Rugeley TV to Birmingham NS Trains from 11th of December!

[Simon Poole]

I was checking the National Rail website and noticed the Plymouth to London Waterloo First Great Western Diversions during December Reading Block, though to myself lets see the Local Trains on the Chase Line, Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham New Street, they up! but what i saw is shocking!

Rugeley TV to Birmingham New Street (weekdays from December 11th)

06:21, 06:39, 07:04, 07:39, 08:42, 09:06, 09:42, 10:06, 11:06, 12:06, 13:06, 14:06, 15:06, 16:06, 16:42, 17:13, 17:42, 18:12, 18:46, 19:10, 19:42, 20:35, 21:40, 22:33

Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley

05:56, 06:27, 07:39, 08:07, 08:39, 09:07, 09:39, 10:39, 11:39, 12:39, 13:39, 14:39, 15:39, 16:07, 16:39, 17:07, 17:42, 18:12, 18:39, 19:17, 20:17, 21:17, 22:17

what happens at Rugeley Trent Valley after December 11th taking an guess, the train arrives at XX:36 and stays at Rugeley Trent Valley for 30 Minutes! and departs at XX:06 between 10am and 4pm

Also the second train that departs Rugeley at xx:42 has withdrawn trains between Rugeley Trent Valley and Walsall and Departs Birmingham at XX:07 withdrawn Walsall to Rugeley Trent Valley between 10am and 4pm, they added an Birmingham New Street to Walsall Fast with only stopping at Tame Bridge Parkway which use to run to Rugeley Trent Valley!

looks like Walsall still get their trains but Rugeley lost one service during 10am till 4pm to an hourly service!

The Saturday services haven't changed, they remain the same!

my opionion, London Midland haven't thought this through, becuase the Rugeley to London Trains still leave at xx:32 which means during off peak you have to wait at Rugeley Trent Valley for an hour for the next London Train!

 

[lm321412]

Rubbish idea but it probably saves a unit at most so they can cut costs

Also, I presume the Birmingham - Walsall fasts will still be ran by Diesel trains so they can take up their Rugeley duties in the afternoons!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I though this had been known about for a while (definitely since the summer), and was due to Staffordshire Council (or an equivalent) ending their subsidy of the half-hourly service, not London Midland just cancelling it at their own accord...

 

[sprinterguy]

This has been known about for some time.

The service is being reduced to hourly off peak as from December Centro are reducing the amount of subsidy given to this service, which is a direct result of the cut Centro are receiving in funding from the Government. An attempt was made at inviting the other county councils (Cannock Chase District Council and Staffordshire County Council) through who's jurisdiction the line runs to provide some of the funding to operate these services, but they declined to provide the required amount. Centro and London Midland performed a cost benefit analysis on the service, and concluded that subsidising the second train was costing £7.18 per passenger.

The remaining Walsall-Birmingham fast service coud potentially use a 323, as LM usually have a couple spare off-peak, just have to wait and see.

 

[Simon Poole]

Rubbish idea but it probably saves a unit at most so they can cut costs

Also, I presume the Birmingham - Walsall fasts will still be ran by Diesel trains so they can take up their Rugeley duties in the afternoons!

i agree that the ideas stupid, they havent planned this good :cry:

 

[tbtc]

my opionion, London Midland haven't thought this through, becuase the Rugeley to London Trains still leave at xx:32 which means during off peak you have to wait at Rugeley Trent Valley for an hour for the next London Train!

How many people from Walsall to London go via New Street and how many via Rugeley though?

 

[Simon Poole]

How many people from Walsall to London go via New Street and how many via Rugeley though?

Welll it could be Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby or Northampton but the trains are London Bound, sometimes i might pop down to Tamworth during the afternoon from Rugeley Town to film trains

 

[lm321412]

How many people from Walsall to London go via New Street and how many via Rugeley though?

Many may prefer Birmingham, however you seem to be failing to consider Bloxwich, Bloxwich North, Landywood, Cannock, Hednesford and Rugeley Town of which i'm sure some of those stations go via Rugeley for London...

 

[jd]

Centro subsidised the 2tph service to Rugeley, despite the fact that only Bloxwich and Bloxwich North are within their jurisdiction.

When they got their budget cuts through, they decided that subisiding services for people whose councils don't pay money into Centro was something they could easily cut.

LM offered Staffordshire County Council the opportunity to subsidise it instead (something they should really have been doing from the start anyway), and they offered something silly like 10% of what Centro used to pay, so LM turned it down, and now operate 1tph commercially.

 

[tbtc]

Centro subsidised the 2tph service to Rugeley, despite the fact that only Bloxwich and Bloxwich North are within their jurisdiction.

When they got their budget cuts through, they decided that subisiding services for people whose councils don't pay money into Centro was something they could easily cut.

LM offered Staffordshire County Council the opportunity to subsidise it instead (something they should really have been doing from the start anyway), and they offered something silly like 10% of what Centro used to pay, so LM turned it down, and now operate 1tph commercially.

Can't blame LM or Centro in that case.

If the route isn't commercially viable with two trains per hour then better to use the stock on busier routes (especially if that means using EMUs on Walsall routes, freeing up 170s for elsewhere)

 

[thefab444]

i agree that the ideas stupid, they havent planned this good :cry:

If not enough people use the enhanced service, what are LM supposed to do? Lose money?

 

[Dave R]

Possibility of reinstating a service on the Walsall-Wolverhampton line?

Was the service stopped due to a poor passenger numbers, or stock? If the latter then we may see the service again because of the units released, a single 153 was operated before and one of these would be released? there's a 170+153 diagram isn't there?

 

[jd]

Possibility of reinstating a service on the Walsall-Wolverhampton line?

Was the service stopped due to a poor passenger numbers, or stock? If the latter then we may see the service again because of the units released, a single 153 was operated before and one of these would be released? there's a 170+153 diagram isn't there?

Poorly used, I believe. Wasn't worth the subsidy it required/the money was better spent elsewhere. There's a whole backdrop to the story though, allegations of poor publicity, terrible reliablity, bad connections to onward services at Wolves/Walsall, etc, causing the low usage figures, rather than an actual lack of demand for such a service.

Somebody commenting on the BBC discussion here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/c.../03/walsall_wolverhampton_train_feature.shtml suggested it should continue towards Cannock and Rugeley. Interesting idea, but given the 2tph service doesn't work without subsidy, it's mean either having a two-hourly service from Rugeley alternating between Bham and Wolves, or maybe even splitting the train at Walsall, which all sounds a bit convoluted for such a lightly used line. I can't imagine further reducing the service to Bham from Rugeley would be a good idea.

There's also an argument that various stations that used to be there between Walsall and Wolves should be re-instated, and that would make the service infintely more worthwhile. Basically, it could be useful if the money were spent on it, it seems. But nobody will put the cash in. Centro are obsessed with trams (but only ever managed to build one line), though it seems they've downgraded their aspirations to some sort of perverse tram-bus thing now. I guess maybe they'd like to convert this line into one of them, but can't because Network Rail want it as a diversionary route.

 

[sprinterguy]

Poorly used, I believe. Wasn't worth the subsidy it required/the money was better spent elsewhere. There's a whole backdrop to the story though, allegations of poor publicity, terrible reliablity, bad connections to onward services at Wolves/Walsall, etc, causing the low usage figures, rather than an actual lack of demand for such a service.

Somebody commenting on the BBC discussion here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/c.../03/walsall_wolverhampton_train_feature.shtml suggested it should continue towards Cannock and Rugeley. Interesting idea, but given the 2tph service doesn't work without subsidy, it's mean either having a two-hourly service from Rugeley alternating between Bham and Wolves, or maybe even splitting the train at Walsall, which all sounds a bit convoluted for such a lightly used line. I can't imagine further reducing the service to Bham from Rugeley would be a good idea.

Thought is currently being given to reopening a station at Aldridge (beyond Walsall on the currently freight only Sutton Coldfield/Castle Brom line). If this plan was implemented then the cut back Chase line train could run to there instead of terminating at Walsall. If there was proved to be any demand for a train service between Wolverhampton and Walsall, which I doubt anyway, there could also be an hourly Wolverhampton to Aldridge to give it a bit more purpose (Half hourly service between Aldridge and Walsall, with one direct train to Birmingham and the other providing connections to Brum as well as a direct service to Wolverhampton). If a station could be opened at Aldridge there would be a lot more opportunity to make something out of the service cuts.

 

[jd]

Thought is currently being given to reopening a station at Aldridge (beyond Walsall on the currently freight only Sutton Coldfield/Castle Brom line). If this plan was implemented then the cut back Chase line train could run to there instead of terminating at Walsall. If there was proved to be any demand for a train service between Wolverhampton and Walsall, which I doubt anyway, there could also be an hourly Wolverhampton to Aldridge to give it a bit more purpose (Half hourly service between Aldridge and Walsall, with one direct train to Birmingham and the other providing connections to Brum as well as a direct service to Wolverhampton). If a station could be opened at Aldridge there would be a lot more opportunity to make something out of the service cuts.

As I said above (edited after you read it by the looks of things, sorry!), it seems to come down to money - Centro either don't have the funds or want to spend them all on tram route proposals that they never build, and central government won't build anything outside the M25.

In the vein of re-opening old freight lines for passenger service, there could easily be a service from Wolverhampton to Walsall with a station at Willenhall, maybe Darlaston too, which could then carry on to Aldridge, and indeed past it to Streetly and Sutton Coldfield - that would save a number of journeys via New Street. Could even continue beyond Sutton Coldfield in fact. The Stourbridge-Dudley-Wolverhampton line could be re-opened too. There could be a whole through service: Stourbridge, Dudley, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Sutton Coldfield. I'm sure it would be used, if they built stations where there used to be stations (and maybe elsewhere too), it would mean areas where people have to rely on an often poor bus service having an option of a train instead.

 

[sprinterguy]

As I said above (edited after you read it by the looks of things, sorry!), it seems to come down to money - Centro either don't have the funds or want to spend them all on tram route proposals that they never build, and central government won't build anything outside the M25.

In the vein of re-opening old freight lines for passenger service, there could easily be a service from Wolverhampton to Walsall with a station at Willenhall, maybe Darlaston too, which could then carry on to Aldridge, and indeed past it to Streetly and Sutton Coldfield - that would save a number of journeys via New Street. Could even continue beyond Sutton Coldfield in fact. The Stourbridge-Dudley-Wolverhampton line could be re-opened too. There could be a whole through service: Stourbridge, Dudley, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Sutton Coldfield. I'm sure it would be used, if they built stations where there used to be stations (and maybe elsewhere too), it would mean areas where people have to rely on an often poor bus service having an option of a train instead.

I agree, it all comes down to money which isn't readily available in many cases. And Centro is very tram-centric at the moment and over the last decade. The tram-train proposal is in line with plans to reopen the Camp Hill line and provide a passenger service to Moseley and Kings Heath. Tbf though, the Aldridge station idea is a Centro proposal who's biggest hurdle seems to be reaching agreement with Network Rail over funding and locating the station. Extending to Aldridge would be a quick win out of the current disgruntled opinions over cutting Chase line proposals.

I also agree that there should be stops at Willenhall and Darlaston out of any Wolverhampton-Walsall service. Though perhaps introducing new services when the current train services are being cut is the wrong way to be moving: Better to dedicate what funding there is to maintaining the current service level.

Developments on the Walsall-Dudley-Stourbridge route will be a long way in the future unfortunately, and who knows what wil eventually become of it: It's been proposed to be used in part as (predictably) an extension of Midland Metro, the idea currently in vogue is that it be reinstated as a strategic freight corridor.

 

[jd]

I agree, it all comes down to money which isn't readily available in many cases. And Centro is very tram-centric at the moment and over the last decade. The tram-train proposal is in line with plans to reopen the Camp Hill line and provide a passenger service to Moseley and Kings Heath. Tbf though, the Aldridge station idea is a Centro proposal who's biggest hurdle seems to be reaching agreement with Network Rail over funding and locating the station. Extending to Aldridge would be a quick win out of the current disgruntled opinions over cutting Chase line proposals.

I also agree that there should be stops at Willenhall and Darlaston out of any Wolverhampton-Walsall service. Though perhaps introducing new services when the current train services are being cut is the wrong way to be moving: Better to dedicate what funding there is to maintaining the current service level.

Developments on the Walsall-Dudley-Stourbridge route will be a long way in the future unfortunately, and who knows what wil eventually become of it: It's been proposed to be used in part as (predictably) an extension of Midland Metro, the idea currently in vogue is that it be reinstated as a strategic freight corridor.

I totally forgot about the Camp Hill line too - Birmingham City Council once publicised the fact it would be open by 2017.... *rolls eyes*

In all fairness, I think there are probably loads of former lines all around the country that we'd like to see brought back into service, and which would be profitable. But it all comes down to the capital cost of re-opening them, which nobody is really able/willing to spend.

There was talk a while ago of extending some of the Longbridge-terminating Cross City trains to Bromsgove to provide 2tph Redditch, 2tph Bromsgrove, and 2tph terminating at Longbridge. Does anybody know if that's ever likely to materialise nowadays?

 

[Dave R]

Redditch is already 2tph, the proposal was for a loop at alvechurch so this could be increased to 3tph.

I think the Bromsgrove scheme has been scrapped however I'm not sure and have no sources to back that up.

There was an idea of extending the (now disused) MG rover factory spur to rubery, AFAIK it was only an idea.

And there's the camp hill line, I think the idea was for 2/3tph from Moor street to Kings Norton, I had a look at the track layout and my idea would be to terminate at the currently disused platform 3 at KNN (currently 1tph northbound XC Bristol-Man Pic) and a new set of points (to allow down camp hill line to get to platform 3)

a quick google search brings this document up http://www.wmra.gov.uk/documents/Item_9_-_Regional_Rail_00013[1].pdf it also has details of a few other proposals, it looks a few years old though.

 

[The Planner]

Redditch is still a goer though the loop will be nearer Reddtich, Bromsgrove is on hold due to lack of cash, Rubery will never happen. Camp Hills are unlikely without the Moor St chords, so Id forget them too...

 

[Dave R]

I was under the impression that the loop would be at Alvechurch station because it's roughly half way between Barnt Green (5 mins) and Redditch (7 mins), and surely makes more sense than stopping a train between two stations?

 

[jd]

And there's the camp hill line, I think the idea was for 2/3tph from Moor street to Kings Norton, I had a look at the track layout and my idea would be to terminate at the currently disused platform 3 at KNN (currently 1tph northbound XC Bristol-Man Pic) and a new set of points (to allow down camp hill line to get to platform 3)
.

Though I never really looked into it, I'd have assumed the Camp Hill trains would've been given platform 4, and the southbound Cross-City, along with the Hereford/Bristol/Cardiff trains being routed instead through platform 3, or even platform 2 for that matter. That would avoid the Camp Hill trains having to cross the path of the pretty-busy 'mainline'.

 

[dcmbarton]

Whilst it's always dissapointing to see train services cut, I have to be honest and say that last week I travelled on the 1206 from Rugeley TV to Tame Bridge Parkway. There were only three people on the train at Rugeley TV (including me) and between there and Walsall, only probably 10 people got on and off a four coach train. It wasn't until it reached Walsall that there was any serious numbers getting on and off.

 

[The Planner]

I was under the impression that the loop would be at Alvechurch station because it's roughly half way between Barnt Green (5 mins) and Redditch (7 mins), and surely makes more sense than stopping a train between two stations?

You wouldnt though, you keep them both moving. The loop placement would be based on a specific timetable and where the trains would cross.

 

[jd]

Whilst it's always dissapointing to see train services cut, I have to be honest and say that last week I travelled on the 1206 from Rugeley TV to Tame Bridge Parkway. There were only three people on the train at Rugeley TV (including me) and between there and Walsall, only probably 10 people got on and off a four coach train. It wasn't until it reached Walsall that there was any serious numbers getting on and off.

Well this is exactly it - the passenger levels don't justify a 2tph service, hence the need for the subisdy, and the withdrawal of the subsidy makes only 1tph worthwhile.

The other major problem is that all the stations north of Walsall are unstaffed, and often either guards don't bother going out, or there's a 170+153 running the service, and the guard is stuck in the rear unit and can't get to the front.

So there's low usage anyway, coupled with a failure for whatever reason to collect what little revenue there is to collect, it's hardly surprising it's being dropped to 1tph.

 

[sprinterguy]

Well this is exactly it - the passenger levels don't justify a 2tph service, hence the need for the subisdy, and the withdrawal of the subsidy makes only 1tph worthwhile.

The other major problem is that all the stations north of Walsall are unstaffed, and often either guards don't bother going out, or there's a 170+153 running the service, and the guard is stuck in the rear unit and can't get to the front.

So there's low usage anyway, coupled with a failure for whatever reason to collect what little revenue there is to collect, it's hardly surprising it's being dropped to 1tph.

In my experience time keeping on the route is dire as well, which can’t help to draw in passengers. I agree that usage of the service is low and it’s no surprise that it costs so much per passenger to subsidise the service, causing it’s’ withdrawal. I was on one of the 170+153 formations from Tame Bridge to New Street (Running 20 minutes late) last Thursday evening, and I had the entire 153 to myself. Ironically, this isn’t one of the trains that is being withdrawn! Although, halving the service to hourly on the Chase Line off peak will probably be further to the detriment of passenger numbers.

 

[brompton rail]

LM have also cut the half hourly Saturday only train to Stratford upon Avon. My understanding was that they were well used.

 

[jd]

LM have also cut the half hourly Saturday only train to Stratford upon Avon. My understanding was that they were well used.

AS I understood it, the plan was only ever to run that during the summer timetable - Stratford is very much a summer tourist destination and not a great deal of fun in the winter.

 

[Simon Poole]

AS I understood it, the plan was only ever to run that during the summer timetable - Stratford is very much a summer tourist destination and not a great deal of fun in the winter.

Could they be doing the same for Rugeley, wait until Summer 2011 and run then back to 30 Minutes and when the 2011 Winter Timetable is out have them back hourly?

 

[MCR247]

Could they be doing the same for Rugeley, wait until Summer 2011 and run then back to 30 Minutes and when the 2011 Winter Timetable is out have them back hourly?

As it has already been said, the subsidy for the 2nd train has stopped so no.

 

[jd]

Could they be doing the same for Rugeley, wait until Summer 2011 and run then back to 30 Minutes and when the 2011 Winter Timetable is out have them back hourly?

Firstly, the Stratford service wasn't subsidised, so it's not the withdrawal of a subsidy going on here. It was run commercially for the summer tourist trade, and LM only ever planned to run it during the summer.

Secondly, it's news to me if the likes of Cannock, Hednesford and Rugeley are notable tourist destinations...