Sale of two DB Class 67s to Colas

[alexl92]

Would it be worth VTEC taking some as in-house Thunderbird locos? Is it more cost-effective to buy your own and operate them or just lease?

 

[Clansman]

Would it be worth VTEC taking some as in-house Thunderbird locos? Is it more cost-effective to buy your own and operate them or just lease?

Probably the latter in the longer term, but that would also be dependent on the likes of maintenance etc.

 

[Roast Veg]

I can't see the 67s going back to sleeper duties in Scotland, the business case for the 73s was that their lower operating costs would pay them off quickly enough to be worth it - clearly the 67s operating at slower speeds up there was just not financially viable at all. Did they have any additional speed restrictions up there because of their high RA?

They would make a nice pair of thunderbirds for anyone who still runs HSTs, but anyone still running them seems to manage just fine without them, and most will only be running them for 3 years yet (Scotland the exception, but the above problems apply).

GWR could take them on as backup locos for the CNR, which wouldn't conflict with the leasing on the 57s, but might not be worth the money to buy them, sign them and keep them warm for extended periods of time.

The general consensus that Gbrf are the best bet seems most logical, with a view to more charter trains. Give them a nice dark and decorative paintjob to go with the older coaching stock (nicer than the royal train colours if possible), and then they can work all sorts of services as Gbrf's needs be. Charter operators probably wouldn't buy them outright, it's a lot more straightforward if they can promise some lease work to Gbrf under the proviso that they are acquired.

Colas is also a possibility, and I guess we shall see who can offer the higher bid. They could get scrapped if they decide not to bid or bid low, as unfortunate as that would be.

 

[Observer]

GBRf certainly must be looking at this golden opportunity for putting 67's back on the Caledonian Sleeper whilst the 73's continue to have problems.

We'll have to see who buys them in the end, but I can't see these being the only two that DBC sell on...more will come later if they can't hold on to them.

 

[Topgun333]

Interesting theory you have.....
http://s598.photobucket.com/user/bnm/media/Mobile Uploads/FB_IMG_1464553268844_zpsgyj9htee.jpg.html

HSTs have been known to rescue 57s from time to time

 

[CosherB]

I don't get why many seems to think, in the event GBRf get their hands on some 67s, that they'll be straight onto the CS. I just don't see it - the 73s are perfectly capable at doing what they've been designed to do, once the early niggling issues have been sorted. Some on here seem to have a short term knee-jerk reaction to almost anything!

Similarly, I don't see 67s on the Royal Scotsman, displacing the 66s. Does the RS need the higher top speed a 67 could offer? It certainly doesn't need loco ETS capability.

 

[Mordac]

Utter, utter nonsense. There is no law to say disposals have to be on open tender, or what price you have to accept.

EWS signed a code of conduct on disposals back in the day when acquiring locos was much more difficult than now and they had an effective monopoly on 2nd hand locos. I doubt it is legally enforceable, and actually is pretty pointless now - although DB Cargo still seem to be abiding by it, perhaps because they believe it gives them the best price.

The reason for that was to get the CMA off their back though. They could have been done for uncompetitive behaviour.
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EWS got a lot of stick for scrapping serviceable locos back in the early 2000s. I can't say Im that surprised this has occurred, the value will be higher as they are fairly modern so it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Thanks,
Ross

I don't think it will pan, these are diesel locos after all!

I'll get me coat.

 

[43096]

The reason for that was to get the CMA off their back though. They could have been done for uncompetitive behaviour.

Indeed. But that is somewhat different to "being against the law" for the reasons cited originally.

And it raises the old question: why is there only one Competition and Markets Authority?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

HSTs have been known to rescue 57s from time to time

When a HST failed on an SW bound XC service saltley sent a then brand new 58 to rescue it. It failed while thunderbirding and ended up being pushed into Exeter StD by the HST which had revived itself!
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I can't see DRS paying much attention to be honest, given that the 67s don't really do anything the 68s don't do, with the exception of 125mph capability, which DRS don't need.

One of the things 67's cant do very well is 125mph! XD

They are good at flying tho, especially over coal hoppers....

 

[dubscottie]

Utter, utter nonsense. There is no law to say disposals have to be on open tender, or what price you have to accept.

EWS signed a code of conduct on disposals back in the day when acquiring locos was much more difficult than now and they had an effective monopoly on 2nd hand locos. I doubt it is legally enforceable, and actually is pretty pointless now - although DB Cargo still seem to be abiding by it, perhaps because they believe it gives them the best price.

If its not against the law why did they get fined for the practice?

 

[Andrew1395]

How much is the price for one of these loco's likely to be?

 

[Mordac]

How much is the price for one of these loco's likely to be?

Forum kickstarter project?

 

[j.crocker355]

First into preservation?? Lol

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[ash39]

If its not against the law why did they get fined for the practice?

Not sure about the legal situation, but selling locos they leased/bought themselves from new is probably less of a sensitive issue than selling locos they inherited from BR.

 

[Great_Western]

Surely there is scope for a few extra ATW loco hauled diagrams considering I'm pretty sure DB also have a few surplus MK3's and DVT's lying around. Perhaps have them running Caerphilly - Barry on the peaks, getting rid of loco hauled on the Rhymney line was criminal in the first place.

 

[headshot119]

Surely there is scope for a few extra ATW loco hauled diagrams considering I'm pretty sure DB also have a few surplus MK3's and DVT's lying around. Perhaps have them running Caerphilly - Barry on the peaks, getting rid of loco hauled on the Rhymney line was criminal in the first place.

Yes let's crucify the Valley Lines timetable even more by introducing slam door stock on a route with stations fairly frequently.

Fantasy aside - It would be more logical to deploy them on Holyhead - Cardiffs, and release stock for the Valleys that way.

 

[Great_Western]

Yes let's crucify the Valley Lines timetable even more by introducing slam door stock on a route with stations fairly frequently.

Fantasy aside - It would be more logical to deploy them on Holyhead - Cardiffs, and release stock for the Valleys that way.

Ultimatley though ATW is not in a position to refuse any extra capacity. However as you say, from a timetabling point of view using LHCS to release a few 150's would be prefferable.

 

[59CosG95]

Ultimatley though ATW is not in a position to refuse any extra capacity. However as you say, from a timetabling point of view using LHCS to release a few 150's would be prefferable.

I assume via indirect cascade. Get some of the 67s to displace some 175s to the Heart of Wales line, in turn freeing up 150s and their ilk for the Valleys.

 

[ash39]

Not that it's likely to happen (where's the stock coming frm, for starters?), but if it were, surely the most logical place would be on the North Wales coast where the drivers/crews are already trained.

 

[CosherB]

Rumour alert ..... reported elsewhere on the interweb that the two 67s in question may be getting a coat of drab maroon paint ......

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What's the fuel consumption like for a 67 compared with a 68?

 

[Mordac]

Rumour alert ..... reported elsewhere on the interweb that the two 67s in question may be getting a coat of drab maroon paint ......

They were bought by Lothian Buses?

 

[The 4th Rail]

They were bought by Lothian Buses?

Actually the trams, to haul them up to Leith and save on electrification costs when the extensions built.

 

[59CosG95]

Actually the trams, to haul them up to Leith and save on electrification costs when the extensions built.

It'll be like Weymouth Quay all over again!

 

[ac6000cw]

What's the fuel consumption like for a 67 compared with a 68?

The relatively high fuel consumption of the 67s was one of the reasons Chiltern gave at the time for switching to the 68s. I suspect slow acceleration due to 125 mph gearing and DC drive was another reason for dropping them - and of course the 68s are more powerful. In general the fuel economy of the EMD two-stroke diesel engine is not quite as good as an equivalent four-stroke diesel, but when properly maintained they have a reputation for pretty bullet-proof reliability and longevity - it's what's kept them in the market for the last 75+ years.

 

[Iskra]

No-one has mentioned this one yet...

Wouldn't Network Rail be a good candidate? They hire them all the time, and are used to maintaining small oddball fleets and they must be more reliable and/or cheaper to maintain and source spare parts for than some of the older types in NR's collection.

 

[snakeeyes]

Do DB need the 67's at all, could they get away with selling all of them?

 

[ash39]

They need 5 at any time for the VTEC thunderbird contract and 2/3 for the ATW turns. So they could sell around two thirds of the fleet and still fulfil their current contracts.

Starting to wonder if some of them will end up like the 90's and 92's at Crewe and won't turn a wheel in service again. They're obsolete technology half way through their intended lifespan so unless they can find buyers or uses for them, I can't see a future for them.

 

[87019Chris]

Starting to wonder if some of them will end up like the 90's and 92's at Crewe and won't turn a wheel in service again. They're obsolete technology half way through their intended lifespan so unless they can find buyers or uses for them, I can't see a future for them.

The sad story is that if DBC sell them they risk someone else making a success out of them. And thus DBC loosing out and shooting themselves in the foot. If the rot and grow plants with them the maintenance goes down on the rest of the fleet as they can cannibalise what they have. DBC would edge there bets on scrap metal prices rising. So only if someone will pay over the odds for them will they leave DBC's hands. Likelihood is they are heading for Crewe IEMD to sit with the 90's and 92's. Think of the work FL would have been able to do if they had more 90's? think of the work EWS/DBS/DBC would have had competition for? If the 90's weren't scrap...

 

[CosherB]

DBC need to find cash, so having an asset rotting away at Toton like the 67s won't wash in the current climate. I'm sure any that are genuinely offered for sale will find homes quite quickly.