Mr Micawber
Member
- Joined
- 8 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 12
I have a question: Can management legally set targets for revenue protection staff to achieve in the amount of Penalty Fares, MG11s and Bye Law reports they issue?
Southern used to have a points target for their RPO's. A penalty fare was 20 points and an MG11 was 50 points, and if you averaged 250 per day then that was considered good performance.
Then I think the union got involved and they dropped the targets. Penalty fares / MG11's are supposed to be at the revenue officer's sole discretion, and it's not ideal for anyone if they haven't been getting their numbers so decide to be ruthless at the elderly who've left their senior card at home, or Chinese students who don't really understand what's going on.
Was about to say, that seems exceptionally high!That's mental, that's over Fiveteen PFNs a day! When I used to be an RPA for SWT I'd only ever reach those kind of numbers during special events or exercises. Alternatively Five MG 11s is a bit much too, I'd consider 10 a month to be a half decent figure for yours truly....
That's mental, that's over Fiveteen PFNs a day! When I used to be an RPA for SWT I'd only ever reach those kind of numbers during special events or exercises. Alternatively Five MG 11s is a bit much too, I'd consider 10 a month to be a half decent figure for yours truly....
That certainly seems to me that there was something wrong with the ticketing to gatwick if you were issuing that manyIt wasn't that difficult to achieve to be honest. Before Gatwick Airport got the Oyster extension, I would easily do 50 penalty fares if I spent the whole shift there. The Friday/Saturday night blocks we used to do with BTP at Brighton would always yield hundreds shared out across the whole team (I think our best evening was 430 penalty fares and 80ish MG11's in total for the 12 of us) Standing at Falmer in the mornings was ridiculous too, there'd easily be 20-30 people coming off every train without a ticket.
Then in 2015, all 100 Southern RPO's were made redundant, go figure that one out
The Friday/Saturday night blocks we used to do with BTP at Brighton would always yield hundreds shared out across the whole team
(...)
Then in 2015, all 100 Southern RPO's were made redundant, go figure that one out
Always surprises me how train operating companies would trust a third party contractor give financial bonuses to its employees. How can an RPI possibly use any form of discretion if it means a financial bonus for issuing a penalty fares/fines where a reasonable excuse may exist?I don't think there is any law to stop this. Whether or not it's a sensible idea is another argument.
I don't have any figures to back this up but it is rumoured that 3rd party revenue contractors (not the individual staff) get payments depending on the number of successful penalty fares issued or mg11s completed.
The firm's alledgedly get the bonuses not the individual staff, as subcontractors they are often on minimum wage (Carlisles who work for Northern definitely are) with no bonuses.Always surprises me how train operating companies would trust a third party contractor give financial bonuses to its employees. How can an RPI possibly use any form of discretion if it means a financial bonus for issuing a penalty fares/fines where a reasonable excuse may exist?
Unfortunately, we see instances whereby disabled passengers are issued with Penalty Fares and it's beggars belief. My only rationale is that there must be a financial reward at the end of it to blur someone's judgement so drastically. Discretion and financial incentive are an oxymoron. By all means keep a record of performance but financial incentives for revenue targets are alien to me in the railway industry.
Unfortunately, we see instances whereby disabled passengers are issued with Penalty Fares and it's beggars belief.
Providing someones disability doesn't prevent or hinder them from purchasing a ticket then I see no reason why they shouldn't be issues a penalty fare. For example somebody with a hearing impairment can often use a ticket machine as easily as somebody without that disability. Whereas somebody with a visual impairment often cannot. However the person with the hearing impairment may also have learning difficulties which may not be obvious to the RPI but may prevent them using a machine. It may be that a person cannot stand in a queue, again this may not be obvious to an rpi whether or not they are on commission. Do we just not issue any penalty fares in case someone has a disability?I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. From extensive experience, some elderly and disabled people are by no means immune to evading fares, and indeed can make things quite “political” to suit their own goals. Proportionally, they’re just as bad as everyone else.
In the recent past, the longest amount of time I’ve seen evidence of someone fraudulently using an expired railcard is about 3 years, and that was a “sweet old dear” with a Senior card. On the very same route, at least one Disabled railcard holder is renowned for always being surprised at being asked to pay up for a one- or two-stop local journey...
I agree, there are plenty of crafty old sods about who are as sharp as a pin but suddenly become all confused when it suits them.I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. From extensive experience, some elderly and disabled people are by no means immune to evading fares, and indeed can make things quite “political” to suit their own goals. Proportionally, they’re just as bad as everyone else.
In the recent past, the longest amount of time I’ve seen evidence of someone fraudulently using an expired railcard is about 3 years, and that was a “sweet old dear” with a Senior card. On the very same route, at least one Disabled railcard holder is renowned for always being surprised at being asked to pay up for a one- or two-stop local journey...
I agree, there are plenty of crafty old sods about who are as sharp as a pin but suddenly become all confused when it suits them.
This is getting to what I'm trying to find out.You say the unions got involved so they dropped the targets.So is it that discretion maybe compromised if targets are set?Is it anywhere stated in any legislation or codes of conduct that targets can or cannot be set?Southern used to have a points target for their RPO's. A penalty fare was 20 points and an MG11 was 50 points, and if you averaged 250 per day then that was considered good performance.
Then I think the union got involved and they dropped the targets. Penalty fares / MG11's are supposed to be at the revenue officer's sole discretion, and it's not ideal for anyone if they haven't been getting their numbers so decide to be ruthless at the elderly who've left their senior card at home, or Chinese students who don't really understand what's going on.