(Satire) "Stakes rising for woman with table seat on train"

[Llanigraham]

I agree with her. If I get on a train that was half empty and I sat next to a lone female, I'd feel like I was being weird... which is why I won't do it.

And if your reserved seat is next to that person are you not going to use it?

 

[sefton]

If you're a guy, don't sit next to a strange woman. Even if your intentions are harmless, we don't have magic knowledge that you aren't a creep and you are causing needless stress. Sit next to another bloke.

I would suggest the simple solution if you are so concerned about a man sitting next to you is to sit next to another woman.

 

[bramling]

You're right. But generally if you ask, the person will be more likely to say yes (and have time to move their stuff from the other seat)... if you just sit on their bag (I once had someone deliberately sit on top of my laptop bag as if they were making a point, on an almost empty train) then you're guaranteeing a frosty atmosphere for the rest of the journey.

It's annoying when people are selfish about seats, but it really isn't worth all this fuss. I'm out.

As you rightly say it isn’t worth the fuss just to prove a point. Some of the things posted on this forum where people claim to have moved people’s bags and the like are bordering on the irresponsible. Pick on the wrong person, for example someone with mental health issues or a personality disorder, and the awakening might be rather rude. It really isn’t worth getting a smack in the face or worse just to prove a point about seats or byelaws.

 

[bramling]

I would suggest the simple solution if you are so concerned about a man sitting next to you is to sit next to another woman.

One wonders, out of curiosity, if women who feel intimidated when a man sits next to them would feel the same if the man sitting next to them was obviously gay?

 

[Robertj21a]

One wonders, out of curiosity, if women who feel intimidated when a man sits next to them would feel the same if the man sitting next to them was obviously gay?

I hope the next query isn't going to be would a man feel threatened if a gay man sat next to him......

 

[Esker-pades]

One wonders, out of curiosity, if women who feel intimidated when a man sits next to them would feel the same if the man sitting next to them was obviously gay?

How can a man (or woman for that matter) be obviously gay?

 

[bramling]

How can a man (or woman for that matter) be obviously gay?

Talking on the phone and referring to “my husband”?

To avoid any doubts, my original point was in no way meant to be flippant, but a serious question to those who appear to view all men as potential gropers.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

How can a man (or woman for that matter) be obviously gay?

Eating ice cream and boasting about driving a Jeep Wrangler?

 

[Esker-pades]

Talking on their phone and referring to “my husband”?

Bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality....

That's quite a big if. The person has to be in a gay relationship, they have to be on the phone to their partner, they have to mention that. That's 3 things. Further, the original situation described (plenty of other seats available), I would still find a person sitting next to me creepy.

 

[bramling]

Bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality....

That's quite a big if. The person has to be in a gay relationship, they have to be on the phone to their partner, they have to mention that. That's 3 things. Further, the original situation described (plenty of other seats available), I would still find a person sitting next to me creepy.

Okay, point taken about bisexuality and similar.

Next question. Do women feel as intimidated if the man sitting next to them shows signs of being married with children?

 

[Esker-pades]

Okay, point taken about bisexuality and similar.

Next question. Do women feel as intimidated if the man sitting next to them shows signs of being married with children?

Being openly male, I can't answer that. All I will say is that if anyone sits next to me when there are plenty of other seats available, I will be uncomfortable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bisexuality, asexuality, pansexuality....

That's quite a big if. The person has to be in a gay relationship, they have to be on the phone to their partner, they have to mention that. That's 3 things. Further, the original situation described (plenty of other seats available), I would still find a person sitting next to me creepy.

I thought we'd moved on from that and were discussing a scenario in which the train had someone in each pair of seats so sitting next to someone could not be avoided?

 

[bramling]

Being openly male, I can't answer that. All I will say is that if anyone sits next to me when there are plenty of other seats available, I will be uncomfortable.

From a male’s perspective, I wouldn’t necessarily think the person’s a creep - just that they’ve got poor awareness of their surroundings. I can sympathise with the female perspective expressed in other posts on this thread, however FWIW I’m more pursuaded by the argument that people should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. However I’m more thinking of pairs of seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From a male’s perspective, I wouldn’t necessarily think the person’s a creep - just that they’ve got poor awareness of their surroundings. I can sympathise with the female perspective expressed in other posts on this thread, however FWIW I’m more pursuaded by the argument that people should be treated as innocent until proven guilty.

I think I sympathise with both points and I do to some extent take that view into account when choosing a seat, though it isn't the only nor overriding factor - I will for instance choose a priority or table seat over a regular airline seat on a Class 350 regardless of who is sitting in the other one, and if I know it's a typically busy train also regardless of whether there are lots of pairs of regular airline seats spare or not (the reason being that I take up two of them due to the tight spacing, and those two will later be required for two other people). Or, for another example, I'll take a table seat on a Pendolino if I need the power socket, and "blank wall" seats are out of the question unless there is no other available seat in the coach.

I just find the female perspective expressed was expressed in an unnecessarily quite offensive way with some quite nasty undertones and implications.

 

[bramling]

I think I sympathise with both points and I do to some extent take that view into account when choosing a seat, though it isn't the only nor overriding factor - I will for instance choose a priority or table seat over a regular airline seat on a Class 350 regardless of who is sitting in the other one, and if I know it's a typically busy train also regardless of whether there are lots of pairs of regular airline seats spare or not (the reason being that I take up two of them due to the tight spacing, and those two will later be required for two other people). Or, for another example, I'll take a table seat on a Pendolino if I need the power socket, and "blank wall" seats are out of the question unless there is no other available seat in the coach.

I just find the female perspective expressed was expressed in an unnecessarily quite offensive way with some quite nasty undertones and implications.

I think that’s all fair and reasonable, and I agree with all of the above.

I have to say I’m genuinely surprised at some of the views expressed on this thread. A fascinating psychological study. Some bits of the thread come across to me as a little depressing though.

 

[Bantamzen]

If you're a man, even one who doesn't at all fit in with the "caveman" caricature often berated by the left and lauded by the right, then you're automatically in an empowered position when it comes to this situation. Although male-on-male violence is an issue that causes problems, it's generally easy to avoid. Most of us don't want to make others feel uncomfortable, and if you're a man that might sometimes involve standing on a train for a bit. If I get on a bus or train and the only free seats are next to women, then I'll stand. Why? Because although I know I'm not going to get all handsy, they don't. If I'm going a long way, a seat will free up at some point anyway. As males, we can generally walk home unmolested after dark, and we can generally sit on a train and not be trapped in by some creep. Occasionally having to stand on a train is a small price to pay.

As someone who makes every effort not to put women at any discomfort, from making sure I don't randomly sit next to one when there are plenty of other seats elsewhere, to crossing roads and even taking different walking routes when I find myself walking behind a lady in a quiet area, I do disagree with one point you've made there. I use quite a lot of peak time trains & buses, often pretty full but with opportunities to sit on occasions. I wouldn't in these cases avoid sitting next to a woman if those were the only free seats, because the chances are if I do not sit another man will, and to be blunt if every man did that there would serious issues boarding & alighting trains! However I do put my work rucksack on my knee, and make a very conscious effort to keep both hands around it & visible, and of course make every effort to minimise any contact so as to minimise any potential discomfort. But the bottom line is that on busy services, it is difficult to make such considerations & all concerned, men & women, need to try to as best respect each other as best as possible.

 

[mafeu]

If you're a guy, don't sit next to a strange woman. Even if your intentions are harmless, we don't have magic knowledge that you aren't a creep and you are causing needless stress. Sit next to another bloke.

I prefer to sit by myself where possible. However, if I get on a busy train and want to sit, then I’ll sit it in the first available seat.

My first thought if I sat next to you specifically wouldn’t be that you are a weirdo, a woman or anything else.

If you choose to think I’m a weirdo, a perv or whatever other thoughts go through your head for sitting next to you, then that’s your choice. I feel sorry for you and wish you all the best as you go and find an alternative seat. Don’t waste your breath moaning under your breath though as you move as it won’t be acknowledged and by that point I’ll probably be wondering who this strange person with a superiority complex is.

 

[trainophile]

Perhaps (reservable) trains should be redesigned so that parts of them are just single seats. They could get three in a row if at one end of the train so that a trolley didn’t have to pass through. If these were priced 50% higher than standard, those who are really paranoid about being sat next to would have an acceptable option.

It wouldn’t affect couples, families, “two togethers”, or those who aren’t bothered, so not very many would be required.

 

[DanTrain]

Perhaps (reservable) trains should be redesigned so that parts of them are just single seats. They could get three in a row if at one end of the train so that a trolley didn’t have to pass through. If these were priced 50% higher than standard, those who are really paranoid about being sat next to would have an acceptable option.

It wouldn’t affect couples, families, “two togethers”, or those who aren’t bothered, so not very many would be required.

Isn’t that known as First Class?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn’t that known as First Class?

That's 2+1, but I do think there would be considerable merit in having some parts of Standard as 3+1 instead of 2+2, offering some single seats as well as larger bays for families and groups, furthermore on the 3 side the train wouldn't feel crowded until a third person sat in the row.

 

[trainophile]

Isn’t that known as First Class?

Well yes, but not all trains have 1st Class. I’m thinking of TfW for one.

 

[DanTrain]

That's 2+1, but I do think there would be considerable merit in having some parts of Standard as 3+1 instead of 2+2, offering some single seats as well as larger bays for families and groups, furthermore on the 3 side the train wouldn't feel crowded until a third person sat in the row.

Fair point actually, I could see the logic in having one carriage ina 4 car train set out like that (I can’t see splitting a carriage between the two types being very space efficient due to the need to re-align the aisle in the middle).

 

[DanTrain]

Well yes, but not all trains have 1st Class. I’m thinking of TfW for one.

True...as I’ve just posted I could maybe see one carriage being set out like that... although I’d worry about shortforming messing things up.

 

[Robertj21a]

It's a great shame that the lady hasn't had the decency to come back with further comments after explaining her initial concerns. She can't expect progress if she won't contribute to the debate.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Shall we roll back to the 1940s and bring back compartment stock with "Ladies Only" compartments...?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Shall we roll back to the 1940s and bring back compartment stock with "Ladies Only" compartments...?

You are Jeremy Corbyn AICM5P.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-carriages-a-possibility-under-jeremy-corbyn

 

[sprunt]

It's a great shame that the lady hasn't had the decency to come back with further comments after explaining her initial concerns. She can't expect progress if she won't contribute to the debate.

What debate? All* I see is a succession of whiny men shouting "Sexist!" as a woman describes the actions she takes to avoid being harassed, probably for the severalth time that day. I can't blame her for not coming back to the thread to be shouted down again.

I was nearly killed by a careless driver three and a half years ago. I can't guarantee whenever I ride my bicycle that it won't happen again with another careless driver, with terminal consequences next time. That doesn't mean to say I am going to live my life in fear and never cycle on a road again, because firstly, serious cycling accidents are very unlikely for any individual, and secondly, curtailing my freedom by living in fear of a rare event is no way to live.

Okay, now imagine a situation in which you are nearly killed by a careless driver several times a day, and imagine how that might make you feel about cycling.

Did this chap do / say anything else that made you feel you had to call your friends or did he literally just follow down the train?

"Just" follow you down the train. FFS.

I think you’ll find she is making a general sweeping accusation that all men are weirdo sexual predators if they have the temerity to sit next to her.

No she isn't, she's saying that she can't make a reasonable assumption that a man who sits next to her *isn't* a weirdo sexual predator. Based on conversations I've had with my friends who are women, that sounds sensible.

If this is a true story, the article makes no mention of why the woman is so anxious. Is she afraid of people in general, does she suffer from generalized anxiety or did she feel threatened at that point in time? Why did she not sit in an airline seat (unless she had a reservation)? Did she really expect to have the bay to herself - really!?

If I was a woman on my own and didn't want company, I would have a book or earphones to hand and keep to myself

It isn't a true story - The Daily Mash is a parody news website, like an English version of The Onion. Interesting that you mention having a book or earphones to avoid having company - you'd think this would be a good signal that the woman wants to be left alone, but I've heard a lot of women say that there are a lot of men who won't take the hint, and will instead use this as an opening gambit for the conversation that they feel entitled to have - "What are you reading?", "What are you listening to?" etc.



*Okay, not all, there are a couple of people who tried to express a reasonable view without bull**** comparisons to racism.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What debate? All* I see is a succession of whiny men shouting "Sexist!" as a woman describes the actions she takes to avoid being harassed, probably for the severalth time that day. I can't blame her for not coming back to the thread to be shouted down again.

Where in the story is there mention of the woman being harassed (bold my emphasis)? The story says she was anxious as people walked past her

 

[sprunt]

Where in the story is there mention of the woman being harassed (bold my emphasis)? The story says she was anxious as people walked past her

I'm not talking there about the (fictional) woman in the story, I'm talking about @GoatSarah and the issue she's posted about in this thread.

 

[bastien]

I'll just point out, Ben Elton did this this joke in a routine about 35 years ago on Saturday Night Live. The old ones are the best ones.