Residents cut down a wood on Bristol railway line without permission to improve their views

[A Challenge]

Sorry but how is a profile on an obscure watercolour painting forum relevant to this in any way at all?

It is the same person who was quoted in the article:

This was organised by one resident – landscape gardener and artist Jonty Cutting, who told the Post on Friday he had obtained permission from Network Rail for the work.

 

[philthetube]

If NR actually maintained their embankments to anything like the standard we had up until the Beeching Plan, things like this simply wouldn't happen. The structural integrity thing is a moot point too - if embankments were clear it would surely be easier to identify structural weaknesses than having them buried under a blanket of hawthorn and bramble and hoping that the roots keep the soil in place.

Some parts of the country are better than others, granted, but the failure to deal with lineside vegetation is one of the great shames of our system.

Sorry but you can't blame Beeching for this one, the removal of vegetation stopped with the withdrawal of steam, no more fire risk! You can blame him for just about everything else though

 

[bspahh]

Sorry but how is a profile on an obscure watercolour painting forum relevant to this in any way at all?

His paintings are: "inspired by subjects around me; still life taken from objects in the house and garden plus some landscapes", such as the trees at the end of his garden.

 

[goblinuser]

It is the same person who was quoted in the article:

Yes, I know.

 

[edwin_m]

Sorry but how is a profile on an obscure watercolour painting forum relevant to this in any way at all?

Maybe the absence of trees gives him more landscapes to paint?

 

[kermit]

Maybe the absence of trees gives him more landscapes to paint?

There's been another thread on here about the perils of Facebook. Having just been able to look up the unusually-named Mr Cutting and seen his mugshot on FB, there's an example of said perils, right there!
If he or his neighbours really have taken this action as suggested, without permission, they have surely been very, very silly indeed....

 

[Wychwood93]

It's ironic that his name's Jonty 'Cutting'.

His brother @Sonning@ has had a little bit of stick as well.

 

[skyhigh]

Something doesn't entirely add up with the story the way that it's been reported...

From the article:

“I went and talked to the people from Network Rail on Friday morning when they first arrived, and they were amazed,” said another resident, who declined to be named. “They said the train drivers were increasingly alarmed to see this work going on, and kept reporting it.

“They were concerned people were trespassing on the line because these guys didn’t have the usual Network Rail orange jackets on,” he added.

Round where I work, if even a single driver reported someone lineside they didn't think was meant to be there something would be done about it. That this went on for a couple of days before Network Rail turned up is odd.

Even if the tree surgeons were told there was permission, it should have been clear that something was amiss. So I think it's fair to say they could be in hot water if traced. I certainly can think of several offences that could have been committed by both the residents and tree surgeons in this, and if it's found that they have behaved as reported, I hope the proverbial book gets thrown at them!

 

[kermit]

What's the betting the News Quiz features a Cutting about Mr Cutting unlawfully Cutting in a Cutting?

 

[NeroWolfe]

After the reading the thread on fatalities I was going to ask what the rules or responsibilities are with regards to fencing off Network Rail land.
Is the ownership and maintenance always down to NR? Will this be specified in the title deeds?
You see the galvanised spiked railings along rail routes but also in rural or agricultural areas where there are livestock in the fields it may just be a post and rail fence.

 

[Bevan Price]

Unless they have used chemicals to kill the tree stumps, in 2 to 3 years, the vegetation will have sprouted and become several times thicker than it used to be. .....

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

After the reading the thread on fatalities I was going to ask what the rules or responsibilities are with regards to fencing off Network Rail land.
Is the ownership and maintenance always down to NR? Will this be specified in the title deeds?
You see the galvanised spiked railings along rail routes but also in rural or agricultural areas where there are livestock in the fields it may just be a post and rail fence.

Yes, it is NR's responsibility to prevent people from accessing the railway. I don't believe this is specified in the land ownership papers though. As I understand it (and don't take this for gospel), anyone who has something on their land that could be particularly dangerous to the public, such as a rifle range, a sub-station, abanoned mine, railway etc. has a duty of care to prevent unathorised access.

On the railway, whilst there will always be a fence/barrier of some sort, the actual type will vary according to the trespass risk in a given area. There's little point installing 2m high palisade fencing in the middle of the countryside because the risk of trespass is minimal and a post/wire fence will do just fine for keeping livestock away (usually...). In an an urban area, the risk is higher so a larger fence will be used. Whilst this is expensive, it will pay for itself eventually as less time is spent cautioning trains for tresspassers and/or picking what's left of them up when the worst happens.

One of the photographs from this incident appears to show the rear fence of aback-garden missing, which I imagine would be how the 'tree-surgeons' gained access to the cutting.

 

[6Gman]

After the reading the thread on fatalities I was going to ask what the rules or responsibilities are with regards to fencing off Network Rail land.
Is the ownership and maintenance always down to NR? Will this be specified in the title deeds?
You see the galvanised spiked railings along rail routes but also in rural or agricultural areas where there are livestock in the fields it may just be a post and rail fence.

I'm pretty sure that the principle in English Law is that since the railway came after the farms, it's the railway's responsibility to provide "stock proof" fencing. I suspect the interpretation will depend on location. And that some landowners may well add their own higher-spec fencing in addition.

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

Whilst we're taking about trespass risk, a particularly sweet bit of irony here is that by doing this, the local resident(s) may indeed prompt NR/BTP to upgrade the trespass risk rating for this area. Combined with the fact they've just removed a handy natural barrier between them and the railway, they could end up with a far more substantial barrier/fence to look at in years to come.

 

[lammergeier]

Something doesn't entirely add up with the story the way that it's been reported...

From the article:
Round where I work, if even a single driver reported someone lineside they didn't think was meant to be there something would be done about it. That this went on for a couple of days before Network Rail turned up is odd.

Even if the tree surgeons were told there was permission, it should have been clear that something was amiss. So I think it's fair to say they could be in hot water if traced. I certainly can think of several offences that could have been committed by both the residents and tree surgeons in this, and if it's found that they have behaved as reported, I hope the proverbial book gets thrown at them!

I agree. I would like to see the ORR investigate the "tree surgeons" to see if any potential breaches of the HSWA 1974 took place and whether prosecution is a possibility.

 

[fgwrich]

That's a shocking job - stumps all uneven and timber just left where it fell.

Whilst I can't share the map itself, I've looked and, from what I can see, the NR boundary extends right up to the rear of the gardens. Are you sure that 2nd fence isn't actually on the other side of the cutting, closest to the camera?

No qualified Tree Surgeons I know would ever leave any of their work like that. We did / They do take pride in their work That is either the work of a totally unqualified and dubious ''tree surgeon'' or the work of one of the locals with a chainsaw. In fact, any qualified Tree Surgeon would also be checking with the landowner first and not simply taking money from the local residents to do a job like this!

 

[Ianigsy]

After the reading the thread on fatalities I was going to ask what the rules or responsibilities are with regards to fencing off Network Rail land.
Is the ownership and maintenance always down to NR? Will this be specified in the title deeds?
You see the galvanised spiked railings along rail routes but also in rural or agricultural areas where there are livestock in the fields it may just be a post and rail fence.

A lot of railway land remains unregistered- presumably the transfer of the existing network to Railtrack at privatisation and NR thereafter was specifically exempted from first registration on the grounds that it would take forever. One exception that I know of is the reopened Waverley route - in my day job I work for an organisation which received copies of a lot of the compulsory purchase documents- and another is where registerable leases have been entered into in respect of railway land, such as some retail units.

 

[backontrack]

His brother @Sonning@ has had a little bit of stick as well.

A bit of stick?

 

[edwin_m]

I hope the local Network Rail people logged the incident correctly and called out the appropriate branch of their organisation. If not then they ought to twig that they need to turn over a new leaf, and stump up the cash to employ more staff.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I hope the local Network Rail people logged the incident correctly and called out the appropriate branch of their organisation. If not then they ought to twig that they need to turn over a new leaf, and stump up the cash to employ more staff.

Thanks to this post, I can now see why someone earlier referred to the Beeching cuts, perhaps one of the elder members of the forum.
I'll bough out and get my chainsaw.

Unless they have used chemicals to kill the tree stumps, in 2 to 3 years, the vegetation will have sprouted and become several times thicker than it used to be. .....

Yes, it's a practice which is quite widespread, known as pollarding, especially popular around the waterways in East Anglia, Some species such as willow will regenerate vigorously by 2 or 3 meters in just one season after a cut through the trunk at head height.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't know why I started the thread on this root. The j-oaks are going to get syca and more a-corny.

 

[Joe Paxton]

A lot of railway land remains unregistered- presumably the transfer of the existing network to Railtrack at privatisation and NR thereafter was specifically exempted from first registration on the grounds that it would take forever. One exception that I know of is the reopened Waverley route - in my day job I work for an organisation which received copies of a lot of the compulsory purchase documents- and another is where registerable leases have been entered into in respect of railway land, such as some retail units.

Just one small point re Railtrack and Network Rail - Network Rail Infrastructure Limited (NRIL) is actually the same legal entity as Railtrack PLC, it was just renamed in 2003. NRIL is in turn a subsidiary of Network Rail Limited.

 

[jimm]

Sorry but you can't blame Beeching for this one, the removal of vegetation stopped with the withdrawal of steam, no more fire risk! You can blame him for just about everything else though

Not true. Vegetation clearance continued long after the end of steam - just compare pictures of many locations taken in the early 1980s with what they look like now.

Here's a couple from Shipton on the Cotswold Line, photographed by Martin Loader.

http://www.hondawanderer.com/50021_Shipton_1983.htm

By 2016 the tree growth in the area to the right of the train in the picture linked to above was such that only a head-on shot from the road bridge was possible

http://www.hondawanderer.com/180104_Shipton_2016.htm

 

[InOban]

I didn't realise that at one time they cleared the vegetation. I thought that sparks from steam engines periodically burnt it down and today's tunnels of trees date from the end of steam.

 

[Raul_Duke]

The BBC Story seems to name a different person with a slightly different version of events.

http://bbc.in/2DNZdz7

Probe after railway bank trees felled

Network rail disputes claims by one local resident that they had given permission for the trees to be felled
An investigation is under way after trees were cut down on a railway embankment in Bristol without the permission of Network Rail.

The vegetation was removed behind houses on Cromwell Road in Montpelier, Bristol, the Bristol Post reported.

The trees were on an embankment opposite Montpelier railway station.

"Safety is our priority and nobody is permitted to access the railway unless they have the proper permission," Network Rail said.

Resident Cecilia Farring said she had been campaigning for 20 years for the trees to be removed.

She said she had "finally" got permission for the work, but this is something Network Rail has denied.

She said the firm told her it would send a list of approved tree surgeons but never did, "so we organised for registered tree surgeons to do it".

"There's been no light in our garden. I've lived here for 37 years and there were no trees when I moved in," she added, saying sycamores have grown and it had got "worse and worse".

Locals say they worry wildlife has been disrupted by the felling
Network Rail insisted it had not given permission for the work and added it would be investigating.

A resident on the other side of the track, Alistair Wardle, claimed Network Rail have been "thinning the trees out" for years.

Mr Wardle said he is now worried about the wildlife in the area.

"It's like complete deforestation. Usually when you thin trees out you take the big trees out and leave the little saplings to grow and keep the ecosystem going.

"We don't know what damage it's done to wildlife underneath, where the trees have fallen," he said.

 

[Steptoe]

I've only just noticed this thread as rather ironically I was out on railway land yesterday cutting up a tree which had fallen across the line!

The dispute amongst the neighbours reminded me of a similar situation years ago at a wooded cutting in Wymondham, Norfolk: each set of residents wanted the trees adjacent to their own boundary removed to improve their view and reduce shading in their own gardens but wanted the ones on the other side left so they couldn't be overlooked by those residents on that side.

I suggested that they get together, form a committee, and come to us with a joint plan but in the end we walked off site due to the amount of verbal abuse we were getting. In fact we're back there at the moment taking down these now very much larger trees but this time we have the back up of Ash-Dieback disease which means we have carte-blanche to cut down any Ash trees on H&S grounds without any comeback from the tree-huggers.

 

[JohnR]

Whilst we're taking about trespass risk, a particularly sweet bit of irony here is that by doing this, the local resident(s) may indeed prompt NR/BTP to upgrade the trespass risk rating for this area. Combined with the fact they've just removed a handy natural barrier between them and the railway, they could end up with a far more substantial barrier/fence to look at in years to come.

By coincidence, a copy of the Bristol Evening post from 2020 has just fallen through a small localised wormhole:

Resident said the new fencing was appalling. "Its like living in Colditz" said former artist Jonty Cutting.

 

[pdeaves]

By coincidence, a copy of the Bristol Evening post from 2020 has just fallen through a small localised wormhole:

Resident said the new fencing was appalling. "Its like living in Colditz" said former artist Jonty Cutting.

Mr Cutting also criticised the noise made by trains sounding their horns to warn lineside workers of their presence.

 

[Steptoe]

Some concern has been expressed regarding the sawn off trunks rolling down onto the line of their own accord; I can state that this is unlikely unless said trunks are first sectioned into short logs (from much personal experience of trying to do exactly this!)

Of course if the stumps are subsequently removed then it might be possible to lever the trunks down! However these would then have to roll across the cess and the lifted formation before reaching the running line.

Having said this it is highly unprofessional to leave tree debris lying around on someone else's property (i.e. other than the person's who commissioned the work) and I anticipate NR taking a strong view on this.

 

[Domeyhead]

Now that the trees are gone the resident's garden ends are exposed and we can all see the various degrees of encroachment that has occurred down the years. I wonder if the residents will soon wake to find a lovely new and very large NR concrete and steel boundary fence chopping off several metres of their garden now? Perhaps the trees weren't so bad after all.