School detentions

[90sWereBetter]

I've been thinking about my time at school (I only left two years ago, yet it feels a geological time period ago), and definitely one thing that irked me during high school were teachers who'd give an entire class a detention if a few people were messing around. That always struck me as unfair and ridiculous. Why punish everyone for the actions of a few individuals who clearly don't want to learn? It made me think "why should I bother putting the effort in and doing the work in these lessons if it's not gonna be acknowledged?"

Fortunately, only a few teachers ever did that. But still, it was bloody annoying to lose my own time through no fault of my own.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

The theory is that the actual offenders will feel really guilty about keeping the whole class inside for a detention and won't do it again. The reality of the situation is that if kids are going to misbehave, most are going to misbehave regardless and they may feel that actually, keeping the whole class behind is quite funny.

 

[bb21]

It all depends on the circumstance.

I spent my school days yoyo-ing between two countries and the contrast cannot be more stark. When abroad we used to get whole-class detentions if anyone in the class broke the so-called "Behaviour Code", but then it was a selective boarding school and most students were keen to learn, so the naughty ones would very quickly become the cast-offs and peer pressure meant that no one dared step out-of-line. It was a highly effective deterrent and reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" )) because no one wants to be in detention for an hour (or possibly longer but one hour is the starting point of the tariff) during mealtime. The worst one I remember was being in detention between 5pm and 8pm - no food, no toilet break - and you soon learnt not to do it again.

Over here this didn't work, even in the highly competitive environment of a selective school. Most of the students blamed the teachers for being unfair rather than the culprits for being naughty, but again it is not easy to implement due to students in the same form group going to different classes, so even if whole-class detentions were carried out, it would last no longer than the 15-minute break in most cases - hardly a deterrent.

So it only works when you have students who respect learning, respect teachers, and a school structure which actually allows this sanction to be carried out effectively. It's not a magic wand that solves all problems.

 

[Cambus731]

The way the bus diagrams worked during my first year at Comprehensive,
I used to go to school on a Bristol FLF Lodekka, and go back home on a Leyland National. But if I ever got held after school for any reason. I'd travel back home on the Bristol FLF.
I do seem to remember coming home on the Lodekka a helluva lot.

 

[maniacmartin]

I didn't think it is fair, and still don't.

 

[12CSVT]

Whole class detentions seemed to be the norm in 1970s and 1980s. And they were just as unfair then as they are now.

Something I objected to even more was detentions for getting low marks in school work, as they disproportionately affected the not so bright pupils. Those who were struggling were likely to lack self confidence, and detentions in those circumstances just knocked their confidence even further.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to remember a detention because someone in the class did something bad and the teacher didn't know who it was, so the whole class was to be detained until someone admitted it. I also seem to remember that nobody did and they gave up in the end.

I also recall something similar happening with the same teacher and another class, and someone in that class admitted the offence despite not having done it, getting the cane for his troubles but gaining huge amounts of popularity.

So I'd suggest that whole class detentions for individual offences are either unfair or ineffective or both. Perhaps they are justified if the whole class has been badly behaved.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

In my school we still retain after-school and Saturday detentions. I admit I've had my fair share of after-schools through late homeworks etc . Not had one for like 2 years now. The only whole class detention was when a cover teacher got terrorized and we ended up getting a bollocking off the art teacher (wtf?) as a class and had to go back at lunchtime.

The one Biology lunchtime detention was quite fun, however, they make me feed all the tarantulas and axolotls.

 

[Yew]

The ting I never understood, is that people in detentions where expected to copy out the schools code of conduct, instead this time should have been used productively..

 

[Crossover]

Our school detentions consisted of reading a book...not that I know directly as I never had detention in my time at school :P

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The after school deto stuff was a wad of paper with a scenario that you had to read through and answer questions on, I remember I could answer without reading I heard that you just do work now.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . one thing that irked me during high school were teachers who'd give an entire class a detention if a few people were messing around. That always struck me as unfair and ridiculous. Why punish everyone for the actions of a few individuals . . . .

It's an interesting question, and there are several arguments in terms of ethics, for and against.

In society there are countless examples of a person's actions having an impact on a wider group, sometimes with little consideration for the others in the group. School seems to be an excellent forum to explore those relations, and I'm sorry to hear that after all that time you haven't appreciated some of those insights.

Many examples concern cooperation, such as allowing others to pass when walking on on busy pavements, contributing to neighbourhood maintenance schemes, collaborative data processing, playing in a band, joining a business venture, becoming one of a sports team, becoming one of a military team, becoming one of an investments team.

Other examples concern exclusion, and how we treat people who are not behaving as others do, such as suffers of severe medical conditions, those excluded on grounds of prejudice, those who have been excluded by society (e.g. prisoners) or by a division of society (e.g. contagious people by medical experts) or by them selves (e.g. contageous people by voluntary withdrawal), or by legalised personal relations (e.g. the children of divorced parents).

I see lots to be learned from class actions. How sad it is that you haven't been able to appreciate some of the insights into other people's difficult situations that class action offers.

 

[edwin_m]

But I think the OP is about the behaviour of the few leading to the whole class being punished. Those in the class who are innocent of, but adversely affected by, the initial bad behaviour end up being punished twice whereas the perpetrators are only punished once.

The disciplinarian teachers I referred to above used to make people copy out pages of the dictionary as a punishment. I've never been able to look a dictionary in the eye since.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

But I think the OP is about the behaviour of the few leading to the whole class being punished. . . . . .

Yes, and so was I !
My examples of 'real life' situations was intended to illustrate how the "whole class punishment" operates in adult groups too, where one person's error places the whole group in a significant disadvantage, through no fault of their own.

 

[bb21]

I didn't think it is fair, and still don't.

It's all about collective responsibility and depends on how this matter is viewed. Is the whole class seen as a group, therefore everyone must take responsibility to ensure that the group maintains a high standard, or are students of a class seen as individuals so that one person's actions should bear no consequence on others - potentially leading to a complete disregard for others? Two different perspectives, neither of which is more correct, or fairer, than the other. If taken to the extremes, both can cause massive problems.

 

[Welshman]

At my school many years ago, the prefects had powers of imposing detentions on individuals.

It wasn't a prerogative they exercised frequently though, when they soon realised they too would have to stay behind to supervise them.

 

[Bayum]

It's an interesting question, and there are several arguments in terms of ethics, for and against.

In society there are countless examples of a person's actions having an impact on a wider group, sometimes with little consideration for the others in the group. School seems to be an excellent forum to explore those relations, and I'm sorry to hear that after all that time you haven't appreciated some of those insights.

Many examples concern cooperation, such as allowing others to pass when walking on on busy pavements, contributing to neighbourhood maintenance schemes, collaborative data processing, playing in a band, joining a business venture, becoming one of a sports team, becoming one of a military team, becoming one of an investments team.

Other examples concern exclusion, and how we treat people who are not behaving as others do, such as suffers of severe medical conditions, those excluded on grounds of prejudice, those who have been excluded by society (e.g. prisoners) or by a division of society (e.g. contagious people by medical experts) or by them selves (e.g. contageous people by voluntary withdrawal), or by legalised personal relations (e.g. the children of divorced parents).

I see lots to be learned from class actions. How sad it is that you haven't been able to appreciate some of the insights into other people's difficult situations that class action offers.

I think the issue here (and with other posts, not just yours), is that secondary schools don't seem to work through punishments with students. Whilst the punishment is followed, they're not reflected upon enough. In my classroom, if my teaching assistant or I give out punishments for ten minutes at break or whatever, we sit with the individual(s) and we reflect on why they're here with them. This usually involves us discussing the impact of their behaviour on: me as their teacher, the education of others and their education and impact on the school as a whole. This reflective approach works wonders in my classroom and many other primary classrooms, because we as primary teachers can afford the time and are able to do this, whilst secondary teachers ultimately have many more responsibilities and not as much contact time with their students.

It's all about collective responsibility and depends on how this matter is viewed. Is the whole class seen as a group, therefore everyone must take responsibility to ensure that the group maintains a high standard, or are students of a class seen as individuals so that one person's actions should bear no consequence on others - potentially leading to a complete disregard for others? Two different perspectives, neither of which is more correct, or fairer, than the other. If taken to the extremes, both can cause massive problems.

What if someone from a popular clique causes the group to be put into detention? Will the students be as bothered then, if say a student who wasn't popular caused a whole group detention? Unfortunately in English and western culture, we don't see ourselves as belonging to a 'we' culture as they do in eastern Asia in Japan, South Korea etc.

 

[bb21]

What if someone from a popular clique causes the group to be put into detention? Will the students be as bothered then, if say a student who wasn't popular caused a whole group detention? Unfortunately in English and western culture, we don't see ourselves as belonging to a 'we' culture as they do in eastern Asia in Japan, South Korea etc.

You will soon become the unpopular one if this happens once too often. Peer pressure works wonders in a different way, and kids can be very fickle.

Cultural differences play a big part, of course, but that is not the sole reason. The school I went to abroad, there is huge respect for teachers, and parents cooperated with the teachers. Everyone (almost) wanted to be the best, and learning was seen as one of the most important things in life which can help you in the future. This contrasted hugely with the culture at the school I went to in this country. As I said in an earlier post, this is no magic wand. For collective punishment to work, you need various other factors to come together. This does not work in all schools, even in the same country, or the same locality.

I am grateful that I experienced it, and it was one of the first things that taught me the concept of collective responsibility, community, and looking out for each other, which is an important aspect of society. Of course there are other ways kids can be taught this, but I am glad that I was taught in such an effective way.

 

[Butts]

When I was at school I was subjected to corporal punishment.

First had the tawse (belt) at the age of 7 in Primary School in Edinburgh.

Had the cane (in England) on a number of occasions - we used to get the choice between detention and the cane....

Cane every time for me ....short sharp shock that didn't work judging by the number of times I received it. Far better than hanging about for hours after school.

Also teachers used to regularly throw blackboard erasers , chalk and anything else that came to hand in your direction.

Sometimes they would come up behind you and whack you around the back of the head.

Ahhhh. happy days

 

[island]

A number of occasions whilst I was at (an independent) school, the teachers gave a collective detention to a whole class when a number of people had misbehaved and weren't owning up, and said that they would reduce it to just those people if they owned up.

 

[Class 92]

I have got 2 years left of Secondary school (Year 9 at the moment) and we have break, lunch and after-school detentions, which really depends what teacher you get. I have only got break and lunch detentions which mostly last 5-10 mins so its not too bad but the thing that really annoys me is when one of the 'usual' person is messing around and the teacher is used to it so he/she doesn't get as bad consequences but when someone who doesn't normally be silly/mess around, messes around they get into more trouble then them! Even if its for something small.

Rant Over
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To add onto mine
We don't tend to get the whole class stay behind anymore just certain people. Also some teachers really need to learn how to control a class (not all only some) because some teachers are awful a good example of this happened yesterday and last week where we were messing around so much in a 1 hour lesson we only ended up doing about 10-20 minutes work (It was Spanish though so its alright! ) only about half the class were left by the time the lesson was under control. Some people getting sent out for things that they shouldn't get sent out for.

Now i shall end the rant!

 

[Darandio]

Fortunately, my son and daughter have so far been spared the wrath of detention, although I have no doubt it may happen.

However, last Monday I (the parent, not him) completely forgot to put his homework in his bag before school and he received the punishment of 10 minutes reading through each morning break that week. He also was forced to miss a party today which was reserved for those who completed homework on time, every week this term. It was the only time he had missed it this term and I didn't realise until this evening that he wasn't allowed at the party.

He's 6. :roll:

 

[Butts]

Would any of today's kids prefer the cane to detention if given the choice ?

 

[harry42]

At my school (in year 9) its after school only:

1 hour for no planner signed
1 hour for lack of equipment
1 hour+parental conversation for lack of homework

Etc.

And no, it isn't a private school, its a general main feed secondary school.

Oh, and yes I have had my fair share. And yes I think they are way to much!

Most teachers have full control, so they are rare. It will keep going though as Ofsted congratulated them on : "Outstanding discipline, best teachers in Nottingham and outstanding behaviour."

 

[maniacmartin]

Collective responsibility sounds good in theory, but in practice at the schools I went to (comprehensives) it ended up being the innocent being punished for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. No-one would justify this for adults (especially not a court), so why is a school any different.

With all due respect, I don't see any relevance to walking on a certain side of the pavement or joining bands etc. Most of the examples above concern people who have actively decided to group together for a common goal, rather than being in the same class whether they like it or not. Collective responsibility should come with collective reward.

Regarding students becoming unpopular, it didn't work like that when I was at school. Those causing all the problems were the popular ones, and I think they found the whole idea of a detention quite amusing - it gave them more time to annoy staff and behave like idiots showing off in front of everyone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1 hour for no planner signed

My mother refused to sign my planner all through my time at school as she didn't see the point in it. Sometimes she'd put smiley faces instead or deliberately sign the tutor's space or just scribble over random stuff. Perhaps all mothers of those in my class should share a detention

 

[Class 92]

We don't hate/dislike the misbehaving ones at our school because we do find it really funny cause of what they say/do. Also i go to a normal school.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Would any of today's kids prefer the cane to detention if given the choice ?

Nope.

 

[maniacmartin]

Nope.

It would depend on the severity of the caning, the length of the detention and who would witness it.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I just don't think it's right and you will probably get a teacher who will take advantage and do something other than caning, i.e punching or slapping. Also it doesn't really deal with the situation, you get hit and that's it, detentions are long and boring, makes you think, "do I really want to go through this again?". Hopefully you get the message and do something about it. Same goes for shouting at students, doesn't really get anywhere and you just end up with a sore throat. It's part of our school policy that shouting at students is prohibited* for the reasons I state.

*Doesn't mean to say it that it doesn't happen at times :P

 

[Johnuk123]

When I was at school I was subjected to corporal punishment.

First had the tawse (belt) at the age of 7 in Primary School in Edinburgh.

Had the cane (in England) on a number of occasions - we used to get the choice between detention and the cane....

Cane every time for me ....short sharp shock that didn't work judging by the number of times I received it. Far better than hanging about for hours after school.

Also teachers used to regularly throw blackboard erasers , chalk and anything else that came to hand in your direction.

Sometimes they would come up behind you and whack you around the back of the head.

Ahhhh. happy days

No political correctness then, remember it well.
Never had the tawse because I never lived in Scotland but the cane regularly in Grammar school.

Blackboard rubbers could be lethal, It always amazed me how accurate they were when the teacher spun round and flung it usually in the exact spot - my head.

When you think back having a wooden board rubber flung at your head it sounds terrible but it was just how things were, don't ever remember anybody getting hurt. Anyway if you went home and told your dad the cut on your head was from the teachers board rubber you wouldn't get an ounce of sympathy.
In those days teachers had respect from parents and unlike now they wouldn't be getting a solicitor on the case.