Reservations - do you HAVE to sit in a reserved seat?

[nuneatonmark]

Are you allowed to beat with baseball bat any idiots who won't move out of a seat that has clearly been reserved by oneself and who try to make it appear that you're at fault not them?

 

[GarethC]

With regards to sitting in reserved seats, I personally would prefer it if on cheap advanced tickets passengers were not issued a reservation for a seat and tickets were just issued with a quota per train to ensure it wouldn't be oversold if lots of seats were reserved. If you want a reservation you should be paying for it.

ATW do this with their advance tickets. You have to call them or visit the station to actually get a reservation (to the surprise of the AGA staff at Ipswich). Still leaves many services with lots of reservations and it isn't clear that you don't have a reserved seat and how to get one (unless you trawl through the ATW website).

 

[Saint66]

Are you allowed to beat with baseball bat any idiots who won't move out of a seat that has clearly been reserved by oneself and who try to make it appear that you're at fault not them?

I'm afraid that's called GBH, so you'd probably just end up with a reserved seat in the back of a BTP vehicle.

 

[westv]

With regards to sitting in reserved seats, I personally would prefer it if on cheap advanced tickets passengers were not issued a reservation for a seat and tickets were just issued with a quota per train to ensure it wouldn't be oversold if lots of seats were reserved. If you want a reservation you should be paying for it.

I couldn't disagree more. Those of us that rely on AP tickets already are obliged to get a specific train and often to buy them 3 months in advance. Why should we also incurr further cost just to ensure we get a seat on the train we must be on?

 

[Flamingo]

Are you allowed to beat with baseball bat any idiots who won't move out of a seat that has clearly been reserved by oneself and who try to make it appear that you're at fault not them?

No you're not. That's my job

 

[Harbon 1]

Sometimes it is just preferable to move somewhere else. For example, I was reserved at a table on the 1830 Edinburgh-Newcastle yesterday but a family reserved in the other 3 seats had decided that my seat was for their bag.

Rather than ask them to move, I decided I simply couldn't be bothered with the hassle and sat at a table in the empty unreserved section of the coach and enjoyed some peace instead. The guard only cared about whether I was on the right train.

Only on very busy trains have I ever heard a request for people to sit in their allocated seats.

I had a lady on an AGA service ask me to move from her seat because I didn't check whether there was a ticket. There was literally 4 people in the Mk3 carriage...

 

[Deerfold]

I had a lady on an AGA service ask me to move from her seat because I didn't check whether there was a ticket. There was literally 4 people in the Mk3 carriage...

Perhaps she'd reserved her favourite spot?

 

[Harbon 1]

Perhaps she'd reserved her favourite spot?

To be fair to her it was one of the only tables with an actual table.

 

[IanD]

To be fair to her it was one of the only tables with an actual table.

Well, what's your problem? She'd obviously reserved a set at a table and wanted to claim it but you decided you'd have it instead. To be fair to most of the travelling public, they maybe don't know that you don't have to sit in your reserved seat - but even if they are aware, it is their right to ask you to move if you are sitting in the seat they have reserved regardless of how many other seats are free.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I had a lady on an AGA service ask me to move from her seat because I didn't check whether there was a ticket. There was literally 4 people in the Mk3 carriage...

I once got on a Mk3 carriage on a Midland Mainline service, 1st class, five people in the carriage, one reserved seat. I asked a chap sitting the seat next to my reserved seat if I could sit in it. The chap huffed but moved to another table. The Guard decided to lecture me about asking a 'Full fare paying passenger' (as if I was to know) to move when I was only using a staff priv ticket and weekend first. The Guard then went and apologised to the passenger that moved.

Yes, I could have sat down anywhere else in the carriage, but why should I? I also see no reason to explain to the passenger, the Guard, or anyone else, why that seat was reserved for me, or why I want to sit in it, that fact is that it was reserved for me and that should be enough for anyone.

 

[TUC]

I'm afraid that's called GBH, so you'd probably just end up with a reserved seat in the back of a BTP vehicle.

But the 1:1 service is excellent.

 

[theageofthetra]

On the Scotrail services I used today from Waverley-Aberdeen the Guard made announcements at all the major stations for those with reserved seats to actually sit in them to leave more space in the unreserved coach. Happened on the return journey too.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I couldn't disagree more. Those of us that rely on AP tickets already are obliged to get a specific train and often to buy them 3 months in advance. Why should we also incurr further cost just to ensure we get a seat on the train we must be on?

Because you're buying a heavily discounted ticket, why should somebody who pays 10% of the walkup fare get a reserved seat for free over somebody who pays 100% of the fare?

 

[IanD]

Because you're buying a heavily discounted ticket, why should somebody who pays 10% of the walkup fare get a reserved seat for free over somebody who pays 100% of the fare?

The cost of a reservation is generally the same no matter what the cost of the ticket.

Why should I, an Advance ticket holder, be denied a reserved seat because someone who hasn't planned ahead (for whatever reason) might turn up at the last minute and pay over the odds for the right to be carried from A to B.

 

[ASharpe]

Because you're buying a heavily discounted ticket, why should somebody who pays 10% of the walkup fare get a reserved seat for free over somebody who pays 100% of the fare?

Reservations are available for passengers who pay the full fare. they just need to book one at least a day before travel. If the train is likely to be busy then maybe Advance fares shouldn't be sold for it.

There are a couple of trains I frequently catch with a lowest tier advance which are usually fully reserved and have people standing.

Would standing only advance tickets be acceptable?

 

[Harbon 1]

Well, what's your problem? She'd obviously reserved a set at a table and wanted to claim it but you decided you'd have it instead. To be fair to most of the travelling public, they maybe don't know that you don't have to sit in your reserved seat - but even if they are aware, it is their right to ask you to move if you are sitting in the seat they have reserved regardless of how many other seats are free.

I didn't have a problem, it's an anecdote.

Just because I don't care where I sit doesn't mean everyone's the same.

If you'd read my previous post I hadn't claimed the seat as I forgot to look if there was a reservation.

I didn't argue, I didn't fuss, I said sorry, got up and moved to the table (well, bay of four) in front.
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I once got on a Mk3 carriage on a Midland Mainline service, 1st class, five people in the carriage, one reserved seat. I asked a chap sitting the seat next to my reserved seat if I could sit in it. The chap huffed but moved to another table. The Guard decided to lecture me about asking a 'Full fare paying passenger' (as if I was to know) to move when I was only using a staff priv ticket and weekend first. The Guard then went and apologised to the passenger that moved.

Yes, I could have sat down anywhere else in the carriage, but why should I? I also see no reason to explain to the passenger, the Guard, or anyone else, why that seat was reserved for me, or why I want to sit in it, that fact is that it was reserved for me and that should be enough for anyone.

I wasn't challenging her decision, if I'd reserved my favourite seat I'd want to sit in it. But for me, if it's taken but there's a carriage full of empty seats I'd just find another, it doesn't bother me where I sit because at the end of the day a seat is a seat.

Just because that's my view and attitude doesn't mean its everyone's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wasn't challenging her decision, if I'd reserved my favourite seat I'd want to sit in it. But for me, if it's taken but there's a carriage full of empty seats I'd just find another, it doesn't bother me where I sit because at the end of the day a seat is a seat.

Just because that's my view and attitude doesn't mean its everyone's.

Indeed, it's very much not mine. I have quite a number of preferences.

Neil

 

[Flamingo]

Digressing slightly, I observed something a few weeks ago as I was prepping the train.

An unreserved table for four, and two people boarding sat at it. There was a bag already on one seat. The chap who's bag it was comes back from the luggage rack, says "Excuse me I was sitting there". The two people who were at the table (which still had two empty seats at it) aoplogised and moved to a two-seat airline seat, leaving chappie on his own at the table - which he continued to occupy in solitary splendour for the next two hours.

Who else would have moved, and who would have pointed at the two empty seats and said "Which one were you in?"

(I was praying for somebody (preferably with a child) to ask was there a table seat, because I knew exactly where I was going to direct them to! Unfortunately, nobody did.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd probably say "Sorry, which seat were you sitting in?" and allow him to sit in that one, but the bag would be moved to allow me to sit in the one he wasn't sitting in. If it wasn't moved by him, it'd be moved by me.

Neil

 

[yorksrob]

Digressing slightly, I observed something a few weeks ago as I was prepping the train.

An unreserved table for four, and two people boarding sat at it. There was a company bag already on one seat. The chap who's bag it was comes back from the luggage rack, says "Excuse me I was sitting there". The two people who were at the table (which still had two empty seats at it) aoplogised and moved to a two-seat airline seat, leaving chappie on his own at the table - which he continued to occupy in solitary splendour for the next two hours.

Who else would have moved, and who would have pointed at the two empty seats and said "Which one were you in?"

(I was praying for somebody (preferably with a child) to ask was there a table seat, because I knew exactly where I was going to direct them to! Unfortunately, nobody did.)

The above anecdote illustrates perfectly what an unnecessary nuisance hundreds of advanced seat reservations are.

Let people paying non-advanced who want one ask for one and they should have one free. Let people on AP who want one, ask for one, and let them pay a small surcharge.

This would save a whole lot of superfluous fannying around at the start of every journey as the people bothered to request one would be far less than those churned out presently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I agree re reservations.

I think there should be a fee of £2 for a seat reservation, and possibly a refund of £1 for cancelling it. That would heavily reduce the number of unused reservations. I would apply this to all tickets, whether Advance or walk-up.

Neil

 

[Jonny]

Yes, I agree re reservations.

I think there should be a fee of £2 for a seat reservation, and possibly a refund of £1 for cancelling it. That would heavily reduce the number of unused reservations. I would apply this to all tickets, whether Advance or walk-up.

Neil

Ah, but advances include a mandatory reservation so that would be included in the fee.

As an aside, it is very difficult for the TOC to enforce since the ticket is still valid - sure it's a breach of contract, but they can't recourse to the byelaws let alone RoRA. They would have to go for damages, and even then they would have to show that they had suffered loss.

 

[westv]

I'm confused as to what the "problem" that's being "solved" by asking passengers to pay more is actually supposed to be.

 

[yorksrob]

Ah, but advances include a mandatory reservation so that would be included in the fee.

Not all do - and there's no earthly reason why they have to, which was my point.
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I'm confused as to what the "problem" that's being "solved" by asking passengers to pay more is actually supposed to be.

Some people might obtain a reservation frivolously, blocking a seat, which they might not use. However, in reality, I don't think there would ever be anywhere near enough people obtaining reservations for this to become a problem - just that for very cheap tickets, it's a little bit of extra revenue

As for "off peak" and "anytime", I think people pay enough for these already. I might let advanced 1st have a free reservation as an upgrade perk as well.

 

[pne]

there's no earthly reason why they have to

The point had been made that Advance ticket holders have to take a particular train. Enabling them to be sure they will be able to is one possible reason for seat reservations.

(Flexible ticket holders could theoretically take another train if they find theirs is full to the brim; Advance ticket holders have no such "luxury".)

 

[Flamingo]

The above anecdote illustrates perfectly what an unnecessary nuisance hundreds of advanced seat reservations are.

Let people paying non-advanced who want one ask for one and they should have one free. Let people on AP who want one, ask for one, and let them pay a small surcharge.

This would save a whole lot of superfluous fannying around at the start of every journey as the people bothered to request one would be far less than those churned out presently.

I don't follow your argument. Nobody involved had a reservation, and the table was not reserved...

 

[yorksrob]

I don't follow your argument. Nobody involved had a reservation, and the table was not reserved...

My point is, that had the surrounding seats not been reserved (probably for people who didn't want or need one) people wouldn't have been scrabbling around for the unreserved table.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The point had been made that Advance ticket holders have to take a particular train. Enabling them to be sure they will be able to is one possible reason for seat reservations.

(Flexible ticket holders could theoretically take another train if they find theirs is full to the brim; Advance ticket holders have no such "luxury".)

You would still have a quota of AP's, which would help to mitigate the situation, however if it was likely to become full of flexible ticket holders, the option of obtaining a reservation would still be there.

 

[LowLevel]

I've only enforced it once when I had a train that was 50% reserved and I knew I was going to pick up a lot of diverted passengers due to a fatality at an already busy and possibly wouldn't get them all on.

People don't generally like sitting in seats with reservations on them unless they're confident regulars. With such a high number of passengers without reservations piling on I did it so reserved passengers had filled up that end of the train, and unreserved could just pile in and find a seat without blocking the aisles for hours all individually reading tiny coupons.

It worked nicely and I'd do it again but only in unusual circumstances. As long as there's ample seating most of the time I don't mind it at all.

 

[Flamingo]

My point is, that had the surrounding seats not been reserved (probably for people who didn't want or need one) people wouldn't have been scrabbling around for the unreserved table.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You would still have a quota of AP's, which would help to mitigate the situation, however if it was likely to become full of flexible ticket holders, the option of obtaining a reservation would still be there.

Sorry, I didn't put this in context. The whole coach (and the one next to it) was unreserved, and this was at the start of boarding in London. It was the middle of the day, and the train overall was never more than a quarter full.

 

[yorksrob]

Sorry, I didn't put this in context. The whole coach (and the one next to it) was unreserved, and this was at the start of boarding in London. It was the middle of the day, and the train overall was never more than a quarter full.

In that case, apologies for putting two and two together and making five