Rights if no room for cycle on unreservable train

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I am making a journey on split Advance tickets on Saturday evening from Bradford to Edinburgh. The Advances are Bradford-Alnmouth and Alnmouth-Edinburgh. I have just obtained cycle reservations from York for Leeds-York and York-Edinburgh (very friendly and efficient service from the clerk too).

My question is what happens in the unlikely situation that there is insufficient space for my cycle on the unreservable Northern train between Bradford and Leeds? Should probably have asked the clerk, but I forgot in my hurry to catch my connection.

Another oddity is that my (seat) reservation for the TPE service has no allocated coach and seat, like certain southern TOCs but I've not seen this before on TPE.
 
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142094

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I've seen TPE give out those types of reservation in the past, but this was when York Races were on and a lot of people would be travelling.

As for the bike on Northern - if you are left behind due to no bike space I wouldn't have thought that you could say you were delayed and use Condition 19 in this case.
 

PinzaC55

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Off the top of my head there are trains every 15 minutes Bradford to Leeds so you could turn up 20 minutes earlier than your intended train just to be sure.
 
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Off the top of my head there are trains every 15 minutes Bradford to Leeds so you could turn up 20 minutes earlier than your intended train just to be sure.
That's a good idea. My query was mainly about whether there would be a problem with my ticket validity with onward connections if I had to wait for a later train to travel with my cycle. Delay repay was a secondary concern. Indeed, if it was the last train of the evening, would the TOC provide accommodation?
 

142094

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On a non-reservable train I wouldn't have thought you'd get delay repay etc if you were delayed due to there being no room for a cycle. It is probably the case that the TOC can refuse to take your bike if the guard thinks there are too many already on board or if the train is full and standing.
 

hairyhandedfool

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If they would happily take you, but not the bike, the choice not to travel (or to get the next one) or leave the bike at the station is yours alone.
 

stut

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If they would happily take you, but not the bike, the choice not to travel (or to get the next one) or leave the bike at the station is yours alone.
How long is the train likely to remain in the station after it's been established that there's no space for a bike? Probably not long enough to find the racks and lock it up, I'd guess. In which case, it's not really an option to leave the bike behind and take that train.
 

rp91

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If you go via Shipley I'd say you'd easily have room for it. Even if the cycle spaces are full you can just leave it against a right-hand-side door.
 

GadgetMan

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If you go via Shipley I'd say you'd easily have room for it. Even if the cycle spaces are full you can just leave it against a right-hand-side door.
As a guard I can assure you it is not 'OK' to have a bike or any other obstruction at any door!!!

On my train it either gets moved to a more suitable place or ends up on the platform with a announcement to let the owner know where their belonging(s) is/are.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Ultimately it's at the guard's discretion but I've always found that so long as you're friendly and polite, they're unlikely to refuse you unless the train is absolutely rammed. As you're going on a saturday evening it shouldn't be that busy unless there's a major sporting event on.

Just for peace of mind though, I'd follow rp91's suggestion and get the train from Forster Square that goes via Shipley, as these are usually 4-car 333 units which are generally less busy and have more cycle spaces.
 

Yew

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If it helps, I have seen 6 kids get on a 156 with bikes. they managed to fit them all in the bike rack/luggage area. However this was on a off peak Robin Hood line service, so the guard would be more accepting than a busy peak service :)
 

Failed Unit

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I can't think of any that don't, but getting people to vacate the fold up seats on trains such as 313s is a lot of hastle even when the train is half full. Saying that they are DOO, the gaurds used to ask people to move on the 150/1s.

I once was told by a central trains gaurd (nicely) the only way I was getting my bike from Lincoln - Market Rasen was ride it, oh how we love 153s
 

OxtedL

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On 375s/377s etc it is impossible to call where the cycle space is going to turn up on the platform. You have about a 1 in 8 chance of getting it right.

I don't think 455s or networkers have bike spaces.
 

Failed Unit

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Networkers, Electrostars and practically every other kind of train used in the south east.
The electostars do, it is just getting the luggage out of the space as there is no-where to put it. They must have the worse overheads on the network. On think the 395s have at least solved.

Should be by the disabled toilets.
 

Bungle73

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The electostars do, it is just getting the luggage out of the space as there is no-where to put it. They must have the worse overheads on the network. On think the 395s have at least solved.

Should be by the disabled toilets.
That space is for wheelchairs is it not? It's not marked as being available for bikes, at least on Southeastern trains.
 

Failed Unit

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That space is for wheelchairs is it not? It's not marked as being available for bikes, at least on Southeastern trains.
That is where the gaurd told me to put it once between Canterbury and London, stating if a wheelchair needs it I will have to move, but as the train joins at Ashford there will be another space.

I haven't paid attention to the labels to be honest as I try to avoid that coach and go for the front or the back coach.
 
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Before Pacers and the new type DMU's there was room for many bicycles. About 6 of us used to go to St Ives, (The Stennack tested our legs a bit! - almost 2 miles of 1 in 6 hill) cycle to Lands End and return via Penzance.

Today it is not easy, lack of space, road replacement buses etc etc.
Maybe this is the answer - bit pricey though!!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-BRO...UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item1c25bce9d7#ht_831wt_1187
The protective bag is essential if taking it on public transport.
 

Stats

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That space is for wheelchairs is it not? It's not marked as being available for bikes, at least on Southeastern trains.
I'm pretty sure it is marked on southeastern trains. There are straps provided for bikes and definitely a notice saying that bikes must be secured.
 

brianthegiant

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As someone who regularly takes bikes on trains. I would say there are many situations when you have to put your bike somewhere ad-hoc
eg for shorter distances on HSTs/222s to/from MML stations with short platforms, on HST the corner of the buffet car works best. on meridians opposite the accessible loo in 1st class, generally causes least problems.

If there is a dedicated location on Chiltern / or Silverlink stock I've never found it. So it goes against the double doors & hopefully the platforms are mostly on the same side.

These inconsistencies do slightly make a mockery of the sometimes draconian attitude to cyclists elsewhere on the network.

I can understand train managers wanting to keep doors and gangways clear. Though sometimes it gets a bit excessive. I know one TM who absolutely insists bikes are strapped down in a 222 even if they know you're only on for 10 minutes.

Most TMs are a bit flexible in my experience & will allow you to squeeze a few more bikes in than designated. as long as gangways are clear. I often see 3/4 on a 158, and more on a 156, even though technically I think both are only officially designated for 2 cycles.

I would add though that I think there is an onus is on us cyclists to help TMs by being efficient, figure out whereabouts on the train we need to be (esp on long trains with dedicated space), and where possible to load bikes in the correct order ready for unloading efficiently.

I have only once been refused on with my bike for not having a reservation on a Virgin Pendo. to be fair Pendos are a special case as the door to the bike compartment requires opening with square key by guard / despatch person / driver, so the reservation system is used to know where to let cyclists off.

My worse stock for bikes is officially CC voyagers what a nightmare squeezing 2 bikes into those cupboards and hanging them up amongts the general scramble of everyone else rugby tackling to get a seat.
 

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I used to hate the 158s when they had the "cupboards" not sure if any of them have them now, scotrail don't anymore. The 156s can actually take 6. Most units are only 2. The 321s are is in the "p" coach behind one of the drivers cabs.
 

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I'm pretty sure it is marked on southeastern trains. There are straps provided for bikes and definitely a notice saying that bikes must be secured.
If it is, it's not very obvious. There's certainly nothing on the outside of trains to say to put bikes there. Once you're on the train it's a bit late.
 

deltic1989

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I'm told that cycles on trains are the discretion of the guard.
In my younger days (CT Days) I had friends in Market Rasen and elected to get the train there and take my bike, all was well on the way up but the guard refused to take my bike on the way back, which wouldnt have annoyed me but for the fact that it was a dog box with 1 passenger on board and a deserted luggage rack. The guard said in no uncertain terms on yer bike. It being the last train of the night I was forced to cycle all the way home to Lincoln, in the pitch black AND I got a puncture at Scampton AND It was persisting it down. Was not happy at all.

Hopefully in these carbon footprint consious times attitudes have relaxed.
 

Failed Unit

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If it is, it's not very obvious. There's certainly nothing on the outside of trains to say to put bikes there. Once you're on the train it's a bit late.
On a South Eastern it is a bit of blue above the doors, take a look at all the doors next time you are one and it is at the top of the door in either coach 2 or 3 (closest to the driving end rather than the middle of the coach) - If I recall it is the one with the pantograph (if the set has one)

On the Southern ones the marking is red instead of yellow in the doors.

Not very useful if you don't use them for bikes that often, but they are marked on both companies.

Back in regional railways days the light blue stripe above the window would was good, but on many TOC's it is not that easy to find them. Wouldn't have a clue where to look on a pacer for any TOC, on a sprinter they normally exist on the 57 end. The 317s are behind the driving cab, but which one?
 
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