telephone number) due to the pandemic.
Where I work we've noticed an uptick in the number of calls we're getting and that we're getting from other agencies. One of the running theories we've got for this is that it feels like we're one of the few places in our line of work locally that answer the phone. A lot of other places you go straight to voicemail and get a call back in two or three days(!). Word gets around that Organisation A answers their phone, or if they don't calls you back within often within minutes, whilst Organisations B, C, D, etc never answer and may or may not ever call you back.

So it's a blessing and a curse for us. Looks great on our stats as we're busy as anything, but gosh we're busy as anything and it's a bit knackering :lol:
 

Crossover

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My GP's practice has however replaced their in-house queuing system since COVID-19 began with a facility that obviously runs in the exchange. There's no way that the number of lines to support a 50 caller queue could be accommodated on the installed lines to the surgery.
Evolving technology - many phone systems now run in the cloud and even for those that don't, the old ISDN lines of yore are being phased out in favour of SIP* trunking (basically a phone "line" over an Internet connection)

For over 7 years, at work, we ran a system on-prem which had 15 phone lines via a SIP trunk, but could be increased with a few button clicks (I think we did increase from 10 to 15 at one point). We now have a cloud hosted system for our Group of companies - over 350 active extensions - I don't actually know how many external "phone lines" we have, but it is a limit we have never hit!

*to abide by forum rules regarding acronyms, it stands for Session Initiation Protocol...not that it means anything vaguely useful in this context!
 

AM9

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Evolving technology - many phone systems now run in the cloud and even for those that don't, the old ISDN lines of yore are being phased out in favour of SIP* trunking (basically a phone "line" over an Internet connection)

For over 7 years, at work, we ran a system on-prem which had 15 phone lines via a SIP trunk, but could be increased with a few button clicks (I think we did increase from 10 to 15 at one point). We now have a cloud hosted system for our Group of companies - over 350 active extensions - I don't actually know how many external "phone lines" we have, but it is a limit we have never hit!

*to abide by forum rules regarding acronyms, it stands for Session Initiation Protocol...not that it means anything vaguely useful in this context!
I think that the surgery had a conventional PBX until the early days of the pandemic. There were comapratively few calls then (I and many others used Patient Access to book appointments plus there was always the opportunity to drop in and ask the desk). Then with the first 'stay at home' period it was rapidly changed to what it is now. Judging by the way that the queue lengthens in the first 5 seconds of it opening at 08:30, the calls must be intercepted somewhere in the (virtual) 01727 exchange. Call a few seconds later and I can be at the wrong end of a 50+ queue. There's still a 1:30 list of announcements as well, before the irritating music starts.
 

Crossover

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I think that the surgery had a conventional PBX until the early days of the pandemic. There were comapratively few calls then (I and many others used Patient Access to book appointments plus there was always the opportunity to drop in and ask the desk). Then with the first 'stay at home' period it was rapidly changed to what it is now. Judging by the way that the queue lengthens in the first 5 seconds of it opening at 08:30, the calls must be intercepted somewhere in the (virtual) 01727 exchange. Call a few seconds later and I can be at the wrong end of a 50+ queue. There's still a 1:30 list of announcements as well, before the irritating music starts.
It may just be coincidence that it tied in with the pandemic, but the demise of the old phone lines has been in progress for a good few years now so they may have had plans afoot (possibly hurried along by the need for mor ephone calls from March 2020)

The likelihood is that the phone system they have can just handle a lot of calls at the same time. Geographic areas are a thing of the past with SIP trunks and a business can have phone numbers from anywhere in the world. Our system alone services at least 20 locations across the country, with their own area codes
 

Cdd89

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It occurs to me that one ‘odd’ remaining effect of the Covid emergency is that the vaccines are still treated like they are precious jewels in short supply to be rationed and controlled by the government.

I have no personal wish for additional jabs, but I certainly predicted they would become available for all to purchase at Boots etc, and it’s peculiar to me that hasn’t happened yet.
 

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It occurs to me that one ‘odd’ remaining effect of the Covid emergency is that the vaccines are still treated like they are precious jewels in short supply to be rationed and controlled by the government.

I have no personal wish for additional jabs, but I certainly predicted they would become available for all to purchase at Boots etc, and it’s peculiar to me that hasn’t happened yet.

I would personally like to purchase one every 6-12 months or so, and so would agree - I had expected that too.
 

najaB

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It occurs to me that one ‘odd’ remaining effect of the Covid emergency is that the vaccines are still treated like they are precious jewels in short supply to be rationed and controlled by the government.
I think they're still in somewhat short supply still. Don't forget that there are several billion people in the world.
 
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