Reopenings

[Scousefandan]

In that case, the Merseyrail Northern Line should in theory be electrified to reach Wigan Wallgate in order to allow an alternative route to Liverpool. Wallgate seems like a natural terminus/boundary point for this line, however the spanner in the works could be GMPTE not being keen on Merseyrail branded services entering their territory

 

[jimrbrobinson]

There's a huge gap between stations on the Chat Moss Line though, from Patricroft/Eccles and then Newton le Willows...the line is quite far from Astley Village so there would have to be a connecting bus service, and I'm guessing Leigh wouldn't benefit much...it would have to built near Siddow Common or even Glazebrook to be of any use at all, and even the it doesn't even serve the edge of Leigh, it would effectively be serving Glazebury

I totally agree - I was in favour of the Kenyon Junction idea which to me seemed the fairest idea for everyone, and the most sensible in terms of bus and road access (they were talking about substantial parking facilities at the time also as an commuter option for both Manchester and Liverpool. Can't remember exactly how the parking would have been provided for so ambitious an aim though!

 

[Scousefandan]

lol I meant Glazebury :P

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How about a totally different reopening? Fort Augustus (from Fort William I think) was quipped 'the most pointless BL of all time' - LET'S REOPEN IT!!!!!

 

[yorksrob]

In that case, the Merseyrail Northern Line should in theory be electrified to reach Wigan Wallgate in order to allow an alternative route to Liverpool. Wallgate seems like a natural terminus/boundary point for this line, however the spanner in the works could be GMPTE not being keen on Merseyrail branded services entering their territory

Personally I think that would be a sensible idea regardless - and it shouldn’t be too much of a problem as the Merseyrail branded pacers seem to be quite common.

I totally agree - I was in favour of the Kenyon Junction idea which to me seemed the fairest idea for everyone, and the most sensible in terms of bus and road access (they were talking about substantial parking facilities at the time also as an commuter option for both Manchester and Liverpool. Can't remember exactly how the parking would have been provided for so ambitious an aim though!

I suppose it would be good for Liverpool connections - but for me it would still involve a change to a bus - which I do already from Atherton so it wouldn’t be much of an improvement.

 

[Scousefandan]

And then there's just the little problem of waterproofing the tunnel at Upholland, which is looking like the biggest barrier to through services to Liverpool from Wigan. Looking more likely is the electrification of the Wigan North Western-St Helens Central-Huyton-Liverpool service, although being on the City Line, wouldn't be operated by Merseyrail

 

[tbtc]

I'll be honest, I was against the Metro when they were converting the line from Altrincham through Stretford to Trafford Bar and on to Manchester, but it has grown on me over the years. I still think the trams look ugly though, and those new yellow ones are just plain hideous!

I thought they'd have got longer trams sorted out by now, something between the short Metrolink ones and EMUs

 

[Scousefandan]

How long would it take to travel by tram from Leigh to Manchester via Eccles? Longer than by train from Atherton, I'm guessing....Remember the Eccles branch shares some road space from Eccles town centre out to Weaste. I have been on the tram when it gets stuck in traffic...

 

[jimrbrobinson]

lol I meant Glazebury :P

Yeah, I frequently get them two the wrong way around, too!
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How about a totally different reopening? Fort Augustus (from Fort William I think) was quipped 'the most pointless BL of all time' - LET'S REOPEN IT!!!!!

NO!!!! That'd mean getting rid of one my favourite holiday places!!!!!!!!! Seriously, the Gairlochy Holiday Park is on the site of the old Gairlochy station on that line!!!!!! DON'T DO IT, please!!! :cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How long would it take to travel by tram from Leigh to Manchester via Eccles? Longer than by train from Atherton, I'm guessing....Remember the Eccles branch shares some road space from Eccles town centre out to Weaste. I have been on the tram when it gets stuck in traffic...

Gawd, that would be worse than torture. Probably take as long as the bus!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought they'd have got longer trams sorted out by now, something between the short Metrolink ones and EMUs

Longer trams??? You mean stick two two-car trams together end-to-end like they do on match days?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

NO!!!! That'd mean getting rid of one my favourite holiday places!!!!!!!!! Seriously, the Gairlochy Holiday Park is on the site of the old Gairlochy station on that line!!!!!! DON'T DO IT, please!!! :cry:

But it would be one of the most beautiful lines in Britain? I'll look that site up, sounds nice...

 

[jimrbrobinson]

But it would be one of the most beautiful lines in Britain? I'll look that site up, sounds nice...

The Subterranea Britannica entry has some before and photos of the place at Gairlochy and is found here: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/g/gairlochy/index.shtml.

I love the place, and try to get there when I can, though it's been a few years now.

 

[WatcherZero]

It would be hard but not impossible to extend the current Metrolink terminus from Eccles onwards, would involve the relocation of Eccles bus station however. The street running sections in Eccles are fairly fast as its mostly segregated and straight, the real slow section is the quays however because of density of stops and the number of sharp turns rises and descents. it takes 31 minutes from Eccles to Piccadilly station, an extension to Leigh would double the line length but probably add only another 20-25 minutes because past Eccles would be all segregated on former rail allignments with few stops. That compares with 35-40 minutes with one change from Atherton. Compares less favourably with Atherton-Victoria 26 minutes where tram would take same time as to Piccadilly but require a change. However the biggest boon I think would be Leigh residents access to Salford Quays/Trafford/South Manchester (where a number do work) where it would be 30m faster by tram than by train. What could make this more viable is if the Trafford Centre/Port of Trafford Metrolink line currently envisaged was built a spur from the Trafford Centre through Barton to Eccles would only take 5-8 minutes and give very speedy Eccles access to the Trafford Centre.

I dont think a Leigh-Kenyon Junction could work, the alignments nearly 100% built on in leigh itself and then outside leigh its now roads.

Best connectivity option may be a Eccles-Tydlsley-Wigan reinstatement of Wigan-Eccles line whose alignments completley intact just out of the centre of Eccles all the way to where it met the now WCML at Platt Bridge. With a delta just after Tyldsley would allow Leigh-Wigan, Leigh-Salford and Wigan-Salford direct services (maybe Wigan/Salford directs running via Leigh evenings and weekends). Then a new connection between this line and the Atherton line possibly going on to Bolton though that former alignments 100% built over in the urban areas of Bolton and Leigh so would have to be entirely new street running sections or alternative route found. But that would be end of the century kind of timescales.

 

[Scousefandan]

Yes, I live in Leigh, and a lot of local people visit the Trafford Centre. But because it's in the location it is, and Leigh is poorly served transport wise to the Centre, it's usually car owners who benefit most. There is a bus service from Leigh but it's not very frequent and finishes early in the evening which is incovenient for shop workers or people wishing to make an evening of it.

 

[crewmeal]

What about linking the old GWR route Stratford upon Avon and Cheltenham. Whilst the Gloucs & Warwick have preserved parts of the line, a proper link between the 2 towns would be brilliant and take some of the traffic off the A46.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be hard but not impossible to extend the current Metrolink terminus from Eccles onwards, would involve the relocation of Eccles bus station however. The street running sections in Eccles are fairly fast as its mostly segregated and straight, the real slow section is the quays however because of density of stops and the number of sharp turns rises and descents. it takes 31 minutes from Eccles to Piccadilly station, an extension to Leigh would double the line length but probably add only another 20-25 minutes because past Eccles would be all segregated on former rail allignments with few stops. That compares with 35-40 minutes with one change from Atherton. Compares less favourably with Atherton-Victoria 26 minutes where tram would take same time as to Piccadilly but require a change. However the biggest boon I think would be Leigh residents access to Salford Quays/Trafford/South Manchester (where a number do work) where it would be 30m faster by tram than by train. What could make this more viable is if the Trafford Centre/Port of Trafford Metrolink line currently envisaged was built a spur from the Trafford Centre through Barton to Eccles would only take 5-8 minutes and give very speedy Eccles access to the Trafford Centre.

I dont think a Leigh-Kenyon Junction could work, the alignments nearly 100% built on in leigh itself and then outside leigh its now roads.

Best connectivity option may be a Eccles-Tydlsley-Wigan reinstatement of Wigan-Eccles line whose alignments completley intact just out of the centre of Eccles all the way to where it met the now WCML at Platt Bridge. With a delta just after Tyldsley would allow Leigh-Wigan, Leigh-Salford and Wigan-Salford direct services (maybe Wigan/Salford directs running via Leigh evenings and weekends). Then a new connection between this line and the Atherton line possibly going on to Bolton though that former alignments 100% built over in the urban areas of Bolton and Leigh so would have to be entirely new street running sections or alternative route found. But that would be end of the century kind of timescales.

Yes, I agree - it's the sort of formation the tram would be ideal for. It's just the bendy bit around old trafford that might be a problem as you say. I Suppose it depends whether more people would need to get to the centre of Manchester, in which case a straight run into Victoria might be more useful or whether the slower route would attract more people than it put off.

With regard to the alignment in Leigh itself, I think you could get quite far in from the North East easily enough without street running, it's just if you want to continue out the other side that's the problem.

 

[LE Greys]

How about a totally different reopening? Fort Augustus (from Fort William I think) was quipped 'the most pointless BL of all time' - LET'S REOPEN IT!!!!!

Wouldn't be quite as pointless if they tried to achieve the aim of the original project, build a line right through the Great Glen from Fort William to Inverness. It's a major tourist route and has a major bus route running through it.

 

[Railsigns]

Wouldn't be quite as pointless if they tried to achieve the aim of the original project, build a line right through the Great Glen from Fort William to Inverness. It's a major tourist route and has a major bus route running through it.

While we're at it, we could reopen the Ballachulish branch as well and extend it right through to Fort William.

 

[LE Greys]

What about linking the old GWR route Stratford upon Avon and Cheltenham. Whilst the Gloucs & Warwick have preserved parts of the line, a proper link between the 2 towns would be brilliant and take some of the traffic off the A46.

The G/W is already driving on to Broadway. On the other side, I think the trackbed is mostly intact except for a short section of Severn Meadows Road in Stratford. Long Marston is on top of part of it, but there is room to go around. The most difficult problem will actually be crossing the main line at Honeybourne. I don't know if it is possible to get the line through Cheltenham to Malvern Road Junction, but that would turn the line into a through route and a good diversionary route for XC.
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While we're at it, we could reopen the Ballachulish branch as well and extend it right through to Fort William.

Oban-Inverness service, brilliant.

 

[furryfeet]

The most difficult problem will actually be crossing the main line at Honeybourne.

This is not a problem - Railtrack are allowing for the expansion of the preserved railway in their "Coltswold Redoubling" scheme.
The bridge over the old trackbed will be rebuilt for double track and passive provision is being made at Honeybourne for the preserved railway to eventually re-use the old island platform.

As stated, the real problems are at the Stratford end, where a nine foot wide strip has been left for the possible re-instatement of the railway and even more at Cheltenham where a bridge has been lowered and a supermarket car park covers the formation.

 

[Invincibles]

The Cheltenham end is a bit of a problem with the Waitrose, but it does look like you could squeeze the line back in. It would seem a shame to demolish the footbridge that has been built but I suppose if it was really seen as a good idea to reopen the line then that would not be the biggest obstacle.

If HS2 gets built then Leicester to Rugby would be good, make use of some of the capacity that would emerge on the classic WCML and provide more useful links from Leicester to Northampton and MK

 

[furryfeet]

Has anyone worked out what Cambridge to Haverhill would cost ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Has anyone worked out what Cambridge to Haverhill would cost ?

In money?

 

[furryfeet]

yes, in money, but also in terms of rolling stock.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

yes, in money, but also in terms of rolling stock.

If done now - maybe £100m (random guess), when any govt etc can be bothered to do anything about it £100,000,000,000,000,000

 

[LE Greys]

If HS2 gets built then Leicester to Rugby would be good, make use of some of the capacity that would emerge on the classic WCML and provide more useful links from Leicester to Northampton and MK

If there is some way around Rugby, the GCR alignment is virtually intact, but then so is the old LSWR alignment. Personally, I would go for the GCR version, crossing the Nuneaton-Leicester route at Whetstone, just east of the M1 Possibly have a junction there (although the LSWR route would be easier, connecting at the old junction at Wigston). However, I would prefer to combine it with a connection to the Ashby de la Zouch route, thus linking that to Leicester and completing the Ivanhoe Line. I don't know enough about Midland freight flows to know if it would abstract much traffic from the MML, but there would be a chance to link up a passenger route from Oxford to Nottingham via Leicester, Rugby and Bletchley. Of course, it would be even better to send the line through Brackley and Woodford, but we can't have everything.

 

[Bish Boy]

Anfield plain, Shield Row, Beamish, Birtly up over the A1 linking to the leamside line, would require that to reopen first like lmao

 

[PR1Berske]

Reopen the line from Lostock Hall to the Ormskirk branch, get at least one Burscough Curve reopened, and BINGO, instant profit. New station at the bridge over Penwortham Way, everyone's a winner.





Well, "instant"........and "profit".........and "winner"

 

[jopsuk]

Has anyone worked out what Cambridge to Haverhill would cost ?

Would you terminate at Haverhill or link all the way to Sudbury? Include the intermediate stations or not?

 

[Fred26]

Would you terminate at Haverhill or link all the way to Sudbury? Include the intermediate stations or not?

Personally, I'd run it all the way back to Sudbury. I don't know much about the stations between Sudbury and Cambridge, but I'd then run a limited stop hourly service between Colechester and Cambridge, calling at Sudbury (possibly Long Melford) and Haverhill only. An all-stops service would also run, meaning Sudbury, (Long Melford), and Haverhill would have two trains per hour to Cambridge and Colchester.

That's very much a line I'd love to see reopen.

 

[AndyJB]

Bodmin-Padstow
An extension of the Bodmin and Wenford.

Sadly, unlikely to happen - small sections of it may reopen, but the attempts to have a section of the line reopened to get china-clay lorries off Cornwall's highly unsuited (to HGV's) roads and back onto rail were dropped due to strong oposition from cyclists, since the trackbed now forms the Camel Trail.

Strongly suspect that the Bodmin & Wenford may have the same problem if they attempt expansion.

The Portishead branch should be a contender in my opinion - it's an ever growing town and it's fairly ridiculous that it's rail link to Bristol hasn't been re-established.