Right Time punctuality

[The Planner]

But one thing we can probably all agree with is that the only reason why they do it is to reduce financial penalties for delays. This practice didn't exist until a few years ago.

The schedule 8 train performance regime for compensation to TOCs and NR came in at privitisation, so 1994. It is a practice that has existed for 19 years, it isn't a new thing.

 

[Zoe]

The schedule 8 train performance regime for compensation to TOCs and NR came in at privitisation, so 1994. It is a practice that has existed for 19 years, it isn't a new thing.

Indeed, I was denied boarding at Paddington back in 2003. Even though I was there about one minute before departure time, a barrier had been placed across the entrance to the platform from the concourse. Luckily I had a Super Saver ticket so was able to just get the next train without having to pay for a new ticket.

 

[ainsworth74]

The schedule 8 train performance regime for compensation to TOCs and NR came in at privitisation, so 1994. It is a practice that has existed for 19 years, it isn't a new thing.

And unless I've missed a trick NSE used to close barriers and gate-lines thirty seconds before departure as well so in some cases it isn't even something that privatisation brought.

 

[radamfi]

From robsignals in uk.railway archives:

www.southwesttrains.co.uk latest news on 16/9/02.

"Our first priority is always to get our customers to their
destinations safely. Then we need to ensure that they arrive on time.
In order to first achieve and then maintain higher standards of
punctuality, South West Trains has recently launched an initiative
known as "Time minus 30 seconds" or T - 30.

The aim is simple. To ensure that all trains depart from stations on
time (at 00 seconds), platform staff will advise passengers, through
whistle blowing, that the train is ready to depart and discourage any
more from joining the train 30 seconds before the timetabled departure
time. The signal will then be given to the guard telling him that the
train is ready to leave the station.

This may sound trivial, but imagine that a single train is delayed at
each station by just 10 seconds. Some trains may be calling at as many
as 20 stations on one journey, resulting in an overall delay of 3-4
minutes for that train alone. The reactionary delays then caused to
the other trains around it, coupled with traincrew and rolling stock
displacement can have a devastating affect on performance throughout
the network. Please support us in our initiative by boarding trains as
quickly as possible."

Ignoring the fact that some departures are timed at 1/2 minute past
(at 30 secs) this is plain daft. Generally staff on SWT do a good
impression of being invisible, but then again most stations don't have
any platform staff. 20 station journeys = London suburban where
platform staff are few and far between, so unless SWT are going to
recruit lots of new staff - no chance, or insist that conductors take
some interest in what's going on instead of waiting a while before
glancing out and giving ding, ding - fat chance, this is pure empty
whaffle.

Just confirms my view that senior SWT managers don't have a clue how
to run a railway, coming up with meaningless gee-whiz brainwaves from
the comfort of their offices. Has there been any training for front
line staff, I'll bet this is a purely proclaim and forget exercise.

If 3-4 minute delays cause the train plan to fall apart then it's
drawn too tight, stock and crew turnrounds should be able to absorb
minor delays. Haven't these bus bandits grasped that rail operation is
fundamentally different yet?

If SWT really want to do something they might copy South Central, peak
departures from Victoria & Clapham Jct are all advertised a minute
earlier than their working times. Quite effective so long as staff
don't look at the WTT.

So it looks like the widespread advertisement of trains running 30 seconds early at all stations in a region started just over 10 years ago. I'm sure SWT were the first to do it.

 

[FGW_DID]

Some people agree with running trains 30-120 seconds early, others don't.

Are you talking about the train doors closing/locking before departure time or the train actually leaving the platform early?

If you mean the train is physically leaving the platform two minutes early then that clearly is unacceptable.

 

[Zoe]

So it looks like the widespread advertisement of trains running 30 seconds early at all stations in a region started just over 10 years ago. I'm sure SWT were the first to do it.

I remmeber FGW locking the doors 30 seconds before departure back in 1999.

 

[radamfi]

I remmeber FGW locking the doors 30 seconds before departure back in 1999.

Did they have posters at all or most fGW stations advertising that fact?

 

[Roverman]

Chichester station (BR/NSE then Connex) had a sign next to the platforms saying a barrier would be drawn across either 30 seconds or 1 min before departure (I forget which) when I was using the trains for school 20 years ago, however I never saw them use it and I travelled through Chichester twice daily for seven years!

 

[Zoe]

Did they have posters at all or most fGW stations advertising that fact?

I'm not sure if they did nor not although I seem to remember reading it in timetables. Even if it wasn't widely publicized, it was still a policy back then.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Euston has had the 2 minute policy for as long as I can remember, certainly back to the days when the trains and the station were run by BR.

I believe the policy is still the same as it always has been.

Close the platform 2 mins before departure, allow pax on the platform to board until 1 min before departure, doors closed and safety check carried out by 15 secs before departure. XX:XX:00 train driver takes power.

 

[Greenback]

Did they have posters at all or most fGW stations advertising that fact?

I'm sure there were notices at Reading when I worked there. I'm also pretty sure that the policy came in with power operated doors and central door locking.

I think we can safely say that it is not new by any means!

 

[Zoe]

I'm sure there were notices at Reading when I worked there. I'm also pretty sure that the policy came in with power operated doors and central door locking.

In the days before CDL though, would the platform staff have still given the tip before departure time to guarantee that the train will be moving at 00?

 

[Greenback]

In the days before CDL though, would the platform staff have still given the tip before departure time to guarantee that the train will be moving at 00?

There would have been no need for more than a few seconds if they did, as the doors could not be locked and there was no realistic way to prevent people on the platform attempting to board, other than yelling at them.

In addition, prior to privatisation there was less pressure on BR to ensure the absolute right away time was adhered to, as the performance regime did not exist in the way it does now.

Whether the current way is better or not can be debated at length, but the fact is that things have changed since the 1980's in many ways.

 

[D1009]

In the days before CDL though, would the platform staff have still given the tip before departure time to guarantee that the train will be moving at 00?

In my recollection, no, trains leaving before time were a no-no.

 

[radamfi]

I'm sure there were notices at Reading when I worked there. I'm also pretty sure that the policy came in with power operated doors and central door locking.

I think we can safely say that it is not new by any means!

It might have been policy for a while on long distance trains like fGW and Virgin at certain stations but perhaps not across a whole region covering all suburban and local services until more recently. The uk.railway archive clearly shows that SWT started advertising the rule in 2002 and I clearly remember noticing SWT displaying posters to that effect despite not being a regular SWT traveller at the time. Southern/South Central implemented the rule some time after SWT. Northern certainly didn't advertise it until much later. There must be few, if any, operators not following that rule these days.

 

[ainsworth74]

As mentioned earlier NSE were doing it so it's not that new on some suburban London services for sure. Perhaps it was just new out of Waterloo.

 

[LE Greys]

It might have been policy for a while on long distance trains like fGW and Virgin at certain stations but perhaps not across a whole region covering all suburban and local services until more recently. The uk.railway archive clearly shows that SWT started advertising the rule in 2002 and I clearly remember noticing SWT displaying posters to that effect despite not being a regular SWT traveller at the time. Southern/South Central implemented the rule some time after SWT. Northern certainly didn't advertise it until much later. There must be few, if any, operators not following that rule these days.

For all practical purposes, SWT could not impliment it until they had replaced their slam-door stock on quite a few routes. I seem to remember that the first ten seconds after departure were considered safe for boarding by some passengers. The 30-second policy has been in use at King's Cross for as long as I can remember. Essentially, they try to seal off the platform just before the CD light comes on, and there were definitely notices up in NSE days (AFAICR).

 

[fordylad]

We run for those who wait, we do not wait for those who run ! Lol

 

[CatfordCat]

I remember the door to the platform being closed by the ticket collector while the train was despatched (in peak hours at least) at southern region (SE division) suburban stations in the late 80s, and think this had been standard practice for some time.

Also, Charing Cross had a 'barrier bell' which the platform staff rang to alert the ticket collectors to close the platform barriers while trains were being despatched. I am pretty sure this happened at other London termini.

I think there were notices to the effect this would happen. I can't remember the exact time before each departure this happened.

And all this of course in the days of slam door / non central locking / driver & guard operation.

I am inclined to agree however that shutting doors 2 minutes before departure is a bit extreme. And as for then having the train sitting there for 2 minutes while intending passengers fume / bang on doors / do silly things to try and open doors strikes me as unhelpful...

 

[Mojo]

Also, Charing Cross had a 'barrier bell' which the platform staff rang to alert the ticket collectors to close the platform barriers while trains were being despatched. I am pretty sure this happened at other London termini.

The 'barrier bell' is (or was when I was at both locations in the past year) still used at Kings + for Capital Connect trains and also at Liverpool Street on the Great Eastern side. Rather than for barrier staff though it seems to purely be used to 'hurry up' customers.

 

[317666]

The 'barrier bell' is (or was when I was at both locations in the past year) still used at Kings + for Capital Connect trains and also at Liverpool Street on the Great Eastern side. Rather than for barrier staff though it seems to purely be used to 'hurry up' customers.

It's also used on the West Anglia side at Liverpool Street, for inner-suburban trains at least.

 

[bronzeonion]

What is a barrier bell?

 

[Mojo]

It's also used on the West Anglia side at Liverpool Street, for inner-suburban trains at least.

Thanks. I thought this may be the case as all platforms have the button, but I've never caught a train from this side.

 

[transmanche]

What is a barrier bell?

A bell that rings at the ticket barrier, when a train is ready to depart.

 

[D1009]

What is a barrier bell?

An electric bell rung by the person in charge of the platform to indicate to barrier staff to close the barriers to facilitate trains dispatch. As I recall early on with the slam door stock it was rung either at the precise second of departure time or when the signal was cleared, whichever was the later. The train departed typically 15 seconds later. If any doors were still on the catch they were kicked shut as the train pulled out. They'd probably get the sack if they tried that these days.