Route closure leading to greatest strategic loss

[Arglwydd Golau]

Moat Lane - Aberhonddu/Brecon - Merthyr

Trains from the top of Wales to the bottom now have to go through England

The main through route from the North Wales Coast has always been via Crewe, Shrewsbury and Hereford

 

[Glenn1969]

Spen Valley. Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike are sizeable small towns and Bradford North-South connectivity is nowhere near what it should be

 

[edwin_m]

Spen Valley. Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike are sizeable small towns and Bradford North-South connectivity is nowhere near what it should be

How did the Spen Valley, entirely south of Bradford, improve connectivity to the north of Bradford?

 

[Glenn1969]

I mean Bradford to Wakefield and beyond which now can't be done without going several miles in the wrong direction first

 

[30907]

Your post implies there were no services between Edinburgh and Manchester/Birmingham prior to the northern WCML electrification either, so one probably wouldn't have been put on via the Waverley route during WCML closures.

I have found a timetable year (71-72) when the Beattock route was closed as Taunton describes until late afternoon. Before that and at ĺeast from 1973 the principal route from Edinburgh, and significantly faster, was always that way. The Waverley route's only expresses were the day and night trains over the ex Midland.

I mean Bradford to Wakefield and beyond which now can't be done without going several miles in the wrong direction first

True, but you went via the ex GNR route not the Spen Valley.

IMO the one closure that we now should most regret is March-Spalding - but could anyone in 1980 have foreseen the emergence of the present freight flows from Felixstowe?

 

[trebor79]

IMO the one closure that we now should most regret is March-Spalding - but could anyone in 1980 have foreseen the emergence of the present freight flows from Felixstowe?

Not without a crystal ball. Although most of the route it still available other than on the bit through Spalding and some industrial unit built on the trackbed at Guyhirn. With the low land value one does wonder why it wasn't simply mothballed (in the same way that the Leamside Line was a decade later) rather than torn up and bridges demolished.

 

[edwin_m]

Not without a crystal ball. Although most of the route it still available other than on the bit through Spalding and some industrial unit built on the trackbed at Guyhirn. With the low land value one does wonder why it wasn't simply mothballed (in the same way that the Leamside Line was a decade later) rather than torn up and bridges demolished.

There's also the minor matter of HM Prison at the north end of the old Whitemoor yard.

 

[trebor79]

There is that, but I'm sure that could have been built slightly different if the railway was still there, and even now it wouldn't be too much of a deal to reroute to one side of it.
Let's face it, HMP Whitemoor is there precisely because it was a large piece of flat, essentially valueless government owned land, which kind of illustrates my point about it having been torn up in a hurry for no real reason.

 

[Stathern Jc]

<cough> see post #48

Apologies for inadvertant plagiarism.
Definitely would have been interesting to have seen what developments might have been possible on the GC in terms of increasing line speeds North of Sheffield. No doubt at all about directness South of Sheffield, but missing out Derby probably condemned it regardless.

 

[Taunton]

And quite right too. Tavistock has been greatly disadvantaged by the closure.

To such an extent that all the mainstream recent development of the town has taken place on the opposite side of the River Tavy from where the old Southern station was, way beyond walking distance, and right on the road to Plymouth (which Tavistock is nowadays a pleasant commuter town for). The old station site, high up on a hillside, is well out of it. Reopening "suggestions" commonly think that just because a station is called "Tavistock", it's somehow located conveniently for all who live or work in Tavistock.

 

[Irascible]

I'd probably also have to say the Varsity line but that's coming from someone who doesn't know the north. Losing the LSWR Dartmoor route has cost a few weeks of zero connections to a county and a half over the years so you can't just throw it out, but on the other hand it's a few weeks in 50 years, not 50 years total.

Tiverton made me chuckle. I had the dubious fortune of growing up there, basically everyone wanted to go to Exeter so you'd have wanted the whole junct-Exeter loop, and most of that was slow. The strategic loss was not routing the B&ER main line through Tiverton & down the Exe valley in the first place.

 

[yorksrob]

To such an extent that all the mainstream recent development of the town has taken place on the opposite side of the River Tavy from where the old Southern station was, way beyond walking distance, and right on the road to Plymouth (which Tavistock is nowadays a pleasant commuter town for). The old station site, high up on a hillside, is well out of it. Reopening "suggestions" commonly think that just because a station is called "Tavistock", it's somehow located conveniently for all who live or work in Tavistock.

Yeovil Junction is some way away from Yeovil, but people there still find it useful.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The stations could be called 'Yeovil Road', 'Tavistock Road', etc with a note of the distance to the town they purport to serve

 

[yorksrob]

I'd probably also have to say the Varsity line but that's coming from someone who doesn't know the north. Losing the LSWR Dartmoor route has cost a few weeks of zero connections to a county and a half over the years so you can't just throw it out, but on the other hand it's a few weeks in 50 years, not 50 years total.

Tiverton made me chuckle. I had the dubious fortune of growing up there, basically everyone wanted to go to Exeter so you'd have wanted the whole junct-Exeter loop, and most of that was slow. The strategic loss was not routing the B&ER main line through Tiverton & down the Exe valley in the first place.

There's clearly still an aspiration to serve the place, given the distantly located Tiverton "Parkway" (and to think that some say that Tavistock North isn't within walking distance of it's town !).

I'd have kept the Tivvy bumper for IC connections North and South.

 

[Irascible]

There's clearly still an aspiration to serve the place, given the distantly located Tiverton "Parkway" (and to think that some say that Tavistock North isn't within walking distance of it's town !).

I'd have kept the Tivvy bumper for IC connections North and South.

I would have shut the Exe Valley line north of Tiverton, done some minor work to upgrade line speeds to say 60 where possible, and then extended the Bristol-Taunton trains down it to Exeter. Used to double up the buses to Exeter in the mornings after the line was closed until everyone got cars & finding a parking place in Exeter became a combat sport. Jct station was a rather under-used, wistful, sad and smelly ( thanks to being build next to an abbatoir ) place befoire closure, and I generally found myself almost alone on the bus by the time it reached Parkway...

"Useful diversionary route!" ahem. Well, it was very occasionally

 

[Taunton]

Yeovil Junction is some way away from Yeovil, but people there still find it useful.

Or not ...

TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

2 HAPS also ....sometimes 4 of them coupled together - giving 8 cabs and 4 brakevans ! There was at one time (1983 or so) a Basingstoke/Alton divider (into Woking around 1800) which was six (!) HAPs coupled together, 3 going to Basingstoke and 3 going to Alton.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[6Gman]

Moat Lane - Aberhonddu/Brecon - Merthyr

Trains from the top of Wales to the bottom now have to go through England

Given that going from the largest settlement in North Wales to the largest settlement in South Wales via England is significantly faster than anything via Moat Lane would be in what way is this a strategic loss?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The main through route from the North Wales Coast has always been via Crewe, Shrewsbury and Hereford

Much though the enthusiast sector misses the decimation of all 4 routes to Brecon - they were incredibly lightly patronised and apart from the much debated Ammonia tanks to Dowlais - there was no through freight of any consequence , - unlike the North and West route which has always seen long distance flows of all kinds (even in the dark days of the 1970's) - these deeply rural lines had frankly more railway men on duty than passengers.

You could say much the same for Carmarthen to Aberystwyth. Bit of milk traffic - but retained until that industry changed its marketing and distribution.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That being said, I'd add my vote to the Didcot Newbury and Southampton railway.

A useful local link, but only ever a single-track low-grade rural route to Winchester with poor connections along the way.
Container trains crossing all lines on the flat at Didcot and Newbury would be awkward (there was a flying junction southbound at Winchester).
Today's route (with a fast connection at Didcot and grade separation at Reading) is a good solution, if longer.

It was a lovely route though.
I played a game of cricket in a beautiful ground next to the DN&S railway in Whitchurch (Hants) in 1962, not long after the southern half of the line closed.
Never thought to travel on the Didcot-Newbury section before it closed later in 1962 though.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A useful local link, but only ever a single-track low-grade rural route to Winchester with poor connections along the way.
Container trains crossing all lines on the flat at Didcot and Newbury would be awkward (there was a flying junction southbound at Winchester).
Today's route (with a fast connection at Didcot and grade separation at Reading) is a good solution, if longer.

It was a lovely route though.
I played a game of cricket in a beautiful ground next to the DN&S railway in Whitchurch (Hants) in 1962, not long after the southern half of the line closed.
Never thought to travel on the Didcot-Newbury section before it closed later in 1962 though.

Very strategic for about 12 weeks in 1944 , otherwise a very local line as you say. Selective upgrades even before the successful Reading works (Basingstoke and re-signalling from the latter to Reading, where I insisted on 3 aspects vice 2 , plus good enhancements at Eastleigh on the down) , have certainly made the existing routes more functional.

 

[Taunton]

Container trains crossing all lines on the flat at Didcot and Newbury would be awkward (there was a flying junction southbound at Winchester).
Today's route (with a fast connection at Didcot and grade separation at Reading) is a good solution, if longer.

The DN&S was never a significant or through route. Sure it was beefed up in its northern half in WW2 as a strategic alternative to the South Coast invasion ports, but otherwise was just local pick-up freight. It has also lost a considerable amount of its alignment to the A34 road. The junctions at Didcot (especially) and Newbury were a right nuisance to main line traffic.

George Behrend, railway author, lived on it in the 1930s-60s, and wrote that traffic was thin to non-existent - takings of 6 pence in a week at his local station. And that was the OLD sixpence!

If you want a worthwhile strategic improvement along the route, put in a high speed flyover from the Main lines from Reading right across to the Didcot Avoider to Oxford.

 

[yorksrob]

I would have shut the Exe Valley line north of Tiverton, done some minor work to upgrade line speeds to say 60 where possible, and then extended the Bristol-Taunton trains down it to Exeter. Used to double up the buses to Exeter in the mornings after the line was closed until everyone got cars & finding a parking place in Exeter became a combat sport. Jct station was a rather under-used, wistful, sad and smelly ( thanks to being build next to an abbatoir ) place befoire closure, and I generally found myself almost alone on the bus by the time it reached Parkway...

"Useful diversionary route!" ahem. Well, it was very occasionally

Now there's a thought ! I quite like the idea of a Tiverton loop. Such a service could have picked up Wellington as well !

Or not ...

TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

2 HAPS also ....sometimes 4 of them coupled together - giving 8 cabs and 4 brakevans ! There was at one time (1983 or so) a Basingstoke/Alton divider (into Woking around 1800) which was six (!) HAPs coupled together, 3 going to Basingstoke and 3 going to Alton.

www.railforums.co.uk

Apologies for my lack of lateral thinking - Keen as I am on HAP units I don't see the link to Yeovil Junction !

 

[Taunton]

Now there's a thought ! I quite like the idea of a Tiverton loop. Such a service could have picked up Wellington as well !

The Tiverton loop was actually "Red", for the larger GWR locos, at limited speed, because of a history of flooding on the main line from the Rivers Culm and the upper Exe - though it could do nothing for Cowley Bridge. Last used as such in the big 1962 floods I think.

Apologies for my lack of lateral thinking - Keen as I am on HAP units I don't see the link to Yeovil Junction !

Click on it and you'll see - it's a feature of the board software to show links with an original unrelated title.

 

[yorksrob]

The Tiverton loop was actually "Red", for the larger GWR locos, at limited speed, because of a history of flooding on the main line from the Rivers Culm and the upper Exe - though it could do nothing for Cowley Bridge. Last used as such in the big 1962 floods I think.


Click on it and you'll see - it's a feature of the board software to show links with an original unrelated title.

Ah cheers - I wouldn't fancy walking it I must admit !

 

[delt1c]

It has often been said that the closure of so many branch lines ( whilst uneconomical on their own) strangled many main lines as the feeder traffic was lost along with the revenue it created. ~It has been said that in some cases the branches were closed 1st in order to make the some mainlines unprofitable and led to their closure later.

 

[simonw]

Grand Central line must be in with a shout.

not really it was a duplicate route to places better served by other lines

I would argue that Okehampton and Tavistock are significant centres in Devon. In terms of being slower and longer, it was slightly, but not significantly.

Not really. And Okehampton survived into the 1970s

 

[Bald Rick]

Not really. And Okehampton survived into the 1970s

And will be back this year.

Which rather highlights the point. If Okehampton is connected to the network, and later Tavistock*, then what strategic purpose does the bit inbetween serve?

* I doubt it will, but you never know. I suspect opening to Okehampton will be the final nail in the coffin for Tavistock.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Much though the enthusiast sector misses the decimation of all 4 routes to Brecon - they were incredibly lightly patronised and apart from the much debated Ammonia tanks to Dowlais - there was no through freight of any consequence , - unlike the North and West route which has always seen long distance flows of all kinds (even in the dark days of the 1970's) - these deeply rural lines had frankly more railway men on duty than passengers.

On which subject, the novel Border Country by Raymond Williams is one of the finest books I've read in recent years. It's set in the southern Welsh Borders - probably a fictionalised version of Pandy near Abergavenny, where Williams was born. The rural railway in the 1930s and the coming of the motor car are themes throughout the book.

Border Country (novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Border Country - Literary Atlas: Plotting English-Language Novels in Wales

www.literaryatlas.wales

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On which subject, the novel Border Country by Raymond Williams is one of the finest books I've read in recent years. It's set in the southern Welsh Borders - probably a fictionalised version of Pandy near Abergavenny, where Williams was born. The rural railway in the 1930s and the coming of the motor car are themes throughout the book.

Border Country (novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Border Country - Literary Atlas: Plotting English-Language Novels in Wales

www.literaryatlas.wales

Splendid book - you can tell the author was pretty au-fait with signalling ! (some of my training was in those boxes on that line in the 1970's - a good experience and busy enough even in 1979)

 

[Gloster]

Splendid book - you can tell the author was pretty au-fait with signalling ! (some of my training was in those boxes on that line in the 1970's - a good experience and busy enough even in 1979)

Hardly surprising as Williams’s father was a signalman.