Would it not come down to another one of those situations where they start to advise customers not to travel? Like during the near hurricane winds we had sometime last year when customers were advised not to travel.?
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RMT dispute on XC
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Would it not come down to another one of those situations where they start to advise customers not to travel? Like during the near hurricane winds we had sometime last year when customers were advised not to travel.?
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
So far I think the only XC passenger service which has arrived at Piccadilly from New Street has been 1T34 1157 Birmingham New Street to Manchester Piccadilly with 1Z38 1111 Reading to Manchester Piccadilly set to be the second around 40 minutes behind schedule.
Any idea of the severity? Is this like to impact service tomorrow?
D1009
Established Member
That was 1Z55 0935 Newcastle to Bristol TM (1312 from New Street), which spent nearly 90 minutes in the middle platform at Bromsgrove. While it was there the following train 1Z56 0908 Edinburgh to Bristol TM ran to Bromsgrove, and I am guessing transferred its passengers to 1Z55 before returning to Brum to form a northbound service, which caused the overcrowding on 1Z55. The first train actually affected was the late running Daventry to Wentloog Tesco container train, which was held at Abbotswood. I've no idea what its 5hr late arrival did to the Tesco supply chain.
After the above, the next through train south was 1Z68 1508 Edinburgh to Bristol TM (2012 from New St), and the couple of subsequent trains in both directions ran as booked.
The special timetables for 23rd/24th December have now been posted and the Saturday service is an improvement on the last one.
There's an hourly service on the core of the NE/SW route, all via Leeds, not Doncaster but with EMT services from Sheffield to London reduced to one tph, the XC and EMT southbound departures from SHF are 6 mins. apart followed by a 54 minute gap. Not ideal but unavoidable I suppose!
There's an hourly service on the core of the NE/SW route, all via Leeds, not Doncaster but with EMT services from Sheffield to London reduced to one tph, the XC and EMT southbound departures from SHF are 6 mins. apart followed by a 54 minute gap. Not ideal but unavoidable I suppose!
Noticed this tweet earlier (posted yesterday):
Its a late kick off (17:30), so the match is expected to finish at 19:25 ish.
Not many options on this one but, if they are prepared to get back to Witton station quickly, then:
Witton d 19:36
New Street a 19:46
New Street d 20:03 *
Derby a 20:41
From there its an East Midlands train at either 20:48 or 22:05.
* The 20:03 from New Street is a Cross Country train which, in the strike timetable, is timetabled to terminate at Derby.
Its a late kick off (17:30), so the match is expected to finish at 19:25 ish.
Not many options on this one but, if they are prepared to get back to Witton station quickly, then:
Witton d 19:36
New Street a 19:46
New Street d 20:03 *
Derby a 20:41
From there its an East Midlands train at either 20:48 or 22:05.
* The 20:03 from New Street is a Cross Country train which, in the strike timetable, is timetabled to terminate at Derby.
Spankthemonkey
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Apparently the two sides are now at acas in an attempt to get this resolved.
Moderator note: moved from How are XC coping not doing ticket checks?
Any end in sight ? I thought they were in constructive talks
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221129
Established Member
They were until XC walked out.
dk1
Veteran Member
Sadly none whatsoever mate. No give on either side.
221129
Established Member
Not really....
Tom Quinne
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Plenty of RDW as they, like all TOCs rely on overtime to cover the basic service.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/30/long-running-disputes-disrupt-newyears-eve-rail-services/
Six comments on the article from the public, all of them show no support of the actions the RMT are taking.
Note XC staff have been offered a 48% increase on their current overtime rate for Sunday working and so far, haven't accepted the deal. Are XC Train Managers holding out for a better deal?
It does seem that rail staff have taken the Christmas and New Year period as the golden opportunity to cause chaos and try to take as much cash for themselves as possible.
We all know that given a big enough sum of money, any safety concerns can be vanished for a year or two..
Six comments on the article from the public, all of them show no support of the actions the RMT are taking.
Note XC staff have been offered a 48% increase on their current overtime rate for Sunday working and so far, haven't accepted the deal. Are XC Train Managers holding out for a better deal?
It does seem that rail staff have taken the Christmas and New Year period as the golden opportunity to cause chaos and try to take as much cash for themselves as possible.
We all know that given a big enough sum of money, any safety concerns can be vanished for a year or two..
I believe you'll find the issue isn't so much the Sunday premium. The RMT wants Sundays in the working week with an appropriate pay increase to cover the extra working day. The company wants to continue covering them with overtime to allow a lower staff headcount presumably as it's at the end of the franchise so won't get any return for the additional outlay. The additional point of the RMT being a long term tactic of in case of an unsuccessful DOO dispute in later years Sundays are already in with the payrise rather than the company sneaking it in for any replacement grade without a pay increase.
It is complicated. However the number of staff not turning up for work (I believe a grand total of 1 senior conductor reported for duty on a given day a week or two ago) seems to suggest the staff are behind their union on this.
Regardless of that there appears to have been a staffing issue for some time at XC - even before this dispute cancellations due to lack of driver as well as guard have been commonplace especially in places like Cornwall and Scotland.
Hardly surprising!
Incidentally, is it correct to describe as a "strike" staff not volunteering to work on a day outside their contracted hours?
Yes - there have been strikes on Wednesdays and Saturadays too.
221129
Established Member
Yes but today is not a strike.
If it sounds like a duck and quacks like a duck..
We've heard it over and over again, "XC staff are simply taking their contracted day off" and are completely innocent in all of this. If that were true, why have strikes been called for week days and Saturdays?
XC staff are refusing to work Sundays and calling strikes during the week in a bid to strong arm XC into including Sunday into their working week. Before accepting this, they'll expect an increase in wage from XC. Result is - XC train managers are earning what they would have been with the overtime, without having to work the overtime anymore. Less hours, same pay.
This is a lousy attempt by XC staff to increase their pay packet for less work. If staff were genuinely concerned for their work life balance as the unions claim they are, they would simply refuse the Sunday working and leave it at that.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Inconvenient truth mr 1e10? XC staff aren't on strike. The employer would very quickly rush to law if a strike were to be wrongly constituted. Odd that they & thier chums arent so keen to be held to the same standards .......
221129
Established Member
Not sure where you got that info from.... The RMT and XC were ready to strike a deal until XC walked out and took it back.
I like the way you make it sound like XC staff are after 'less hours, same pay' (sic).
The fact of the matter is that the dispute is actually about how many hours are worked each week. Currently they have a working week spread over 6 days a week, and then are expected to work overtime on Sundays in order to cover the service. The RMT's position is that Sundays should be inside the working week, ie a working week spread over 7 days - starting point for which is the same number of hours over 7 days rather than 6. There is no suggestion of any aversion to working Sundays per se.
What the RMT are working to achieve in this instance for their members is a working week spread over 7 days. The reason the company won't want to do this is that the logical conclusion is that further traincrew would be required to cover the resulting roster, and the cost of this is not the same as paying overtime on an ongoing basis due to the overheads of having additional staff.
So the truth of the matter is that its not about 'fewer hours for the same money' its actually about 'contracted weekly hours over 7 days, with no business as usual overtime for Sundays' the net result of which, will be less pay (less overtime) for fewer hours (less overtime).
I assume then that while Sunday will be overtime you will have to work it under XC proposals. Are the RMT striking because XC will change you contracts to make this happen ?
XC are changing contracts - the unions are pressurig them to do so because it will benefit their members.
Currently XC staff work their average week over Monday to Saturday and have overtime available on the Sunday.
What the unions are proposing is XC staff work their average week over Monday to Sunday and are no longer required to work overtime for the Sunday. They’ll expect an increase in wage for accepting these terms they’re asking for, so they’ll likely be as well off as they were whilst working overtime, except now they don’t have to get out of bed for it!
theironroad
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My understanding is that the dispute is nothing to do with bringing Sundays fully within the working week but how the Sunday overtime is covered.
Currently, I understand, if the TM is shown as working a overtime sunday in the base roster and doesn't want to work it, they notify their roster department and it is upto the rostering team to find alternative cover for that Sunday duty.
XC drivers have 'committed' Sundays, also overtime outside the core working week. If a driver doesn't want to work their Sunday they are committed to it unless they can find a fellow driver to work it for them. The onus is all on the driver to sort the cover out, not the rostering team.
My understanding is that xc want to bring the TM arrangements in line with the drivers, moving all to 'committed'' Sundays and this is the core of the dispute. This is what a couple of xc drivers have told me, but happy to be corrected by a xc TM or someone at the heart of the dispute.
Currently, I understand, if the TM is shown as working a overtime sunday in the base roster and doesn't want to work it, they notify their roster department and it is upto the rostering team to find alternative cover for that Sunday duty.
XC drivers have 'committed' Sundays, also overtime outside the core working week. If a driver doesn't want to work their Sunday they are committed to it unless they can find a fellow driver to work it for them. The onus is all on the driver to sort the cover out, not the rostering team.
My understanding is that xc want to bring the TM arrangements in line with the drivers, moving all to 'committed'' Sundays and this is the core of the dispute. This is what a couple of xc drivers have told me, but happy to be corrected by a xc TM or someone at the heart of the dispute.
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