Scotrail’s alcohol ban - pointless?

[Davester50]

Tragic, isn’t it? Then there’s the abolition of Bridge Tolls, Prescription Charges - yes, we’re really suffering. Not!

And eventually we get there. The Party of Government cheerleader position.
Asked the islanders how the cancelled ferries are helping tourism lately?

 

[185143]

I'm sat drinking alcohol on a ScotRail train at the moment.

It's vodka in a bottle of Pepsi Max. So how anyone would even know...

Remember when I did my last Spirit of Scotland rover. Was supping a Tennents on an E-G 385. Got my ticket checked and no comment made. A couple of days later I was on an Aberdeen-Glasgow HST on a Scotland match day. Everyone. Literally everyone drinking. A couple of shouts of "Polis, Polis" as the sole BTP officer was wandering up the platform occasionally prior to departure and that was it. No issues, open drinking in front of staff, no comments at all. All very jolly and felt no different to services in England.

Later on that day I dared to crack a beer open on a HST from Aviemore. Got told off by the guard for it, offered to give it up and he told me to sup it and not open another. Fine.

Ended up on the last Aberdeen ex Glasgow. Beer cans everywhere, full and open. Very civil atmosphere onboard, far more so than on an equivalent train in England I'd say! I was openly drinking when the guard checked my rover, not an issue at all.

 

[DunsBus]

You're not correct.

Ah - thanks. Whenever I've heard the last call for drinks on leaving Newcastle northbound, I've always thought it's to do with the Scottish alcohol ban.

 

[dk1]

Gretna is still in Scotland though... (Although I get your point!)
Maybe some enterprising person will have cruises just outside Scottish jurisdiction!

That happened during the pandemic when Scotland was rather slow at reopening its hospitality industry for some reason. Nights out became very popular across the borders & in Newcastle/Carlisle etc. Similar exodus occurred around the Welsh border towns & cities too on the English side.

 

[Buzby]

Don't forget the income tax hike.

There will always be winners and losers - you get what you pay for.

 

[Starmill]

There will always be winners and losers - you get what you pay for.

Of course someone earning £27.5k pays a whisker less in payrolled tax if the live in Scotland than England.

 

[SussexSeagull]

It's actually a policy applied by Merseyrail since the James St incident, but ironically it largely doesn't prevent issues because the vast majority of Merseyrail stations are not gated. Indeed I witnessed an incident almost identical to* James St at Christmas which was narrowly averted by the train stopping before the drunk nutter had chance to fall under it. The policy is controversial because typical poorly trained staff are applying it to people who have coordination issues due to a disability rather than those who have consumed excess (or any) alcohol.

Crikey, I got out of my car yesterday and pretty much fell onto it and stumbled away. I bet a Merseyrail gateline staff member would have had me arrested for drink driving. The reason was in fact that I'd just done a full day hillwalking and could barely stand up as a result!

* But slightly different from it; the drunk nutter only started leaning/banging on the train after it had been dispatched, so no member of crew had done anything wrong. He then fell up the footbridge (!) before wandering off.

Not on trains but I have a long term hip problem that is getting better with rehab but involved me limping quite badly and having to lean on a table or anything near to get out of my seat. Before Christmas I was refused service in a pub because apparently I was drunk.

I was once almost refused entrance to a football match as apparently I looked drunk whilst been completely sober.

If train staff are going to start plying god and telling people with ailments they are drunk they are opening up a can of worms.

It’s a pretty good enabler though! If it wasn’t for that there wouldn’t be a problem. A shame that those who act responsibly have to suffer - but as the duration is minimal in most cases, we manage to cope.

I grant you alcohol problem makes them louder but not sure the train overcrowding part can be blamed on having one too many.

 

[sheff1]

Policing of stations is, putting it politely, rather non visible.

Policing was very visible when I travelled out of Glasgow Central a few days ago and was equally visible when I returned the same evening. The day before there was no shortage of police at Queen St either.

The number at Central was far higher than I normally see at major London termini.

Drinking on Scotrail trains - I didn’t see any.

 

[Buzby]

The usual joke is you’ll only see BTP personnel when 10 mins away from their Cowcaddens canteen (this is within the Central and Queen Street catchment area) anywhere else they’ll be as rare as hens teeth!

 

[Sputnik89]

The usual joke is you’ll only see BTP personnel when 10 mins away from their Cowcaddens canteen (this is within the Central and Queen Street catchment area) anywhere else they’ll be as rare as hens teeth!

True for anywhere.

I police a seaside town in the East of England. We have a very regular problem of a certain individual liking to sit on the edge of the platform with her legs over the tracks while talking to ambulance about wanting to harm herself.

The standard joke in policing is that BTP are always "45 minutes away", though in our case it is usually 60-90.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

And eventually we get there. The Party of Government cheerleader position.
Asked the islanders how the cancelled ferries are helping tourism lately?

This is a railway forum, not a ferry or tourism one. There was a recent thread about rail improvements in Scotland since devolution, including many given the go-ahead since 2007.

25 years of the railways in Scotland since the Scottish Parliament reopening

2024 will mark 25 years since the Scottish Parliament was re-established. I thought I’d start a thread to look at what has been achieved for the railways in Scotland in that time as well as issues and projects cancelled/kicked into the long grass. I’ll list some of the milestones from 1999...

www.railforums.co.uk

Apart from that, the Scottish Government have been prepared to negotiate with the rail unions so fewer strikes than south of the border.

Back on topic the drink ban hasn't bothered me any more than the previous after 9pm ban did. Both rarely enforced but in any case I can't remember ever having, or even wanting, an alcoholic drink on a train.

 

[Davester50]

This is a railway forum, not a ferry or tourism one. There was a recent thread about rail improvements in Scotland since devolution, including many given the go-ahead since 2007.

If you have an issue with my post, please do hit the report button.
I note with interest you've also failed to chide the non-railway related comments I was replying to. Very noticeable in fact.

Apart from that, the Scottish Government have been prepared to negotiate with the rail unions so fewer strikes than south of the border.

Yes, they have. And it's done the same with other organisations. It's also slashed budgets and increased taxes, so swings and roundabouts.

Back on topic the drink ban hasn't bothered me any more than the previous after 9pm ban did. Both rarely enforced but in any case I can't remember ever having, or even wanting, an alcoholic drink on a train.

"I'm all right Jack"

 

[dk1]

Back on topic the drink ban hasn't bothered me any more than the previous after 9pm ban did. Both rarely enforced but in any case I can't remember ever having, or even wanting, an alcoholic drink on a train.

Blimey I am so the opposite!! I thought that was what trains were invented for.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Just catching up with some of the more recent comments in this thread, I can understand and probably support the total "drying out" of the Glasgow suburban network and fully behind rugby trains in and out of Edinburgh on murrayfield match days being alcohol free zones, along with any football specials etc that are also deemed high risk but seriously stopping Mr Smith and miss Laurence having a quiet take away and bottle of wine on the 20:40 Inverness to Glasgow after their romantic valentines weekend away is just ridiculous as is the non-sale of alcoholic products on long distance catering trolleys or heaven for bed if they eventually reopen the buffet facilities on the HST just comes across as childish and petty and does a lot of virtue signaling about tackling a drink problem but is known about and that I acknowledge but actually in practice does nothing as it is unenforceable for the problem boozers and penalizes people like me who want to spend two and a half hours on a slow train in the darkness with a dram or two of rather nice single malt which of course Scotland is famed for

 

[styles]

I've been told the 2129 Inverness to Tain is full of revellers drinking, and nothing is enforced.

A few years ago the ban was after 9pm (I think) and I was told to quickly drink my wine or it would be taken away. This was on the last train to Wick, which was virtually empty at 9pm.
Meanwhile you have LNER, Caledonian Sleeper, Avanti happily serving alcohol in Scotland, and I presume TPE too!

And XC.

Also you're allowed to drink in the station at Glasgow Central because it's operated by Network Rail, but you can't in Glasgow Queen Street because it's operated by ScotRail.

It was the same with facemasks.

LNER service from London to Edinburgh. Get past Berwick and an announcement comes on saying face masks must now be worn.

As if the half carriage of football lads who have been getting tanked up for 3 hours are suddenly going to don a facemask.

Yet I took mine off as I got off the train and the conductor told me I'm meant to keep it on while inside the station. You know, that massive airy, not densely populated building which is completely open at one end.

Nothing said to the footy fans but presumably the conductor knows they're not going to comply so what's the point?

 

[BeijingDave]

If it was in any way enforceable, the approach of the more serious airlines (e.g. KLM, BA, Finnair) to drinking would be the most sensible one:

Tolerance of a few drinks, especially with dinner on a long-haul, but zero tolerance for disruptive alcohol-fuelled behaviour resulting in bans.

 

[Sealink]

And XC.

Also you're allowed to drink in the station at Glasgow Central because it's operated by Network Rail, but you can't in Glasgow Queen Street because it's operated by ScotRail.

It was the same with facemasks.

LNER service from London to Edinburgh. Get past Berwick and an announcement comes on saying face masks must now be worn.

As if the half carriage of football lads who have been getting tanked up for 3 hours are suddenly going to don a facemask.

Yet I took mine off as I got off the train and the conductor told me I'm meant to keep it on while inside the station. You know, that massive airy, not densely populated building which is completely open at one end.

Nothing said to the footy fans but presumably the conductor knows they're not going to comply so what's the point?

I was on LNER last week and there was no mask announcement, so presume you are referring to when it was a requirement and Scotland had different rules

 

[43066]

And XC.

Also you're allowed to drink in the station at Glasgow Central because it's operated by Network Rail, but you can't in Glasgow Queen Street because it's operated by ScotRail.

It was the same with facemasks.

LNER service from London to Edinburgh. Get past Berwick and an announcement comes on saying face masks must now be worn.

As if the half carriage of football lads who have been getting tanked up for 3 hours are suddenly going to don a facemask.

Yet I took mine off as I got off the train and the conductor told me I'm meant to keep it on while inside the station. You know, that massive airy, not densely populated building which is completely open at one end.

Nothing said to the footy fans but presumably the conductor knows they're not going to comply so what's the point?

It isn’t a legal requirement not to drink alcohol on trains in Scotland, in the way that wearing of face masks was, so Soctrail and LNER are free to have different policies.

 

[Christmas]

I still hear plenty of over zealous conductors banging on about the alcohol ban when leaving Queen Street and Waverley, even early in the morning.

When is this consultation going to provide an answer from Transport Scotland?

 

[John Bishop]

I still hear plenty of over zealous conductors banging on about the alcohol ban when leaving Queen Street and Waverley, even early in the morning.

When is this consultation going to provide an answer from Transport Scotland?

It will probably be spun as an election winning policy when they finally start living in reality and ban this stupid nonsense of a policy.

 

[DC1989]

It's a completely crazy policy and should absolutely be reversed.

The TFL ban is even more pointless but at least they don't even attempt to enforce it unlike the jobsworth ticket inspectors on Scotrail

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a completely crazy policy and should absolutely be reversed.

The TFL ban is even more pointless but at least they don't even attempt to enforce it unlike the jobsworth ticket inspectors on Scotrail

I'd see it the other way round. Alcohol is a pleasant accompaniment to a long distance train journey. It's totally unnecessary on a local journey and results in antisocial things like half empty cans rolling round the floor and poor behaviour, as well as "preloading" which involves getting as drunk as you can in as short a time as you can to avoid paying the price of alcohol in clubs.

There are those who hide it, but they're more likely to take their litter with them (e.g. drinking wine out of a coffee cup).

 

[DC1989]

I'd see it the other way round. Alcohol is a pleasant accompaniment to a long distance train journey. It's totally unnecessary on a local journey and results in antisocial things like half empty cans rolling round the floor and poor behaviour, as well as "preloading" which involves getting as drunk as you can in as short a time as you can to avoid paying the price of alcohol in clubs.

There are those who hide it, but they're more likely to take their litter with them (e.g. drinking wine out of a coffee cup).

I agree actually, maybe I worded it inelegantly. I think it's pointless because it's completely unenforced at all points on TFL, not because it should be allowed/encouraged.

I see people drinking openly drinking every evening on TFL services. I myself have been known to enjoy a tinny when I'm heading for a night out in Soho from the 'burbs. Not once have I ever seen anybody stopped/spoken to. If I were to open a can of stella right now and jump on a bus the driver wouldn't say a thing. If I then walked into a tube station and past 3 employees none would say a word. If a DLR staff member checked my ticket on the way to Abba Voyage they wouldn't even glance at my beer. So it's pointless for a different reason

Now if Scotrail left the policy in place but the staff just ignored it a la TFL then fair enough !

 

[The Puddock]

The TFL ban is even more pointless but at least they don't even attempt to enforce it unlike the jobsworth ticket inspectors on Scotrail

Now if Scotrail left the policy in place but the staff just ignored it a la TFL then fair enough !

I take it you haven’t been on a ScotRail train since the ban started? Although they usually dutifully mention it in announcements it is a very, very, very rare occurrence for a conductor or ticket examiner to try and enforce it. People drinking alcohol on ScotRail trains are ignored by staff 99% of the time. Especially since BTP made it clear to ScotRail that they don’t see it as a police matter to deal with.

 

[hexagon789]

Now if Scotrail left the policy in place but the staff just ignored it a la TFL then fair enough !

Staff are told not to attempt to enforcement it for personal safety reasons, I appreciate some apparently do - though I've only witnessed passive ignorance, never seen any enforce it.

Only the BTP are meant to enforce it.

 

[driverd]

Tolerance of a few drinks, especially with dinner on a long-haul, but zero tolerance for disruptive alcohol-fuelled behaviour resulting in bans.

In fairness, this is roughly how it goes in the rest of the country - though admittedly you won't get banned, more likely de-trained somewhere inconvenient (or, if very badly behaved, de-trained to police cells).

It works most places - including Scotland on other operators services - Scotrails approach is just a tad over-zealous (and, as others have said, unenforced and lacking credibility), in my opinion.

 

[Buzby]

Especially since BTP made it clear to ScotRail that they don’t see it as a police matter to deal with.

It certainly doesn’t stop BTP confiscating carrier bags of alcohol and preventing those from travelling who are three sheets to the wind. I even saw this yesterday at Central Station At the gateline to a Gourock train.