Remaining Effects of Covid

[Lloyds siding]

Where in the country is this?

Merseyside

 

[matt]

The mask debate has been done extensively previously so as per the opening post we'd rather we don't discuss it again. This also applies to signage and messaging about masks. Thanks.

 

[MikeWM]

The Empire cinema chain have so far retained their covid-era policy of not taking cash payments in their cinemas, either for tickets or concessions - the only reason given for this on their website is to 'help prevent the spread of covid-19' (yes, it still says that!).

I guess they don't want business from children, or those whose only means of payment is cash. They won't be getting mine, either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Empire cinema chain have so far retained their covid-era policy of not taking cash payments in their cinemas, either for tickets or concessions - the only reason given for this on their website is to 'help prevent the spread of covid-19' (yes, it still says that!).

I guess they don't want business from children, or those whose only means of payment is cash. They won't be getting mine, either.

A lot of children have GoHenry cards and the likes, and you can now have an actual debit card (online authorisation only type*) from age 13 I believe. Relatively few kids under 13 will be going to the cinema alone. And parents have the option of prepurchasing tickets for them online - most cinema tickets these days are sold in advance.

* Which used to be a problem but now isn't - about the only place cards are taken without authorisation these days is on board an aircraft, and I don't think low cost airlines even allow unaccompanied children.

 

[MikeWM]

A lot of children have GoHenry cards and the likes, and you can now have an actual debit card (online authorisation only type*) from age 13 I believe. Relatively few kids under 13 will be going to the cinema alone. And parents have the option of prepurchasing tickets for them online - most cinema tickets these days are sold in advance.

All true, but none of that strikes me as a reason not to accept cash for people who, for whatever reason, prefer to pay that way. If nothing else, it is much easier to give a child a £10 note as a treat than setting up any of these alternatives. You're probably teaching them a lot more about managing money by doing that too.

In addition, while tickets may be mostly sold in advance, concessions usually are an impulse purpose, and a quick look at Empire's twitter feed shows a number of people rather unhappy that eg. their child went to the cinema and couldn't buy a bottle of water on a hot day because they weren't accepting cash. Though looks like the number of complaints isn't enough for Empire to actually do anything about it; as such, I'll be voting with my feet and avoiding them. If nothing else the fact that they're still justifying this policy as related to Covid, rather than just being honest and saying that it is something they want to do, is irritating.

Most other cinemas chains still accept cash. Maybe there is a slight hint of reluctance about it, but they still do nevertheless.

 

[island]

They will have run the numbers and concluded that the very modest amount in lost sales to those who choose not to pay by card – and yes it is "choose", anyone old enough to go to the cinema on their own is old enough to have a debit card – are outweighed by the savings in staff time, reduction of robbery and embezzlement risks, bank charges, and so on. Teaching children about money is not the cinema's job.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The Empire cinema chain have so far retained their covid-era policy of not taking cash payments in their cinemas, either for tickets or concessions - the only reason given for this on their website is to 'help prevent the spread of covid-19' (yes, it still says that!).

This is an entirely stupid excuse. Why not just tell the truth and say that it's much cheaper to accept electronic payments only?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is an entirely stupid excuse. Why not just tell the truth and say that it's much cheaper to accept electronic payments only?

Same reason as every customer-unfriendly measure in airports is generally "for security reasons" even when it isn't really. Because it is a convenient lie that people mostly accept.

 

[route101]

Burger King are cash only, quite a few places dont have anyone at the till and direct you to self order machines.

 

[Darandio]

Burger King are cash only, quite a few places dont have anyone at the till and direct you to self order machines.

Depends which branch. Any i've used in the last 6 months now take cash again, even at the couple i've used at service stations.

 

[Hadders]

If nothing else, it is much easier to give a child a £10 note as a treat than setting up any of these alternatives.

Not in my experience. Children I know want it on their GoHenry card!

 

[Bald Rick]

Burger King are cash only, quite a few places dont have anyone at the till and direct you to self order machines.

Surely you mean card only?

 

[MikeWM]

Not in my experience. Children I know want it on their GoHenry card!

*shrugs* - perhaps children like their parents being notified of every purchase they make, being prevented from buying certain categories of items, and using biometric identification when buying things.

Doesn't sound much like what children were like when I was growing up, but maybe the new generation is being suitably trained (or indoctrinated) for when all transactions will be like that for adults too, with the government playing the role of the 'caring' parent, with cash abolished and all transactions done with CBDCs.

The relentless acceleration towards that may well be a rather unfortunate lasting after-effect of covid - it was going to happen anyway, but covid has managed to bring it forward a few years.

 

[Bikeman78]

Call a few seconds later and I can be at the wrong end of a 50+ queue. There's still a 1:30 list of announcements as well, before the irritating music starts.

My GP surgery has 2:07 of recorded waffle before one gets through to a person. I tried to sign up to the App to book appointments online, but it turns out they still had my previous address on file, despite four attempts over two years to get it changed. The fifth was today. Fingers crossed.

 

[najaB]

perhaps children like their parents being notified of every purchase they make, being prevented from buying certain categories of items, and using biometric identification when buying things.

Biometrics?

 

[MikeWM]

Biometrics?

Their homepage - https://www.gohenry.com/uk/, about half-way down, under the rather tedious heading 'Built for their safety - and your confidence' - says that one of the apparent benefits of having the card is 'Fingerprint and facial recognition'.

Not entirely clear what that is referring to, but I'm guessing it is about adding the GoHenry card to an Apple/Android phone, in much the same way some people do with adult credit/debit cards.

 

[najaB]

Their homepage - https://www.gohenry.com/uk/, about half-way down, under the rather tedious heading 'Built for their safety - and your confidence' - says that one of the apparent benefits of having the card is 'Fingerprint and facial recognition'.

Not entirely clear what that is referring to, but I'm guessing it is about adding the GoHenry card to an Apple/Android phone, in much the same way some people do with adult credit/debit cards.

So almost certainly a non issue, since you don't have to add the card to a phone.

 

[MikeWM]

So almost certainly a non issue, since you don't have to add the card to a phone.

*For now*, yes. But a couple of years ago, you didn't have to have such a card at all because you could use cash instead - but now, if you want to go to Empire Cinemas, that no longer applies. Not hard to anticipate that the GoHenry card (and indeed all credit/debit cards) may be changed to be 'phone-only' in the future in place of a physical card - in much the same way that Odeon's Limitless card was previously a physical card but since covid is only issued by phone app (and if you don't have a suitable Apple/Android phone, or don't wish to use one in that way for whatever reason, you can't use the scheme anymore).

 

[najaB]

*For now*, yes. But a couple of years ago, you didn't have to have such a card at all because you could use cash instead - but now, if you want to go to Empire Cinemas, that no longer applies

Yes. Things change. That's how the passage of time works.

 

[Bletchleyite]

*For now*, yes. But a couple of years ago, you didn't have to have such a card at all because you could use cash instead - but now, if you want to go to Empire Cinemas, that no longer applies. Not hard to anticipate that the GoHenry card (and indeed all credit/debit cards) may be changed to be 'phone-only' in the future in place of a physical card - in much the same way that Odeon's Limitless card was previously a physical card but since covid is only issued by phone app (and if you don't have a suitable Apple/Android phone, or don't wish to use one in that way for whatever reason, you can't use the scheme anymore).

For those Odeon cards it makes a lot of sense because most cinema visits are booked in advance these days, so it is more a discount attached to a booking account. Cineworld still do the physical cards, and juggling it alongside your ticket and refreshments to get in is an utter pain. You only need the actual "card" for Odeon if turning up and buying.

I don't see why they don't allow it to be printed as a PDF if you really must, though, it's just a QR code.

 

[DelayRepay]

*For now*, yes. But a couple of years ago, you didn't have to have such a card at all because you could use cash instead - but now, if you want to go to Empire Cinemas, that no longer applies. Not hard to anticipate that the GoHenry card (and indeed all credit/debit cards) may be changed to be 'phone-only' in the future in place of a physical card - in much the same way that Odeon's Limitless card was previously a physical card but since covid is only issued by phone app (and if you don't have a suitable Apple/Android phone, or don't wish to use one in that way for whatever reason, you can't use the scheme anymore).

I agree that we are moving towards a cashless society, and we can argue whether that's a good or bad thing. In fact, that argument has been played out many times on this forum, both in general discussions and more specifically linked to the use of e-tickets and ticket office closures on the railways.

But to bring this back to the topic, I don't think this is a 'remaining effect of Covid'. The trend started years ago, when debit cards became contactless. Data shows that a big driver of the adoption of contactless was TfL starting to accept it in London, followed by their decision not to accept cash on buses. I think there was a period when TfL accounted for 10% of all contactless transactions in the UK. And as people got used to tapping their card, it spread to paying for other low value items like a takeaway coffee. And the limits started to increase from the initial £10. All this happened long before Covid. Even without the pandemic, we would have reached a point where businesses decided that the number of customers paying by cash didn't cover the costs associated with handling the cash.

I don't think it will be long before a physical card becomes an optional extra on a bank account, a bit like a chequebook is for most banks. This isn't driven by Covid either, it's driven by the banks trying to cut costs, and an attempt to appear 'green' by using less plastic.

I think Covid accelerated changes that would have happened anyway (and this applies to greater adoption of home and hybrid working, and online shopping, etc). But Covid didn't cause these changes.

 

[DustyBin]

Yes. Things change. That's how the passage of time works.

Not all change is positive though, and the downsides aren't always apparent until it's too late. The move away from cash is happening, and will possibly lead to a CBDC. None of us know whether that will bring with it increased state interference, but it would certainly make it easier. In my opinion, it should be made clear that this would be unacceptable, without resorting to outright conspiracy theories (as there's no need). I do find the apathy around this kind of thing slightly concerning to be honest.

 

[MikeWM]

Yes. Things change. That's how the passage of time works.

But the point is that things tended to *improve* when they changed, at least if they were intended to replace something that already existed and worked perfectly well. The 'improvements' offered by entirely removing the option to pay with cash are entirely one-sided, and not in the favour of the general public.

--

For those Odeon cards it makes a lot of sense because most cinema visits are booked in advance these days, so it is more a discount attached to a booking account. Cineworld still do the physical cards, and juggling it alongside your ticket and refreshments to get in is an utter pain.

In my experience, it is much harder to juggle a phone and get it onto the right app to show the right thing, than it is to produce a small piece of plastic from your wallet. I've posted on here before about how I find getting past the gate box now takes much longer than it did 10 years ago because instead of the two seconds of 'attendant looks at cardboard/paper ticket, tears it, tells you to go to screen two', many people in the queue are now spending literally minutes trying to find the right thing on their phone, often with the attendant trying to help them out, blocking the queue to get in.

--

I think Covid accelerated changes that would have happened anyway (and this applies to greater adoption of home and hybrid working, and online shopping, etc). But Covid didn't cause these changes.

Entirely agree, I've made the same point on here a number of times. And not all those things are negative - I doubt I'd ever have considered home working until I was forced into it, and now I rather like doing two days a week from home, so I'm not denying there are some positives.

But it shouldn't be surprising to us that people who wanted to push their own specific agendas saw covid as an ideal opportunity to do so, and did so, and continue to do so.

 

[najaB]

But the point is that things tended to *improve* when they changed, at least if they were intended to replace something that already existed and worked perfectly well. The 'improvements' offered by entirely removing the option to pay with cash are entirely one-sided, and not in the favour of the general public.

It's important to make the distinction between "people" and "the public".

With the prevalence of electronic and particularly contactless payment I probably use physical cash less than once a month. The same goes for the majority of people I interact with, and I dare say it is the same for the general public at large.

Is that to say that there aren't people who use cash (almost) exclusively? No, of course not. Some do so out of choice, others out of circumstance. While we need to be cognisant of their needs, you can't criticise businesses that have come to the conclusion that continuing to serve that decreasing proportion of their customer base will result in higher costs for the business - which may well feed through to higher costs for the majority of their customers.

Instead of trying to hold back the tide, we should focus our efforts and attention on making it easier for those who aren't able to use electronic payment methods to do so.

 

[MikeWM]

Instead of trying to hold back the tide, we should focus our efforts and attention on making it easier for those who aren't able to use electronic payment methods to do so.

Probably unsurprisingly I don't agree with this at all - those unable or unwilling to use electronic payment methods already have a perfectly good payment method available, which businesses have accepted for centuries, and I see no good reason they shouldn't continue to do so - but I think perhaps we're straying too far from covid effects to continue this discussion in this thread.

 

[Cloud Strife]

you can't criticise businesses that have come to the conclusion that continuing to serve that decreasing proportion of their customer base will result in higher costs for the business - which may well feed through to higher costs for the majority of their customers.

I have an example, although from Poland rather than the UK.

I don't accept cash payments at all. It's either bank transfer or card payments or nothing. I don't feel any need to accommodate people who want to pay in cash, because it results in considerable extra expenses for me: I need to pay to deposit the cash, I need to take it to the nearest cash machine affiliated to my bank, etc etc. I also don't buy anything in cash, and I don't use cash for any business expenses whatsoever. Even if I'm photocopying something for the equal of about 20p, I'm using the company bank card.

The tax office are also much happier if you avoid cash payments of any sort. So, it's a win-win for me to use electronic payments only. Perhaps a handful of clients over the past few years have been annoyed at the lack of cash payments, but the savings are such that I really don't need their business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not all change is positive though, and the downsides aren't always apparent until it's too late. The move away from cash is happening, and will possibly lead to a CBDC. None of us know whether that will bring with it increased state interference, but it would certainly make it easier. In my opinion, it should be made clear that this would be unacceptable, without resorting to outright conspiracy theories (as there's no need). I do find the apathy around this kind of thing slightly concerning to be honest.

I don't get the need for a Central Bank Digital Currency when almost all my financial transactions are already "digital" via existing means. It seems a gimmick but would also change almost nothing for me as I am very close to cash free anyway, only the local chippy keeps me carrying any cash.

In my experience, it is much harder to juggle a phone and get it onto the right app to show the right thing, than it is to produce a small piece of plastic from your wallet. I've posted on here before about how I find getting past the gate box now takes much longer than it did 10 years ago because instead of the two seconds of 'attendant looks at cardboard/paper ticket, tears it, tells you to go to screen two', many people in the queue are now spending literally minutes trying to find the right thing on their phone, often with the attendant trying to help them out, blocking the queue to get in

Though don't forget that before there would have been another queue to purchase that paper ticket.

I think you'll find most of those confused people use Android, and for that I blame Google for not adopting the PKPASS format. However, uptake of Google Wallet's proprietory format does seem to be increasing and may solve the issue. With a decent digital wallet function on your phone as iOS has there's no faff, the relevant passes pop up on screen when you reach the applicable place or time, you literally just turn on your phone and tap one.

Probably unsurprisingly I don't agree with this at all - those unable or unwilling to use electronic payment methods already have a perfectly good payment method available, which businesses have accepted for centuries, and I see no good reason they shouldn't continue to do so

Nobody is banning or seeking to ban cash. If businesses don't want to take it and customers don't protest, it just goes away naturally. Particularly since COVID the majority don't wish to pay cash and businesses don't wish to take it. That's what business calls a "win win situation" other than for an increasingly small number of refuseniks.

 

[Bald Rick]

The 'improvements' offered by entirely removing the option to pay with cash are entirely one-sided, and not in the favour of the general public.

if the improvements were not in favour of the general public, the general public would vote with its feet / wallets.

Personally I find paying by card / phone so much easier than cash. In the last 3 years I’ve used cash less than 20 times; once in a car park in Wales, all the other times at my Barbers. Not only is it much easier for all transactions, I now don’t get holes in my pockets That need repairing either. The benefits keep on piling up!

 

[Watershed]

if the improvements were not in favour of the general public, the general public would vote with its feet / wallets.

Personally I find paying by card / phone so much easier than cash. In the last 3 years I’ve used cash less than 20 times; once in a car park in Wales, all the other times at my Barbers. Not only is it much easier for all transactions, I now don’t get holes in my pockets That need repairing either. The benefits keep on piling up!

You only cut your hair twice in three years?

I do find myself using cash more often than that, but I think some of that is perhaps a regional/southeast thing.

 

[Bald Rick]

You only cut your hair twice in three years?

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