Revenue Protection at Brighton

[williamn]

It only matters if you actually timetable trains with that 4 min connection with the new west coastway timetable in June Im not sure thats the case.
Of course what we really need is a low level Brighton Coastway station deconflicting the service with mainline services and allowing a through Southampton to Hastings service.

There are also connections from each Coastway onto London trains to consider

 

[AlbertBeale]

It only matters if you actually timetable trains with that 4 min connection with the new west coastway timetable in June Im not sure thats the case.
Of course what we really need is a low level Brighton Coastway station deconflicting the service with mainline services and allowing a through Southampton to Hastings service.

That's long been a dream of mine... Though given the height of the viaduct bringing the East Coastway route in towards Brighton station, the "low level" aspiration is intriguing.... But I've no doubt there's a crayonista somewhere who has a detailed plan of an E-N junction on the viaduct, diving steeply down under the carriage sidings, crossing below the depot, and meeting the tunnelled part of the Cliftonville Curve somewhere or other; though that would only serve Hove station, being well away from Brighton... Oh dear.

 

[Haywain]

That would only stop when, in an ideal world, NR or someone makes an authoritative database of routing and fare rules, every ticket is either QR/Aztec code or contact less and RPIs can scan the tickets to see in 10s whether it's valid or not without implementing bogus rules and al.

10 seconds? You'd never get through a gateline if ticket checking was that slow.

 

[Krokodil]

10 seconds? You'd never get through a gateline if ticket checking was that slow.

I've sold tickets in less time

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I've sold tickets in less time

And what is the average?

 

[Krokodil]

And what is the average?

The range is considerable. At one end of the scale selling a repeat fare (as in one I've already sold on the same train) to someone paying cash takes no time at all: "Same again? £4 please", print and done. At the other end of the scale you get something complicated like an excess, paying card and the machine decides to channel its inner tortoise. That could take five minutes to sort out.

Generally though it takes between 30-60 seconds.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Generally though it takes between 30-60 seconds.

Okay so "generally" it takes 3 - 6 times longer than the supposed 10 second time for a ticket scan and lookup making your point utterly moot

 

[Krokodil]

Okay so "generally" it takes 3 - 6 times longer than the supposed 10 second time for a ticket scan and lookup making your point utterly moot

The point was that 10 seconds is a long time. Ticket inspections only take that long if you're being very thorough and asking to see every railcard.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Which the one at Brighton is doing, including disabling all the e-ticket readers but not telling people until they're at the gates blocking those with smartcards and paper tickets. It is a farce.

 

[Jonny]

I just looked at the NRES map of Brighton station on the National Rail Enquiries website, and while that map is diagrammatic it does seem like there isn't a lot of room.

Link: https://images.nationalrail.co.uk/e...f515a320d22406e415a29b3ed3/Brighton_SME-1.png via https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/brighton/

(Image alternate text: "Brighton Station Plan")

The point was that 10 seconds is a long time. Ticket inspections only take that long if you're being very thorough and asking to see every railcard.

Which is a measly six tickets per minute.

 

[Sealink]

This. Used 4 Greater Anglia trains yesterday and ticket checked 4 times. On my commute to work on SWR I've not had a ticket check on train in over a year, both ends of journey ungated and there have maybe been a couple of station checks in that time.

It's not surprising that if people hardly ever encounter a ticket check then some will decide it's not worth paying. Far better regular on board checks than putting on a block once or twice a year. It also helps justify the wages of having a second person on board and will detect short faring that barriers don't catch.

When I travel Dorchester to East Croydon, my ticket is generally checked twice on SWR - once from the Weymouth based guard and one from the Bournemouth guard. On the Southern connection from Southampton via Barnham it has been checked every time. I imagine in commuterland they rely on the barriers to do the job.

 

[Craig1122]

When I travel Dorchester to East Croydon, my ticket is generally checked twice on SWR - once from the Weymouth based guard and one from the Bournemouth. On the Southern connection from Southampton via Barnham it has been checked every time. I image in commuterland they rely on the barriers to do the job.

I've normally had checks when venturing further south on SWR. Trouble with relying on barriers in the suburban area is that a lot of stations are ungated or they're not in use at certain times of day. Also doesn't prevent short tickets or people claiming discounts they're not entitled to.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Another day, another missed connection with dangerous queues now forming on the west coastway platforms as trains arrive. This industry knows no better way to piss off customers and treat them all like criminals.

 

[SussexSeagull]

Sounds like they are using the setup from when Brighton play at home and they split the platforms into three, only difference being they leave the gate open for fans coming back from Falmer for them to join queue on the concourse.

 

[dontteleport]

Another day, another missed connection with dangerous queues now forming on the west coastway platforms as trains arrive. This industry knows no better way to piss off customers and treat them all like criminals.

Agreed - and just wait for somebody on here to spout some iteration of "if you don't like the railways nobody is forcing you to use them" as if it's somehow unreasonable to aspire to anything better.

 

[williamn]

Another day, another missed connection with dangerous queues now forming on the west coastway platforms as trains arrive. This industry knows no better way to piss off customers and treat them all like criminals.

Have you sent in a complaint to Southern? I intend tio.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Have you sent in a complaint to Southern? I intend tio.

Yes. Both on Twitter and formally. If this isn't resolved soon, I'll be getting my MP involved. This infuriates me more than anything GTR have done recently.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes. Both on Twitter and formally. If this isn't resolved soon, I'll be getting my MP involved. This infuriates me more than anything GTR have done recently.

I think most MPs will have other things on their mind for the next few weeks.!
Are MPs really very interested in train services - they appear to have a wide range of other, possibly far more important, issues on their plate ?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Are MPs really very interested in train services - they appear to have a wide range of other, possibly far more important, issues on their plate ?

My local MP - Peter Kyle - is bragging about his actions in improving the railway service as part of his re-election campaign.

 

[Haywain]

My local MP - Peter Kyle - is bragging about his actions in improving the railway service as part of his re-election campaign.

Parliament has been dissolved and he is no longer an MP.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Parliament has been dissolved and he is no longer an MP.

He was when I posted at 21.33. Either way, this is pendantic and he is a prospective MP that will be keen to listen to issues within the community. Particularly conerns related to those he has successfully resolved in the past.

 

[43066]

Are MPs really very interested in train services - they appear to have a wide range of other, possibly far more important, issues on their plate ?

Lots will be, yes. It’s an important part of national infrastructure, especially focussed around transport from London and the south east to other major conurbations. Surely that’s obvious to most people.

Ticket checking on the Seaford branch has got more thorough over the last six months.

Non-payment, or pay when challenged, is still endemic for the short hop between Newhaven and Seaford, and needs a purge.

I haven’t witnessed the specific arrangements being complained about at Brighton, but I am aware the coastway is a bit of a hot spot, hence overdue a crackdown. That ties in with the approach being seen at most operators of trying to recoup more of the revenue lost to fare evasion.

 

[nanstallon]

It's the silliest revenue operation I've ever encountered. Whilst ticketless travel is a concern, it treats the many fare paying passengers like s**t preventing them from making the tight connections that GTR refuse to retimetable.

'Stuff the customer'!

 

[williamn]

I don't know if anyone else has had trouble with the complaints form online - it won't work for me. The Southern X/twitter team have been helpful though and advised formalising any complaint and sending it to the customer service email address. They recognise the minimum connection is 5 minutes, and said that 'the team will endeavour to help people make this' but this hasn't been my experience.

 

[Western Gaffer]

Either way, this is pendantic...

*pedantic

 

[ThameslinkUser]

*pedantic

The pain of posting at the end of night shifts!

 

[OscarH]

I don't know if anyone else has had trouble with the complaints form online - it won't work for me. The Southern X/twitter team have been helpful though and advised formalising any complaint and sending it to the customer service email address. They recognise the minimum connection is 5 minutes, and said that 'the team will endeavour to help people make this' but this hasn't been my experience.

Yeah, the online form is useless, just hanging on the last submit button by any chance? I always have to just email the address instead

 

[williamn]

Yeah, the online form is useless, just hanging on the last submit button by any chance? I always have to just email the address instead

Yes exactly that.

 

[paul1609]

It's the silliest revenue operation I've ever encountered. Whilst ticketless travel is a concern, it treats the many fare paying passengers like s**t preventing them from making the tight connections that GTR refuse to retimetable.

Isnt the West Coastway timetable completely recast from Sunday? My East to West Coastway connection has gone up to 20 mins.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Finally got a reply to my complaint.

Thank you for your email regarding the new system at Brighton station.

I understand you’re unhappy with our recent revenue protection operations at Brighton station. I can appreciate why this is the case but since the start of this year we’ve had a much sharper focus on fraudulent and ticketless travel, as it costs the rail industry as a whole a significant amount annually.

I know this means your journey thorough the station might take longer and you may have to queue to leave or enter, and of course I apologise if that’s caused you any inconvenience. We have no way of knowing who has and who doesn’t have a valid ticket, so everyone has to be checked and there are no plans to bring these operations to an end.

The more reports we get about a specific station, the more chance there is of our revenue team targeting that location, and these operations can be very successful in terms of identifying persistent fare evaders and taking the necessary action. In the case of Brighton specifically, these operations have already identified numerous people wanted by the police, amongst others, so we feel the temporary inconvenience to people using the station is outweighed by the benefits.

As a company we take the safety and security of all our customers very seriously. We’d never encourage anyone to run to make a train as this can be dangerous. Checking tickets at any busy station will add time to your journey but doesn't in itself cause a safety issue. The recommended connection time at Brighton is at least five minutes, so you should allow this amount of time to change trains or enter or exit the station.

Any actions that might pose a safety risk, for example the arrival of significant numbers of people on multiple busy trains at once will be appropriately handled by our fully trained staff on the ground. While I appreciate there have been some issues with people trying to move the barriers out of the way or becoming frustrated with the process as a whole, it is not inherently unsafe to institute ticket checks and queues in this way.

The revenue protection operation at Brighton isn’t scheduled to end for the foreseeable future. As such all customers are expected to allow more time to get through the station as they’ll need to enter the ticket check area, and then go to their desired platform.

Ultimately, revenue protection operations are directed by staff reports, customer feedback and data from ticket barriers. Stations that have higher rates of fraud or people trying to travel without a valid ticket are targeted ahead of others, so I can assure you Brighton is being covered for genuine reasons.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us, and I hope this information has been of use.

For me the biggest problem is still the contempt the company has for connecting passengers. This could be easily solved by instead of hiring 12 agency staff that do nothing aside from get abuse, they could instead simply deploy a couple of actual revenue protection officers to manually check any paper tickets for connecting passengers.