Ridiculous student room discussion on fare evasion

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Chapeltom, 16 Nov 2011.

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  1. Chapeltom

    Chapeltom Established Member

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    Thought this may interest a few, TSR isn't known for its intellectual posters...

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1832879

    If anyone wants a laugh or try and back me up, have a read. Yes some of what I've put it is a total twaddle but a lot of other posts on there are total twaddle...
     
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  3. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    There is just one point that I, not knowing railway regulations, would ask and that if the couple were obviously together and the money was offered by the young man to pay the required money, what are the railway rules that forbid this?
     
  4. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    That's The Student Room for you!
     
  5. Chapeltom

    Chapeltom Established Member

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    We still don't know the full story, the OP hasn't been brave enough to tell the truth. All a bit worrying.
     
  6. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    If it wasn't so annoying (in regards to me spending a lot of money on rail travel, only for people to take every chance to avoid paying) it would probably be amusing.
    My posts on here tend to be generally "pro-passenger" and giving people who make mistakes the benefit of the doubt. Yet in that thread I'm generally defending the TOC's. When you get people like that, it certainly does make me think twice about my opinions about giving people the benefit of the doubt.
     
  7. klambert

    klambert Established Member

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    I cant see whats to laugh at the OP on the TSR, he's offered to pay for her ticket but the money wasnt accepted by the guard and I cant see way. Alternatively the guard could have told them to go to the excess fares bit at the 'main' station they mentioned and pay for the ticket there. I dont think the TSR OP is the one to ridicule here.

    Then again we dont know the full story from the original OPS point of view
     
  8. Badger

    Badger Member

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    I don't like on the spot fines. The way I see it, if the ticket guy has the amenities to take a £20 fine, then he has the amenities to take money for a ticket.

    I know fare evasion is a bad thing, but I think giving guards the ability to process ticket purchases would be a better option, especially given this person was able to get onto the train without passing a ticket barrier.

    However,

    Is frankly stupid of them and I hope they face the consequences of that.
     
  9. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    From what was said in the post we can assume they boarded at a station where you can buy tickets.
    He had a ticket, so why didn't she?

    The person also gave false details, and generally seems to have a bit of an attitude with railway staff.

    I agree we don't know the whole story, and so there is a question about why the guard didn't accept him paying. But from what has been said, I would say the guard was right.
     
  10. trentside

    trentside Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    The way the Student Room poster comes across suggests he probably got mouthy with the guard/RPI, hence why the girlfriend was asked to step away to complete the 'form'. While the way he presents it sounds like he and his girlfriend were unfairly treated, I'd expect that the truth is somewhat different.

    Pure speculation, obviously!
     
  11. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    The reason they wont let you buy on the train is because it encourages chancers. Most RPIs carry an avantix but won't issue tickets with them if they can PF instead. Otherwise everyone would buy on board on the chance no tickets would be checked and they will get a free trip. The buy before you board policy is to try and make people buy a ticket for every train even if there are no ticket checks on it.
     
  12. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    Indeed. The real reason for PF's is for TOC's like FCC to have no onboard staff.
     
  13. klambert

    klambert Established Member

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    Hmm I have bought tickets many times on trains and at excess fares desks, then again my most common rail journey is between Reading and Paddington and both have barriers at each end.
     
  14. mappman1000

    mappman1000 Member

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    I think the case on any train that calls at a station with no barriers should be to be able to be able buy a ticket on board, people do it all the time at places that have ticket machines but no barriers, like Stowmarket.
     
  15. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    You can technally if no penalty fares are in place, but officially only full price ones, no RCD discounts etc
     
  16. Lampshade

    Lampshade Established Member

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    Your post is the most intelligent yet received so much neg rep. No surprise there really, it's TSR :lol:

    I shall join in.
     
  17. SteamPower

    SteamPower Member

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    Deleted.
     
  18. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    I don't understand why the guard/RPI didn't accept the £20 Penalty Fare from the OP...

    Unless the truth isn't being told.
     
  19. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    From the OP's post, I wouldn't what initially happened fare evasion - although I don't doubt that they were hoping to get away without buying a ticket. They boarded a train in a PF zone and got issued a PF - £20 is annoying at the time but it should be a lesson learned experience.

    In particular:
    For a ticket, this is definitely totally wrong. For a Penalty Fare, I'd be surprised if it cannot be paid by someone else but obviously I don't know the PF rules in detail. As a PF is nominally a ticket I can't see why it couldn't be someone else paying. However, if the OP had been particularly argumentative or at all abusive then the RPI might have been looking for an excuse to do a TIR or MG11.

    The rules is - you must buy a ticket before your journey begins, unless there are no facilities to do so. If you don't you are liable to a full fare Anytime Single/Return or a PF (if your journey is wholly within a PF Zone). A subtle but important difference. If I board a train from Aldermaston (no ticket facilities) to Reading, then a pick up a train from Oxford to London, I can buy the full range of tickets on the Reading-London train, despite every station on its route being barriered. If I boarded at Reading West (ticket machine) to connect with the same train, I could be Penalty Fared.
     
  20. HYPODERMIC

    HYPODERMIC Member

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    I'm 19, and a student myself, but TSR makes me cringe. I'm honestly surprised they aren't outright promoting evasion to counter the nasty ConDem fare rises. :roll:

    The bit about filling in the UPFN with false details intrigued me; does this actually work? Surely false details must be given all the time - are there any measures to prevent this from being effective?

    I've never dodged a fare, and I'd be a bit miffed if all those fare dodgers I've seen caught by guards/RPIs managed to get away with it by filling in junk information.

    I'm well aware that this line of questioning may potentially yield some helpful information to fare dodgers, so if necessary, PM me.

    Eurgh, now I sound like a fare dodger too! ;) :lol:
     
  21. DavidBusDriver

    DavidBusDriver Member

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    As a bus driver I got so many different attempts of chancing.. a hilarious one to follow... and the amount of times I would give people the chance to write their details down on a slip to get the fare collected and get it handed to me with clearly false information was unreal - at least try to make it believable false information, but no, people would quite happily sit infront of me and write out 'Mickey Mouse, Orlando' or other similar things.. quite the height of stupidity!

    Best chancing one that made me laugh so much, was a girl who tried to use a travel card that had clearly had the date altered by a bit of 'cutting and pasting' - Adobe PhotoShop (Other similar products are available) you may think... Nope - scissors and Pritt Stick!!!
     
  22. 90019

    90019 Established Member

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    If the OP in that thread is telling the whole story, then I'll eat my hat*.




    *I don't actually own a hat.
     
  23. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    A man is not complete without a hat?

    What do you eat??
     
  24. bobster1983

    bobster1983 New Member

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    Fascinating thread i must admit. But in regard to the OP offering to pay the PF there is no rule stating you cant take payment from someone else, its entirely down to discretion.
    On another note providing false details moves the situation to another arena, it then becomes a criminal matter.
     
  25. junglejames

    junglejames Established Member

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    By the sounds of it, the guard/ RPI/ Mr Blobby (whoever it was that came to check the tickets), never intended to sell them a ticket, and was always going to give them a penalty fare. So assume it was in a penalty fare zone. So no problem with the £20 penalty fare. The annoying bit is the fact the guard never took the £20 off the lad. He should have done. No reason not to.

    Putting false information on the form was totally against the law, but it could be argued it was a fair thing to do on this occasion (assuming what we have heard is correct).
    Why should they face the prospect of having to pay an awful lot more, when they shouldnt have to?

    You go into a restaurant and eat your meal. The bill comes. £20. You go to pay, but the manager says they arent going to take your money, but they are going to accuse you of shop lifting/ food lifting, whatever you call it in this case! Are you going to be happy with that? Because by writing her details down like that and threatening them with court, you are basically accusing them of refusing to pay. But they were willing to pay. Guard/ RPI was toally in the wrong.
     
  26. bobster1983

    bobster1983 New Member

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    True enough the staff member could well have just taken the £20, and the matter would have been over, unfortunately one thing that was never mentioned is wether or not the OP and his friend have ever been seen on the trains in the past in regard to lacking tickets. Also there is the other thing of if they werent approach when would they have paid there fare. Unfortunately there will always be opposing opinions in this matter as some people believe they shouldnt be fined and other accept that is the way of things and just pay.
     
  27. Anvil1984

    Anvil1984 Established Member

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    Surely the analogy would be you go into a restaurant where their are big yellow posters telling you that you must pay before you eat ehich you ignore as you think you have a chance of a free meal unless you are caught.l
     
  28. junglejames

    junglejames Established Member

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    Well you could use that analogy if you thought they were trying to dodge their fare. But going just by what was said on the thread, as that is all we have to go by, they were not trying to do that.
    My one was purely looking at the fact that the guard should have taken the £20, but instead wanted to get the courts involved, unfairly.
    Actually, that sounds like an RPI doesnt it. Im sure some of them get off on refering the matter to the prosecution dept.
     
  29. Anvil1984

    Anvil1984 Established Member

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    Its not a guard as guards dont do penalty fares.And thanks for tarring a whole grade with the same brush, quite simpy she was in the wrong if she had forgotten her purse why didnt her partner buy the ticket for her. On PFs its quite common for passengers details to be taken as they have committed an offense and it needs to be logged otherwise you get people getting repeat PFs and no further action taken
     
  30. junglejames

    junglejames Established Member

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    Sorry didnt mean to imply all RPIs were the same.

    As the thread says though, she arrived late at the station and never had time to get a ticket. So it wasnt noticed about the purse until onboard. The guy then tried to pay the penalty fare but was stopped from doing so.

    OK we only have the thread to go on, but if its correct, then the RPI acted very unfairly.
     
  31. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Eh? The just how exactly are you getting rail-side? And you do realise you are breaking railway byelaws by not purchasing your tickets at the earliest opportunity.
     
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