Routeing guide easements

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Mojo, 2 Sep 2007.

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  1. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    When travelling from Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads I often buy a ticket to/from Stapleton Road as it is cheaper. I can go via Temple Meads because an easement in the routeing guide allows that journeys to or from Stapleton Road or Lawrence Hill can double back via Temple Meads.

    There is currently a very small number of trains per day which stop at Stapleton Road which also call at Filton Abbey Wood, which is presumably the reason for the easement. From December there will be an hourly service calling at Stapleton Road when going to Filton Abbey Wood.

    Assuming I travel on one of these services which stops at Stapleton Road, am I still allowed to double back through Temple Meads?
     
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  3. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    Providing the train stops at the station on the route, you can buy virtually anything...

    Example :
    Here is a journey I did years ago, so that I could visit Kilmarnock, as I had never been there before
    Barrhead - Kilmarnock CDR
    Barrhead - Glasgow CDR
    I then travelled on the first train from Barrhead to Kilmarnock
    Sadly, the next Kilmarnock - Glasgow didn't stop at Barrhead, but I asked the "guard" if I could travel, showing him both tickets (Kilmarnock - Barrhead and Barrhead - Glasgow), as the train passed through the station
    He replied "not supposed to, but it will save you waiting an hour"

    Just a few months ago, I had a reservation on a Milton Keynes - Crewe service
    However, I arrived two hours early at Milton Keynes and thought it would be a good idea to get to Crewe if I could
    The station staff couldn't help and advised me to wait on the platform and ask the Train Manager when it arrived
    Eventually he appeared at the opposite end of the train!
    I showed him my ticket and said "yes, but there are no seats"
    He closed the doors and then said "First Class is declassified, go in there"

    If you don't ask, you don't get
     
  4. dan_atki

    dan_atki Established Member

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    The easement which you refer to (30007) which was in the old easements section as: "Journeys to and from Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill may doubleback via Bristol Temple Meads" is no longer mentioned in the easements section on the ATOC site so I'm presuming this loophole has been/will be closed up, probably as you say because of the introduction of the new service. Still, that doesn't explain why it's disappeared three months early...


    EDIT: If you put in FIT - SRD in the National Rail journey planner it still comes up change at BRI so the easement must still exist at the moment (as they are built into the system). Although, it would seem that there is only an hourly service between FIT and BRI anyway all trains will stop at SRD so I'm pretty sure this easement will no longer work from 9th December.
     
  5. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Many thanks, I had a feeling they might remove it when the hourly stopper started, although there are currently, and will continue to be 4tph between FIT and BRI.
     
  6. dan_atki

    dan_atki Established Member

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    Oh right, it is a feature of the journey planner to give you the journeys with the shortest waiting time - I'm presuming the BRI - SRD is an hourly service at the moment? That's why I (rather stupidly) assumed there was 1 tph :oops:

    If FGW introduce the stopper in both directions then it would mean 2 tph between BRI and SRD, but still because the FIT - SRD would be every hour (which is the normal service pattern for many routes) rather than a few trains a day I doubt the easement will continue even if you could have a slightly faster journey going via BRI.
     
  7. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    It's currently hourly during the day, sometimes can be more frequent when the trains to Filton and beyond stop there, sometimes less frequent when branch trains go all the way to Severn Beach.

    From December, as well as the stopping service, there will also be an other additional train between BRI and Avonmouth, meaning 3tph between BRI and SRD.

    Will be quite interesting seeing SRD used as an interchange point, though there are minimal numbers doing an Avonmouth group - Filton journey ATM.
     
  8. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    A quick question that is of a similar topic.

    For journeys from Glasgow to, say, Leuchars, are passenegrs allowed to change trains at Edinburgh Waverley or must they change at Haymarket? I can't find an easement to cover this, and I'm hoping I don't have to change at Haymarket.
     
  9. dan_atki

    dan_atki Established Member

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    According to the routeing guide the valid permitted routes are via Edinburgh and Perth. If you have any trouble at Edinburgh kindly refer them to the routeing guide, map FD for confirmation it's a valid route, copy here: http://atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/maps/map_fd.htm
    Glasgow is itself a routeing point and Leuchars can come under Dundee or Ladybank.

    Regarding Routeing Guide easements, these normally only exist for doubling-back where trains' calling patterns may significantly delay a passenger - a good example of this is Hampden Park. For people unaware a train must pass through Hampden Park to get to Eastbourne and pass through it again to go towards Lewes or Hastings. There is an easement to permit doubling-back between Hampden Park and Eastbourne because trains have a calling pattern either:

    Polegate, Hampden Park, Eastbourne, Bexhill and vice versa;
    Polegate, Eastbourne, Hampden Park, Pevensey & Westham and vice versa;
    Polegate, Hampden Park, Eastbourne, Hampden Park and vice versa.

    Here the easement exists so that a passenger doesn't have to wait for a train which call at Hampden Park before Eastbourne in the direction they are travelling.
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    No easement is necessary, because they are both members of the Edinburgh Group of stations. You can change at Waverley.

    EDINBURGH GROUP



    Dalmeny
    Edinburgh
    Haymarket
    South Gyle
     
  11. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Great, ta. I thought with the doubling back that they would have forbidden such a route.

    This routeing guide really is very complicated at first, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.
     
  12. djw1981

    djw1981 Established Member

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    Not all GNER/Virgin to Aberdeen/Dundee stop at Haymarket, and thus you have to be able to change anywhere in Edinburgh group..
     
  13. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Doubling back is prohibited except in certain circumstances - and that is within Group stations (but NOT if your ticket is to a station in the group) and where easements exist. Plus the 'direct train' rule trumps all other rules if applicable.

    So a South Milford-Micklefield ticket is not valid beyond Micklefield, but a South Milford-Church Fenton ticket is valid for doubling-back between Micklefield and Leeds :)

    Needless to say, I never buy a York-Leeds ticket, I'll buy to South Milford instead ;)
     
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