RMT dispute on Merseyrail

[Kite159]

The latest communication has dropped

RMT Press Office

Merseyrail ‘telling desperate lies’ over Guards dispute, says RMT

MERSEYRAIL is resorting to desperate lies and distortions to hide the reality that it has lost the argument and is now also losing the strike over the need for safety-trained Guards, the network’s biggest union says today.

Following four 100-per-cent-solid days of strike action by RMT guards and drivers, and with a fifth to come on July 23, the union has condemned Merseyrail’s misinformation campaign.

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said:

“Desperate Merseyrail bosses have been touting a story that we have agreed the introduction of new driver-only routes on Great Western.

“That is simply not true. The GWR deal states quite clearly that the company has no intention of extending driver-only operation with the introduction of new Inter-City Express trains.

“Not only will every service that has a guard today continue to have one when the new IEP trains are introduced, but some services currently run driver-only will actually have guards restored – and that is RMT’s policy.

“We have already told Merseyrail that if they offer us the same deal as we have with GWR we will have the basis for agreement, because it will guarantee the second safety-critical crew member that we – and the vast majority of Merseyrail passengers – know is necessary.”

RMT North West Regional Organiser John Tilley said:

“Merseyrail are also spinning the line that we are only striking because of some diktat from London.

“That is an insult to the guards and drivers who have voted overwhelmingly for action to defend rail safety and whose wishes have been central to planning our industrial campaign.

“Anyone looking for a London link would do well to turn the spotlight on the Department for Transport, which has been orchestrating the campaign to undermine rail safety by de-staffing our railways in the interests of maximising profits.

“It was the DfT’s rail chief Peter Wilkinson who called for ‘punch-ups’ with the rail unions over driver-only operation long before our dispute began.

“RMT has already negotiated a deal with TransPennine Express to guarantee a guard on new trains being introduced at the same time as the new Merseyrail stock, so we know it can be done.

“Rather than persist with a cynical campaign of lies and distortions, Merseyrail should put get around the table to negotiate a sensible deal that puts passengers and safety ahead of its profits.”

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/merseyrail-telling-desperate-lies-over12717/


(I believe the deal with GWR is that the driver releases the doors on the new 800s with the guard closing them, similar to Virgin WC's 390s, with guards being on board the ones which operate beyond Oxford from Paddington rather than the current Turbo operated services which only gain a guard after Oxford.)

 

[northwichcat]

The RMT saying they negotiated a deal with TPE is equivalent to Labour claiming they negotiated a deal with the government to not send striking rail workers to prison - it was never on the cards. Although, we know to expect nothing less than misleading information from John Tilley.

 

[robertclark125]

It was balanced in that both sides were represented, but I thought as a PR exercise it was far more successful for Merseyrail than the RMT. The union spokesman struggled to come up with reasons why DOO was unacceptable on Merseyrail, citing the presence of level crossings on the network and then bringing up Grenfell Tower. Pretty desperate stuff.

The only comment I'll make, with regards to level crossings, is, the Tyne and Wear Metro has level crossings, some of which are on the NR/Metro joint section between Pelaw Junction and sunderland, and the Metro is DOO. Also, some of the crossings don't have barriers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(I believe the deal with GWR is that the driver releases the doors on the new 800s with the guard closing them, similar to Virgin WC's 390s, with guards being on board the ones which operate beyond Oxford from Paddington rather than the current Turbo operated services which only gain a guard after Oxford.)

Driver-released doors is a good system and one I support for the bulk of the network, particularly any train where the guard is selling the majority of the tickets. Of course, it's what GTR had before the whole faff started over there.

But I still don't think Merseyrail needs guards any more than LUL does. If you want to staff it up, platform staff would be much more use.

 

[M28361M]

Strike timetable released for 23 July.

Morning services to the Open Golf:

Southport-Hillside every 15 minutes from 0900-1230 (non-stop)
Liverpool Central-Hillside every 15 minutes from 0900-1230 (departures at xx00 and xx30 also call at Blundellsands & Crosby, xx15 and xx45 are non-stop)

Evening return services:

Hillside-Southport every 15 minutes from 1735-2020 (non-stop)
Hillside-Liverpool Central every 15 minutes from 1710-2055 (all services call at Blundellsands & Crosby)

No other Merseyrail services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's much reduced from even National day. Are more now striking than before?

 

[northwichcat]

23rd July is a Sunday. The Grand National strike was on a Saturday.

 

[footprints]

That's much reduced from even National day. Are more now striking than before?

Presumably the longer journey time from Liverpool to Hillside will have had some impact on the number of services they can operate in comparison to Aintree, plus they're also running services between Southport and Hillside, while on Grand National Day there were buses from Ormskirk and Maghull to Old Roan.

I'm surprised they won't be running trains every seven and a half minutes on the Southport line though given there's no service anywhere else on the network.

 

[Carlisle]

The latest communication has dropped from glorious leader Cashro



https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/merseyrail-telling-desperate-lies-over12717/


(I believe the deal with GWR is that the driver releases the doors on the new 800s with the guard closing them, similar to Virgin WC's 390s, with guards being on board the ones which operate beyond Oxford from Paddington rather than the current Turbo operated services which only gain a guard after Oxford.)

So it's fair to say GWR have quietly backed down completely therefore the RMT have completely won the GWR dispute seeing as the drivers aren't even closing the doors on any of the IEP stock

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it's fair to say GWR have quietly backed down completely therefore the RMT have completely won the GWR dispute seeing as the drivers aren't even closing the doors on any of the IEP stock

It would seem so. I'm not aware of any massive objection to driver release, indeed it makes guards' lives rather easier if they have to do revenue.

 

[Carlisle]

It would seem so. I'm not aware of any massive objection to driver release, indeed it makes guards' lives rather easier if they have to do revenue.

True, but if much of the industry merely appeases these hardline union positions its going to be very much more difficult for TOCs like Merseyrail to ever get their proposed changes through successfully, remember the number of strike days on Southern last year rose significantly once Scotrail conceded to union pressure on DOO/DCO

 

[Bletchleyite]

True, but if much of the industry merely appeases these hardline union positions its going to be very much more difficult for TOCs like Merseyrail to ever get their proposed changes through successfully, remember the number of strike days on Southern last year rose significantly once Scotrail conceded to union pressure on DOO/DCO

Fair point, though DOO does remain on the GWR EMU services which are as close to equivalent to Merseyrail as you get on GWR.

 

[74A]

IEP which are just going to Oxford will operate DOO. IEP that are going beyond Oxford to Worcester etc will have a guard from Paddington.

 

[Carlisle]

Thanks for the clarification on that one

 

[weastebusdepot]

I'm surprised they won't be running trains every seven and a half minutes on the Southport line though given there's no service anywhere else on the network.

It will be dependent on there being enough drivers available with route knowledge for that line.

 

[danbarnstall]

What happens if the golf ends in a play off?.

 

[jamesst]

What happens if the golf ends in a play off?.

The local buses will take a hammering!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

With 507's & 508's you can always move to a different carriage if other anti-social passengers are making you fell uncomfortable or worse. The new stock will not have dividing doors between carriages so yobs will be able to see and run unhindered along the full length of the train. That it why it is important to have a second member of staff on board at all times.

 

[Moonshot]

With 507's & 508's you can always move to a different carriage if other anti-social passengers are making you fell uncomfortable or worse. The new stock will not have dividing doors between carriages so yobs will be able to see and run unhindered along the full length of the train. That it why it is important to have a second member of staff on board at all times.

Would passenger accept a BTP prescence instead of a guard?

 

[Bungle965]

Would passenger accept a BTP prescence instead of a guard?

Would the BTP be on every single service however?
Sam

 

[Moonshot]

Would the BTP be on every single service however?
Sam

If guards were replaced like for like then yes.....that was actually the point I was making.

 

[Bungle965]

If guards were replaced like for like then yes.....that was actually the point I was making.

Then what is benefit over not keeping the guard?
Sam

 

[Moonshot]

Then what is benefit over not keeping the guard?
Sam

Visiblity and the power of arrest for starters.

 

[jamesst]

If guards were replaced like for like then yes.....that was actually the point I was making.

Haha and you really believe that? Ask any member of rail staff about how 'good' BTP are!!!

 

[Moonshot]

Haha and you really believe that? Ask any member of rail staff about how 'good' BTP are!!!

Surely it should be the passengers who are asked ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

With 507's & 508's you can always move to a different carriage if other anti-social passengers are making you fell uncomfortable or worse. The new stock will not have dividing doors between carriages so yobs will be able to see and run unhindered along the full length of the train. That it why it is important to have a second member of staff on board at all times.

The whole idea of the "open" thing is that it feels safer. If it doesn't, they should add vestibule doors - the Polish FLIRTs have these so they are an option.

 

[fowler9]

Visiblity and the power of arrest for starters.

So then, police on every train instead of a guard. Why not army reservists with rifles?

 

[Bookd]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

 

[northwichcat]

Recent posts make Merseyrail sound like a war zone - I can only be grateful that I don't live there!

From my experience the Chester to Liverpool, Liverpool to West Kirkby and Hunts Cross to Southport routes are all very safe to use Mon-Sat daytime - I've never used late services or Sunday services.

 

[Robertj21a]

With 507's & 508's you can always move to a different carriage if other anti-social passengers are making you fell uncomfortable or worse. The new stock will not have dividing doors between carriages so yobs will be able to see and run unhindered along the full length of the train. That it why it is important to have a second member of staff on board at all times.

Sorry, that's a crazy over-reaction. Do you think other operations in the UK, or abroad, employ extra staff on every train 'just in case' ?