RMT vote 4 to 1 to strike over NR pay

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by The Planner, 12 May 2015.

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  1. swills

    swills Established Member

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    There are some Signallers who are TSSA, some joined when they were dis-enchanted with the actions of the RMT last time, and of course there are now some Signallers in UNITE
     
  2. misterredmist

    misterredmist Member

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    Well I can understand why ANY deal fixed to "inflation" has been rejected , at current rates they'd be receiving pay cuts !

    All in all, although strikes generally p*ss me off , If the NR Staff are having the mickey taken out of them, and being offered unfair terms and prospects, then I wish them well, especially if the NT "Management" have had their faces in the trough for more rewards

    - if, on the other hand, they are already well renumerated and are trying it on, then I wouldn't support them.....

    I just don't know enough about it.....
     
  3. alxndr

    alxndr Member

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    I'm fairly sure I read at some point (although who knows which offer it was in) that it was promised it would not drop if inflation dropped below 0%.

    I think a large factor which isn't really talked about has been the no compulsory redundancies, which is a big thing for signallers in boxes facing being closed in favour of ROCs. And knowing the way some of them have been treated in relocation agreements I don't blame them.
     
  4. driver_m

    driver_m Established Member

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    You could always look up the pay grades for a signaller for example and then compare that to other grades within the industry. They used to on a similar wage to a driver in BR days but have now fell behind that and are now comparable to that of a guard or even catering grades. Considering the power that signallers have to stop the network they have been remarkably passive about the pay difference to us (IMO).

    One other thing to bear in mind is that the signallers always have to take the lead in conversations with rail staff, I would not like to have to have the pressure of knowing you have to make snap decisions and be right 100% of the time at all times of the day. I hope that people will see that and not judge them harshly before getting the facts about this strike action.
     
  5. High Dyke

    High Dyke Established Member

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    The National Ops Strategy has seen many experienced staff made redundant through voluntary severance. It therefore seems a touch ironic that NR have employed about 200 new starters to train as signallers for the vacancies that they couldn't fill through PTR&R agreements.
     
  6. dysonsphere

    dysonsphere Member

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    Hmmm if you have a ticket bought before the strike date was announced what are youre rights I wonder. Taxi to finish youre journey, full refund with comp as its not youre fault, or tough luck mate
     
  7. carriageline

    carriageline Established Member

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    But if the people don't want to relocate or even apply for the jobs, what can they do? Our place has 11 vacancies to do with a brand new panel being re controlled. All of which have gone external, as no one from the box it's coming from wanted to come with it, and they are getting very little interest internally.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Refunds will be offered if you choose not to travel because of disruption, just like any other disruption. But apparently nowt for season ticket holders, which I would love to see tested in court.
     
  9. HockeyChris

    HockeyChris Member

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    What I don't understand is that it seems that unless you don't agree with certain people on this site you don't know what you are talking about and you are certainly not allowed an opinion without being talked down to. I am fairly certain we don't live in a communist state and we are entitled to free speech and free thought.

    I haven't had a pay rise in years, I work hard to deliver the service that I deliver. I don't believe in striking, I think in a way it is selfish, you are dirsupting peoples lives who are in no way responsible for the dispute between the unions and Network Rail, if you had an effective and reasonable union there would be no need for a strike.

    And for those who will say 'you don't know what you are talking about' I have experience of the fall out of a strike. I was serving in the RAF in Cyprus when the big fire strike happened, we were called back to the UK to cover the strike on the Green Goddesses, as we arrived back in the UK, the fire service were off out to cover the airfield in Cyprus on £450 a day!! So whilst I was getting bricks thrown at me whilst fighting fires in Liverpool, they were on 'strike' earning a fortune in Cyprus.

    I don't normally post on here but this subject has really really wound me up, I have no problem whether you agree with my opinion or not and if you don't I certainly won't talk down to you or make you feel inferior for doing so
     
  10. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    So what other options have they got other than industrial action to protect their conditions and better their pay online with their increased productivity?

    Or should they just lie down and let management remove their conditions and look back in a few years time (like any other industries are now doing) and realise they have very little left and no chance of getting it back?

    Once again your post adds to a list of posts suggesting that because you don't have something no one else should. All workers should have to lower themselves to your level as trying to protect or better their lot may inconvenience you.
     
  11. HockeyChris

    HockeyChris Member

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    I work work with people who have nothing, sometimes no house, no job, no prospects and some would give there all for a minimum wage job and enjoy every second without complaining, life is not fair, sometimes we have to crack on and get on with it without making a lot of peoples lives miserable. But I sense we are not going to agree and from the last part of your response it shows that I am not allowed to have an opinion that differs to yours. I genuinely hope this strikes achieves what people want it to achieve otherwise it will have been a pointless waste of time
     
  12. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Surely if they reached the deadline it could be the crews job to taxi back as they are on strike.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Is that photo from the time they last went on strike? Perhaps it's of the strike period itself! Some how I doubt it.
     
  13. steverailer

    steverailer Member

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    The point I was making was that they're not only ailenating against the general public, but also the people who they will be working with on a regular basis. If this goes ahead NWR will cancel the machines and men before the cut off that they have to pay for them (48hrs with my co). TBH it will probably be a last minute descision again so we can't plan anything just incase they call it off at the 11th hour and we're expected to work as normal.
     
  14. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

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    Are you really happy with that situation? That means that your pay, in real terms, has been declining year after year, and presumably your standard of living to go with it. The problem, as I see it, is that the majority of people are content to roll over and accept it, in the belief that they're lucky to have a job at all - in many cases, whilst their employers continue to make healthy profits. If everyone stuck together and stood up for themselves and others, perhaps things would improve for all of us - rather than criticising those who are trying to maintain their own pay and conditions whilst letting their own decline without a fight.
     
  15. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Hmmm, perhaps you could show me where I have said I don't respect your opinion or believe you should be allowed one?! I rather suspect that you are saying that as you don't wish to argue your point properly so are throwing in the old "what's the point of arguing with you as you clearly don't think people should have differing opinions..."!

    Yes thee are people with nothing who would love minimum wage work. They want it as it betters their lot. Once they get it they would want to better themselves further and increase their wage whilst reducing their workload. It's human nature.

    I think it largely irrelevant what other people have or don't have anyway. If everyone looked at people worse off than themselves and thought "well I'm doing better than them so I won't bother trying to better myself" then no one would get anywhere and things would constantly get worse for everyone. Do you think that those on 6fingure salaries at the top of NR or millionaires etc look at minimum wage people and think "well I'm doing better than them so I don't see any point making more money"?!

    This strike is about improving and protecting the group of workers. It is selfish, of course it is. But they have to be to protecting their conditions, jobs and wages. Comparing them to people with no home, no income etc is irrelevant. Why not compare those people you work with to the government ministers who are largely millionaires?
     
  16. Darren R

    Darren R Established Member

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    The BBC are reporting that talks are scheduled for Monday.

    (Sorry, I'm posting from my phone so I can't post a link.)
     
  17. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    Costs my good man. Cheaper to train up people than it is to move others across.

    Yeah I get that and I do feel sorry for you in that respect however, and I am really not being rude, it is my view that you should work for NR anyway as contractors certainly do take a nice fat bit of money out of the industry just by their very existence.
     
  18. swills

    swills Established Member

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    Is this not part of the problem that the RMT/NR are facing ? Staff want a job, but rightly or wrongly they do not want to move to another area ! I read a post from a Signalman from London Bridge that when they move to the ROC, after those that got other jobs through PTR&R and those that just wanted to leave, there were not enough to man the ROC so need them off the street. When our SB got extended in 2009 / 2010 there were not enough internal applicants so we took some 4 or 5 from outside the Railway. People do not want to move, that I can understand, but it will come to the point that if you don't, then you will not have a job, and will have to take redundancy. Having said all that, we should not let NR ride roughshod over T&C's lets hope that NR/RMT can come to a solution, I don't think they are that far apart, when you talk to staff it seems if they £500 consolidate and a slight move on the RPI (plus 0.5% ?) issue will solve it? they also need an agreed timetable to discuss any future changes to PTR&R
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Monday week, so not long ! lets hope they don't just sit around in their offices, and thrash this out now and get it sorted.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  19. westv

    westv Established Member

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    I suppose I'll just have to wait and see if my Tueday morning HTs journey is screwed. Right royal PITA if it is and likely to lose a day's pay if I can't get in.
     
  20. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    Force majeure innit.
     
  21. coxy

    coxy Member

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    If the strike were to go ahead, how would delay repayments to the impacted TOCs and FOCs be calculated, since they wish to run their scheduled services, but are unable due to NR action ?
     
  22. carriageline

    carriageline Established Member

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    If NR want to save money, then scrap this ROC project. AFAIK The schemes are costing more than estimates, and the majority of them won't reduce staffing levels, and in some cases actually increase costs and the wage bill.

    Move all the smaller boxes into PSBs, and keep PSBs. That's where the savings are
     
  23. duffield

    duffield Member

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  24. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    I guess if the strike goes ahead, the Pathfinder tour I'm booked on (Salisbury to Liverpool) will be cancelled
     
  25. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Without debating the rights and wrongs of that, the ROC programme will keep going as it reduces OpEx which is treated differently to CapEx. I doubt you could move a lot into most PSBs as they are reaching 50 odd years old and the wires are degrading.
     
  26. 33056

    33056 Established Member

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    Can't find anything on the BBC website (or anywhere else right now) but I have seen a text from the RMT stating that talks will be taking place at ACAS on Monday (18th)

    EDIT:

    Just found it on the RMT website
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2015
  27. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

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    Rats! I've got a gig in Camden to attend on the Tuesday evening.
     
  28. High Dyke

    High Dyke Established Member

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    And don't forget that, at least, two of them aren't alledgedly big enough. Plans to have them enlarged have been turned down the respective local councils. :roll:
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Here it is.
    There may be a possibility any industrial action is suspended pending ongoing talks.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Debatable. Certainly in insurance policies "industrial dispute" tends to feature separately from genuine "force majeure" which is something that is by definition totally out of the TOC's control. I would argue strike action is within the TOC's control as it is a direct result of a policy of theirs (and the union's dislike of said policy).

    But I didn't hear any airline refusing to refund peoples' fares if they didn't travel during the ash cloud incident, and that genuinely *was* force majeure.

    OTOH I would not expect Delay Repay if there was a limited service and I did travel.
     
  30. gavin

    gavin Member

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    TSAA Update

    The strike action will be discontinuous and will take place on the dates set out below.

    Following our successful ballot for industrial action and action short of strike, TSSA members within Bands 5-8 and equivalent and Controller Grades are now instructed by the General Secretary to participate in industrial action acting with the authority of the ballot that closed on 15 May 2015.

    Thanks to those of you who helped ensure the majority of our members participated in the ballot giving us a resounding mandate with a 52% turnout.
    Details of action to be taken

    The strike action will be discontinuous and will take place on the dates set out below:

    Members who would otherwise book on for any shift between 17:00 hours on 25 May 2015 until 16:59 hours on 26 May 2015 will be instructed not to do so.

    The industrial action short of strike will be discontinuous and will take place on the dates set out below:

    Members will be instructed to take action short of strike from 00:01 hours on 25 May 2015 until 23:59 hours on 26 May 2015. Members will be called upon not to work any overtime, additional hours, extended shifts or undertake any callouts between 00:01 hours on 25 May 2015 until 23:59 hours on 26 May 2015.

    On this basis industrial action will also take place on 27 May 2015 in respect of any shifts that commence prior to 16:59 on 26 May 2015 and run into 27 May 2015 and any overtime, additional hours, extended shifts or callouts that commence prior to 23:59 on 26 May 2015 and would run into 27 May 2015.
    Further talks

    As a result of the overwhelming outcome of the ballot and planned industrial action served upon Network Rail, TSSA has now been invited to attend talks under the auspices of ACAS on Monday 18 May. Your national representatives will be meeting prior to this.

    The planned action will go ahead subject to the outcome of talks held.

    We will keep members informed of any developments. Further guidance will be issued relating to industrial action. In the meantime, please direct any queries to your Reps or the Members’ Helpdesk.

    http://www.tssa.org.uk/en/whats-new/news/index.cfm/strike-date-set-at-network-rail
     
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