Islineclear3_1
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Well it's clear that the lady in question hasn't come back here
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(Satire) "Stakes rising for woman with table seat on train"
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Well it's clear that the lady in question hasn't come back here
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Robertj21a
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Are we reading the same thread ? - there's no reason at all why men shouldn't query some of the points raised by the lady. It's not being 'whiny' or 'Sexist' to seek clarification and/or try to explain an alternative point of view. It may well be that we have misunderstood something very specific that concerns her, or she has misconstrued actions by men (in general). All I, and some others, have sought is some clarification. I have no doubt that she is correct - at times - probably peak periods - around London (?) but if she's unwilling to respond then there's little we can do but guess.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
And if that person has reserved the seat next to you, are you suggesting that they shouldn't sit there?
I would suggest in that case it is you who would move. You have no rights to stipulate anything.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
How are you going to do that on a 2 car unit on the Cambrian, or a single car unit of the Heart of Wales?
Yes, ‘just following’ as in walking down the train behind her. You are allowed to walk behind people you know! FFS
There was no mention in the post of any previous contact which is why I was asking the question for clarification.
Had he already spoke to her?
Had he sat next her and when she moved, he also moved and followed? What was his behaviour to cause her that concern?
Maybe he was just an innocent party walking down the train looking for a spare seat next to a man!
I do hope you don’t work in the justice system, you can’t just believe everything people tell you without seeking clarification, facts and further evidence before jumping to a conclusion.
theblackwatch
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Where has the previous poster stated anything like that?
I must admit there have been occasions where I have joined a train and foud the one person in that carriage is sat in the seat next to the one I have reserved. On such occasions I sit elsewhere. However, not everyone would do like me, and there do seem to be people, both male and female, who want to sit in their reserved seat for whatever reason - which is, of course - their right, even if I find it a bit odd.
Well said and totally correct. Some of the replies seem veiled misogynistic in appearance and groups of males seemingly interrogating one woman doesn`t sit comfortable in my mind. Why do some men have a problem with this. Unless it`s my wife I`d rather stand anyway even if there are a few seats spare. Seats are very close and the thought of having to rub against someone especially a woman is not an option to me and not just because the law is "geared" in favour of women in certain persons eyes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
For those of us who know that staff don't actually care if you sit anywhere as long as it isn't someone else's reserved seat that's fine. But it's quite reasonable that occasional users might think sitting in your reserved seat is mandatory, particularly as quite a number of TOCs put out publicity saying that it is.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
He has suggested that he would be uncomfortable if someone sat next to him, but if that person has reserved that seat then they are quite entitled to use it. Why should it be the reservee that moves? There may be good reasons for them wanting that seat. If you are so uncomfortable of someone taking THEIR seat then it is you that should move and not expect them to do so.
The obvious fact that is coming out in this tread is that some people have very different recognition of their "personal space" and how big it is. Some here seem to need a large "space" around them whereas others don't seem to be bothered. (I'm the latter). If the former then perhaps they need to ask themselves whether crowded public transport is for them or that they have to realise that there will be occasions where they have to overcome their "fear" and find a way to cope.
Esker-pades
Established Member
At no point did I say that.
At what point did I say I wouldn't move if I felt uncomfortable?
At no point did I say that either.
You've read way too much into what I said. I feel uncomfortable when someone sits next to me, especially when it is on a train with lots of free seats. That statement does not do any of the following:
1: Prevent people from sitting next to me
2: Prevent me from moving
3: Prevent them from choosing to sit somewhere else because there are other seats free (as has happened on many a long distance journey)
4: Cause fire to fall from the sky
5: Prevent tigers from eating people
6: Cause you to loose your rights under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
The state of this thread...
Llanigraham
On Moderation
See my reply at 216.
Yes, ‘just following’ as in walking down the train behind her. You are allowed to walk behind people you know! FFS
There was no mention in the post of any previous contact which is why I was asking the question for clarification.
Had he already spoke to her?
Had he sat next her and when she moved, he also moved and followed? What was his behaviour to cause her that concern?
Maybe he was just an innocent party walking down the train looking for a spare seat next to a man!
I do hope you don’t work in the justice system, you can’t just believe everything people tell you without seeking clarification, facts and further evidence before jumping to a conclusion.
Agreed. I know when I take the district line from wimbledon (which uses walk through s7 stock for anyone who isn't aware) people enter by the first door at the back of the train and walk through. Many times I've been walking to the front of the train behind a woman, often with somebody else behind me. I'd hate to make them feel uncomfortable, we are all simply just walking to the emptier front of the train.
I'm not sure if it was her but somebody mentioned getting thameslink from Brighton to Cambridge or something like that which of course are terminus for Thameslink so what if it was someone behind her walking through the train after getting on from the nearest door to the platform entrance. It might even be getting on mid journey and walking through behind her.
The only time you can truly say someone is following you on a train is if you've moved away from them (i.e. you were sitting next to them and got up, or even you went to the toilet and they were still there when you came out) and they continue to walk by you. Or if the whole carriage is empty and they still walk behind you and sit next to you or in the bay opositeo you/behind you etc. In that instance that must be a horrible feeling and I'm truly sorry for anyone that has gone through that but it could be the other example, we simply don't know.
bramling
Veteran Member
To me the two things which stick out from the above are:
1) most of the discussion has centred around when things *aren’t* crowded
and
2) it’s not about people having others *around them*, but whether these others negatively affect comfort for both parties by unreasonably reducing the amount of space available.
In the example of the reservee, it’s perhaps more the fault of the person who has consciously chosen to sit next to a seat which has a reservation - but naturally it depends on other factors like how many other unreserved seats are available, and does that reserved seat have a particular feature desired or required.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
This forum is generally populated by those who generally "know" about the railway, so we realise that even with a reserved seat we don't have to use it, BUT a lot of the general public do not know that (#), so think they have to sit there. Ergo, we have a problem, as illustrated by someone who feels uncomfortable if that passenger sits next to them, in their reserved seat. In that case it isn't the reservee's fault as they think they are "doing the right thing", so the only answer if for those that feel uncomfortable is to move. That is what I have suggested and not accused anyone of anything.
(#)
The person I travelled up from London with yesterday always tries to reserve a seat and when we first travelled together he had exactly this idea, and was concerned that we wouldn't be able to sit together to discuss the meeting we had been to. I pointed out his error and now he doesn't worry about it.
(#)
The person I travelled up from London with yesterday always tries to reserve a seat and when we first travelled together he had exactly this idea, and was concerned that we wouldn't be able to sit together to discuss the meeting we had been to. I pointed out his error and now he doesn't worry about it.
JohnB57
Member
Or if you’ve been asked to move to your reserved seat, as I have a couple of times.
If the only forward-facing nearside window seat available on a train to London happens to be opposite you then that is where I will sit. Because it's the seat that meets my requirements. If you think that makes me a weirdo then so be it.
I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences with men but that's a different issue.
Just remembered the time I was on one of the refurbished Great Northern 365s where they had removed the middle table in the carriage and set all the airline style seats face the same way .
I was sat by the window in one of the two groups of four seats that remained, with the other three seats empty, as was most of the rest of the carriage.
A woman gets on and sits next to me despite there being many other pairs of twin seats being completely empty(!)
Apparently she can't travel backwards and all the empty airline seats are facing the wrong way...
I was sat by the window in one of the two groups of four seats that remained, with the other three seats empty, as was most of the rest of the carriage.
A woman gets on and sits next to me despite there being many other pairs of twin seats being completely empty(!)
Apparently she can't travel backwards and all the empty airline seats are facing the wrong way...
Esker-pades
Established Member
At what point did I say that?
This is fantastic. I have not said anything of the sort and yet you appear to be getting quite worked up (capital letters) at the prospect of me denying a fictional person their reserved seats. I never stated I expected them to move and have moved seats even when I am the one with the reservation .
"I get uncomfortable when a person sits next to me on an uncrowded train."
"Well stop denying people with reservations their seats."
That is a non-sequitur.
I'm sure I can just overcome my mental disability if I just think hard enough.
The state of this thread...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It is possible to develop coping mechanisms, yes. For instance, people with mild autism can learn social responses, often very successfully.
Esker-pades
Established Member
I'm aware. I have coping mechanisms for many things. But, learning to cope is not the same as overcoming the fear.
Doctor Fegg
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This thread would suggest otherwise.
Robertj21a
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There's only one realistic solution given all the apparent problems everyone has.......
Learn to drive - buy a car - abandon public transport
Learn to drive - buy a car - abandon public transport
But then you don't get the chance to have interesting chats to random strangers you happen to sit next to ...
Oh ...
trainophile
Established Member
I find it quite amusing that for every 100 passengers on a random train, about 50 of them will spend their entire journey either fearing that someone may sit next to or opposite them, or cringing because someone has. (The other 50 are already travelling with a companion, or in a 1st Class single seat.)
Is this stress factor a peculiarly British thing? Along the lines of never catching a stranger's eye in case they heaven forbid start a conversation, or just smile at you.
Is this stress factor a peculiarly British thing? Along the lines of never catching a stranger's eye in case they heaven forbid start a conversation, or just smile at you.
bramling
Veteran Member
Which is what most of the population does anyway! I wonder why?!...
Esker-pades
Established Member
How does it do that?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Well, this morning a woman sat next to me despite there being lots of other options.
Robertj21a
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Your wife, work mate, floosy from down the road - or a real 'normal' woman ?
No idea who she was!
Mainliner
Member
Indeed, which is why earlier in the thread I invited GoatSarah to qualify her comments where the train in question has seat reservations (in my case, for the vast majority of seats). She didn’t reply, although she did reply to other posts after mine.
So I’m afraid that without such qualifications, some of her comments are so sweeping as not to be taken seriously.
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