Reopening of Clifton-Patricroft line (Black Harry tunnel railway)

[Philip]

Just wondering if there may be a good case to look at reopening the route between Patricroft and Clifton Junction, as a means to reduce the number of trains passing through Ordsall Junction? A new junction would be built to the south of Clifton Station, joining the present line from the west, as opposed to underneath and joining the East Lancs line as it did originally. Service from Liverpool could then run via Salford Crescent into Manchester Victoria.

The line seems to be mainly still intact, with the obvious major hurdle being the Clifton Hall/Black Harry Tunnel, although I don't know what state this is in away from the part that has collapsed.

 

[vidal]

Just wondering if there may be a good case to look at reopening the route between Patricroft and Clifton Junction, as a means to reduce the number of trains passing through Ordsall Junction? A new junction would be built to the south of Clifton Station, joining the present line from the west, as opposed to underneath and joining the East Lancs line as it did originally. Service from Liverpool could then run via Salford Crescent into Manchester Victoria.

The line seems to be mainly still intact, with the obvious major hurdle being the Clifton Hall/Black Harry Tunnel, although I don't know what state this is in away from the part that has collapsed.

The tunnel was in a dreadful state when still open, very wet with failing brick arch work. The collapse was over many yards and the tunnel was then infilled afterwards with mining spoil and concrete. Sadly not a viable option to reopen.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the collapse was linked to wartime storage of chlorine tankers and gas leakage? I seem to recall that the Chlorine was stored there in rail tankers during bombing raids.

James

 

[Tomnick]

The tunnel was in a dreadful state when still open, very wet with failing brick arch work. The collapse was over many yards and the tunnel was then infilled afterwards with mining spoil and concrete. Sadly not a viable option to reopen.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the collapse was linked to wartime storage of chlorine tankers and gas leakage? I seem to recall that the Chlorine was stored there in rail tankers during bombing raids.

James

The collapse was caused by the material in an infilled construction shaft increasingly bearing down on the arch as a concealed timber structure slowly decayed, iirc. It appeared to have been a troublesome tunnel but I don’t think there was much wrong with the brickwork other than around a couple of other shafts?

 

[Ianno87]

Just wondering if there may be a good case to look at reopening the route between Patricroft and Clifton Junction, as a means to reduce the number of trains passing through Ordsall Junction? A new junction would be built to the south of Clifton Station, joining the present line from the west, as opposed to underneath and joining the East Lancs line as it did originally. Service from Liverpool could then run via Salford Crescent into Manchester Victoria.

The line seems to be mainly still intact, with the obvious major hurdle being the Clifton Hall/Black Harry Tunnel, although I don't know what state this is in away from the part that has collapsed.

Grade separating Ordsall Lane is probably cheaper (both in up front cost and the length of alignment to then maintime). And be less impactful on journey times.

Having aaid that, westward connectivity from Salford Crescent would be useful if it were easy to do.

 

[bramling]

Just wondering if there may be a good case to look at reopening the route between Patricroft and Clifton Junction, as a means to reduce the number of trains passing through Ordsall Junction? A new junction would be built to the south of Clifton Station, joining the present line from the west, as opposed to underneath and joining the East Lancs line as it did originally. Service from Liverpool could then run via Salford Crescent into Manchester Victoria.

The line seems to be mainly still intact, with the obvious major hurdle being the Clifton Hall/Black Harry Tunnel, although I don't know what state this is in away from the part that has collapsed.

The tunnel is believed to have caused problems more recently, with continuing signs of subsidence in various places. Some time in the last decade or so a building subsided and had to be purchased by BRB(R), with the building then being demolished, and shaft on top of which it sat infilled, and then the site redeveloped.

I suspect there remains a concern that whilst the tunnel was infilled after the original mishap, experience has shown that infill has a nasty habit of settling over time, leaving a void. There are photos on the internet of Bolsover tunnel which was infilled in a similar fashion to Black Harry and where the infill has settled quite heavily in places, assuming the infill was ever done fully to top-of-arch level.

I suspect we haven't heard the last of Black Harry Tunnel, and I bet it's a continuing headache for its owners, however I suspect all these issues mean any chance of re-opening it are minimal at best.

 

[bramling]

The collapse was caused by the material in an infilled construction shaft increasingly bearing down on the arch as a concealed timber structure slowly decayed, iirc. It appeared to have been a troublesome tunnel but I don’t think there was much wrong with the brickwork other than around a couple of other shafts?

The following comes from a consultant report into the more recent issues with the tunnel:

"A key reason for the original collapse was the poor, unusual brickwork configuration of the tunnel lining, which has likely deteriorated significantly over time. When considering the potential condition of the tunnel, it is recommended that only conservative assessments are made. The areas above Clifton Hall Tunnel should continue to be monitored closely for the possibility of emerging defects"

Having said that, this doesn't quite square up as my understanding is the original incident was, as you say, the result of the shaft timber decaying and imposing a load that the lining was unable to bear.

All I can say is I'm glad I don't own the tunnel as it seems to be a continuing massive liability!

 

[randyrippley]

Just reading the reports of that collapse, a real horror story of planning and engineering failure and stupidity.
A tunnel driven through a mix of sand and clay marl with insufficient support for the roof.
Eight vertical access shafts which were filled in after construction with sand over wooden platforms. These shafts were built over, and their locations lost when the documentation was destroyed during the war in a raid.
On top of that there was subsidence in the tunnel due to an underlying coal mine.
I don't think you'd ever stand a chance of reopening it.

It seems that one of the timber platforms gave way, allowing ~200 tons of sand infill to bear directly onto the brick arch, collapsing it - and taking a few houses into the void

Local fire brigade report and plans
https://www.ife.org.uk/Firefighter-Safety-Incidents/1953-clifton-hall-tunnel/39949

PDF of the Accident report downloadable from here
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=944

An overview
http://www.forgottenrelics.co.uk/tunnels/cliftonhallcollapse.html

 

[Philip]

Could the tunnel be opened out into a cutting? Doesn't strike me as being particularly deep.

I take it there were no ventilation shafts then?

 

[Tomnick]

Could the tunnel be opened out into a cutting? Doesn't strike me as being particularly deep.

I take it there were no ventilation shafts then?

It's not enormously deep as tunnels go, but there's quite a bit of development over the top of it (or close enough that it'd probably be in the way of what would still be a relatively deep cutting). I'm far from convinced by the benefits anyway - it just transfers the conflicts to Salford Crescent, where there's already a number of conflicts and the bottleneck of a busy station. Ordsall Lane must be one of the less congested junctions in the area, and one of the easier ones to provide grade separation, almost certainly at significantly less cost than trying to open out a mile or so of infilled tunnel!

 

[apk55]

Of all the railway reopening schemes this is probably the most crazy.
The railway was probably built mainly because of politics because of arguments between the Manchester Bury and Rossendale railway (later ELR) who had the line from Clifton Junction to Bury and Accrington and the Manchester and Bolton railway (later L&Y railway), who controlled access to Manchester. (This resulted in the battle of Clifton Junction in 1849.) Therefore they would have wanted an alternative southern outlet so this line was built to give independent access to the Liverpool and Manchester Railway.

 

[randyrippley]

Could the tunnel be opened out into a cutting? Doesn't strike me as being particularly deep.

I take it there were no ventilation shafts then?

There were eight access shafts, all capped with sand supported by wooden platforms - and the locations lost.
Buildings/houses are on top of the tunnel. And you've got subsidence of the track bed due to coal mines. Not very promising as a reopening

 

[Dr_Paul]

An overview -- http://www.forgottenrelics.co.uk/tunnels/cliftonhallcollapse.html

A remarkable story -- a new one for me.

 

[billio]

About 1966 I used to travel to work from Bury to Clifton Junction and back again. The pair of tracks of the line towards "Black Harry Tunnel" were still visible when arriving at Clifton, looking forlorn and forgotten as they dived under the Bolton line. I didn't know the story behind this until I came across a passage in Robert Adley's book "Covering my tracks", pages 63 to 71.

 

[Cletus]

"Martin Zero" has done one of video exporations in the area.

 

[snail]

Fascinating stuff. I used to live near there so know the area well. The second part tells the story of the tunnel and gives some pretty good background on why reopening is a non-starter.