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Scotrail, Abellio and April

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Scotrail314209

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One thing I do hope they sort is the presence of ticket examiners after 10pm. They pretty much vanish into thin air.

It allows for some rather undesirable people to use the train, particularly on a quiet weekday night. It's not so bad on a busier Friday/Saturday night train, but quieter times I do get a bit uneasy.
 
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Scotrail12

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One thing I do hope they sort is the presence of ticket examiners after 10pm. They pretty much vanish into thin air.

It allows for some rather undesirable people to use the train, particularly on a quiet weekday night. It's not so bad on a busier Friday/Saturday night train, but quieter times I do get a bit uneasy.
I'd agree there. Was on a train from Blairhill-Queen St on Sunday night and was on my own in the carriage, and a rather obvious dodgy guy gets on and sits right next to me, asking questions about my life and background. I had to make up a completely fake story on the spot because I didn't know if he'd get aggressive or not and there was football on that day which inevitably causes division. My mistake for sitting in an empty carriage in the evening (won't do that again in a hurry!) but still, staff were nowhere to be seen.
 

alangla

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Deltic1961

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Well the Scottish Government are very anti-alcohol and Scotrail are directly controlled by them now. It was an inevitability. Another thing "sneaked in" under the Covid smokescreen.

But like all their other rules staff won't enforce them so it'll be up to BTP who I've seen once on a train in 55 years of travel. Not selling doesn't mean no consumption.

Scottish Government want to control and restrict every aspect of people's lives and freedoms one little piece at a time.
 
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Scotrail314209

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Well the Scottish Government are very anti-alcohol and Scotrail are directly controlled by them now. It was an inevitability. Another thing "sneaked in" under the Covid smokescreen.

But like all their other rules staff won't enforce them so it'll be up to BTP who I've seen once on a train in 55 years of travel. Not selling doesn't mean no consumption.

Scottish Government want to control and restrict every aspect of people's lives and freedoms one little piece at a time.
Oh well, if I’m going to see a show or out to a club, i’m going to have a drink on the train. People still do it.

They are very anti-alcohol, yet you can’t drink alcohol outside in Glasgow, but you can in front of Holyrood.
 

Goldfish62

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Oh well, if I’m going to see a show or out to a club, i’m going to have a drink on the train. People still do it.

They are very anti-alcohol, yet you can’t drink alcohol outside in Glasgow, but you can in front of Holyrood.
Friends of mine were travelling on a Saturday evening recently between Edinburgh and Glasgow and they said half the train was drinking.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I can sort of see where the idea for this policy comes from, they don't want large numbers of people with crates of cheap lager or strong cider disrupting the atmosphere for other passengers and potentially putting staff at risk, I would agree with that and would also agree with certain services being designated as dry. Where are my support for this stops and where this idea completely falls foul of basic human rights and and enjoyment for passengers is is that someone like myself who might have wanted to go by train from say, Inverness to Edinburgh and would maybe have chosen to do so show on an evening service with a couple of quiet drams to relieve the boredom and compensate for The horror of riding in a 170 will now take the faster coach and drink at home or pop into a pub on their way back from the bus station. So floating passengers and I'm sure there are many of us waiting in the woodwork just to come out and hit their are numbers for usage will pick the option that now works best for them as the train has no advantage anymore
 

Davester50

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Fantastic.
:rolleyes:


Would happily bet an E&G anytime day return that this message will stick permanently.
Very likely.
The none after 10 was a reasonable compromise.

People are fed up watching the entire service being undermined and in managed decline.

But when one of Transport Scotland’s stated aims is to encourage less travel, it makes sense.

They're obsessed with Active Travel.
Which is fine for those able, but really shafts those not.
 

permarquis

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I don't really understand why so many people here feel so strongly about this. Clearly they feel allowing alcohol is more trouble than its worth, which is a position I can understand. They are running a public transport service, not a Wetherspoons. You remain able to bring as much food and non-alcoholic drink on board as you like, so the idea that this "falls foul of basic human rights" feels absurd.

I'm very liberal on most drugs, and that includes alcohol, but I don't understand why any business should be expected to facilitate intoxicants if they don't want to. If a train is offering a proper dining service, I can understand why you might want a drink with your meal, and I'd argue that's a very different proposition to letting people stock up on cans at 11AM on a Sunday. The railway should not be a pub replacement.
 

Davester50

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Clearly they feel allowing alcohol is more trouble than its worth, which is a position I can understand.
All that does is p off the folk who do want a drink to pass the journey who don't cause problems.
The ones who will cause problems won't give a flying fig about any ban.

Curtailing rights using the Covid excuse is a slippery slope.
 

permarquis

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Curtailing rights using the Covid excuse is a slippery slope.
If it became completely outlawed on the railway, perhaps I'd agree, but ultimately this is just a business/organisation making a decision about what behaviour it's happy to tolerate. Nobody is stopping you drinking elsewhere; they're just asking you not to do so on their premises. Drinking culture on trains was a problem long before the pandemic ever happened and I think it's a valid concern.

The ones who will cause problems won't give a flying fig about any ban.
Operators wouldn't run dry trains if they didn't think they had an impact. Nevertheless I do see your point here, and you're absolutely right that someone quietly enjoying their journey with a drink does no harm, but I just don't understand why it's so important that the drink contain alcohol.

If passengers want to consume something alcoholic purely because they dislike all other drinks, that suggests to me that there's a serious problem in this country. If that's not the case, and they do like other drinks, there are infinite alternatives available to them that they can enjoy instead. Soft drinks (and non-alcoholic alternatives) do not alter your behaviour or inhibit brain function in the way alcohol does, so it seems utterly reasonable to me that it would be restricted in certain settings, not least a busy railway. If someone were drinking on your morning bus to work, I suspect you (as in, most people here) would find that inappropriate. Why is it less so on a train? If drinking is important to you when travelling, you have the choice of other options (including on the railway on certain routes, such as with LNER).

Perhaps I'm being ungenerous here, but it feels like people are just chafing at the expectation that they adjust their behaviour slightly. It seems very over the top to frame this as an attack on fundamental human rights, particularly given that "the right to drink booze on trains" is not one most human rights lawyers would recognise!
 

Deltic1961

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But alcohol sales are a good money spinner. Banning something that actually makes them money is just silly especially when said business is struggling for revenue.

With everything the Scottish Government are doing it's about restricting freedoms without considering the long term implications. Finance has never been their strong point.

BTP should be there to deal with any trouble makers and leave the rest of us alone, but the easier way out is just to ban it for everyone.

P.S. I never drink alcohol on trains but don't see why others should have this imposed on them.
 

Christmas

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Beyond the skeleton service it seems like ScotRail can't even get the flow of vehicles right. I've observed countless virtually empty 6 and 7 cars running around carrying what would fit into a 3 car on journeys away from Glasgow, yet they choose to run 3 cars going into the city on morning peaks with passengers standing.

Also as part of their 'journey to net zero' they've started to put meaningless stickers on the bins in trains, for example 'general waste' and 'mixed recyclables'. Guess what? Passengers don't differentiate and shove their rubbish into any bin. A waste of time but it will please Transport Scotland no end.
 
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takno

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If it became completely outlawed on the railway, perhaps I'd agree, but ultimately this is just a business/organisation making a decision about what behaviour it's happy to tolerate. Nobody is stopping you drinking elsewhere; they're just asking you not to do so on their premises. Drinking culture on trains was a problem long before the pandemic ever happened and I think it's a valid concern.


Operators wouldn't run dry trains if they didn't think they had an impact. Nevertheless I do see your point here, and you're absolutely right that someone quietly enjoying their journey with a drink does no harm, but I just don't understand why it's so important that the drink contain alcohol.

If passengers want to consume something alcoholic purely because they dislike all other drinks, that suggests to me that there's a serious problem in this country. If that's not the case, and they do like other drinks, there are infinite alternatives available to them that they can enjoy instead. Soft drinks (and non-alcoholic alternatives) do not alter your behaviour or inhibit brain function in the way alcohol does, so it seems utterly reasonable to me that it would be restricted in certain settings, not least a busy railway. If someone were drinking on your morning bus to work, I suspect you (as in, most people here) would find that inappropriate. Why is it less so on a train? If drinking is important to you when travelling, you have the choice of other options (including on the railway on certain routes, such as with LNER).

Perhaps I'm being ungenerous here, but it feels like people are just chafing at the expectation that they adjust their behaviour slightly. It seems very over the top to frame this as an attack on fundamental human rights, particularly given that "the right to drink booze on trains" is not one most human rights lawyers would recognise!
In short, this isn't a business, it's a publicly owned monopoly which should be subject to different standards and rules. There also isn't a particular drinking problem on the vast majority of ScotRail trains even after 9, and this does nothing to address any problems that do happen, which are typically caused by people who drank before they got on.

As has been previously mentioned, making a lot of these large-scale retrograde changes under cover of Covid and without proper oversight may seem clever to the half-witted cycling zealots making the decisions, but it's no way to run a democracy
 

John Bishop

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I don't really understand why so many people here feel so strongly about this. Clearly they feel allowing alcohol is more trouble than its worth, which is a position I can understand. They are running a public transport service, not a Wetherspoons. You remain able to bring as much food and non-alcoholic drink on board as you like, so the idea that this "falls foul of basic human rights" feels absurd.

I'm very liberal on most drugs, and that includes alcohol, but I don't understand why any business should be expected to facilitate intoxicants if they don't want to. If a train is offering a proper dining service, I can understand why you might want a drink with your meal, and I'd argue that's a very different proposition to letting people stock up on cans at 11AM on a Sunday. The railway should not be a pub replacement.
The reality of the situation on the front line is that the ban makes no difference to the alcohol induced anti -social behaviour. The decent, rule abiding people adhere to the ban but the troublemakers don’t but the crux of the issue is that the ban is not Policed to make it effective.

I’ve watched the BTP walk through a train and completely ignore several tables of people drinking alcohol on open display. The conductors aren’t and shouldn’t be expected to Police this due to the adverse reactions and subsequent abuse they receive for trying to do so.

The ban only really stops the rule abiding person who would only be having a sociable few drinks during the journey and not causing any bother. The sort of people it’s aimed at just ignore it and drink anyway, so I see no point at all in this ban.
 

Goldfish62

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The reality of the situation on the front line is that the ban makes no difference to the alcohol induced anti -social behaviour. The decent, rule abiding people adhere to the ban but the troublemakers don’t but the crux of the issue is that the ban is not Policed to make it effective.

I’ve watched the BTP walk through a train and completely ignore several tables of people drinking alcohol on open display. The conductors aren’t and shouldn’t be expected to Police this due to the adverse reactions and subsequent abuse they receive for trying to do so.

The ban only really stops the rule abiding person who would only be having a sociable few drinks during the journey and not causing any bother. The sort of people it’s aimed at just ignore it and drink anyway, so I see no point at all in this ban.
Absolutely. Totally agree.
 

Davester50

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The reality of the situation on the front line is that the ban makes no difference to the alcohol induced anti -social behaviour. The decent, rule abiding people adhere to the ban but the troublemakers don’t but the crux of the issue is that the ban is not Policed to make it effective.

I’ve watched the BTP walk through a train and completely ignore several tables of people drinking alcohol on open display. The conductors aren’t and shouldn’t be expected to Police this due to the adverse reactions and subsequent abuse they receive for trying to do so.

The ban only really stops the rule abiding person who would only be having a sociable few drinks during the journey and not causing any bother. The sort of people it’s aimed at just ignore it and drink anyway, so I see no point at all in this ban.
Put it better than I could, and still the puritans can't see it, but they're getting their jollies from getting one over the social drinkers.
 

Wynd

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One of the many reasons people take the train is to be liberated from the constraints of the car.

A drink or two multiplied over many passengers would result in significant revenue for Scotrail. Something the operator is in dire need of.

That wouldn't preclude the exceptions for certain sports fans, which could remain in place as a matter of public order.
 

Davester50

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One of the many reasons people take the train is to be liberated from the constraints of the car.

A drink or two multiplied over many passengers would result in significant revenue for Scotrail. Something the operator is in dire need of.

That wouldn't preclude the exceptions for certain sports fans, which could remain in place as a matter of public order.
Yup, just bring back Dry trains for the football and rugby (and particularly the rugby) trains.
 

Scotrail12

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I saw an Aberdeen train when walking through Queen St earlier that was a 2 car 158. How the heck are the passengers booked on a 4 car HST meant to cram into a 2 car 158? Especially for up to 3 hours. And be expected to pay over £60 for the pleasure.

ScotFail are really handing business over to buses and LNER with this nonsense.
 
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Deltic1961

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That was exactly the point I made earlier in the thread. People book seats for a diagrammed HST then get a 2 car 158 at the last minute with no seating allocation or catering because the train is so crammed the trolley can't get through.

Fair enough if it once in a blue moon but it happens literally all the time.

Personally I would never use Scotrail for inter city travel. Megabus is a far more relaxed and pleasant experience. Myself and a friend went to Glasgow not long ago and took a chance on the bus. Was a Friday afternoon and it got in 15 minutes late due to congestion at Perth but it was far far cheaper. The Scotrail train we were going to book was cancelled funnily enough.
 

route101

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I saw an Aberdeen train when walking through Queen St earlier that was a 2 car 158. How the heck are the passengers booked on a 4 car HST meant to cram into a 2 car 158? Especially for up to 3 hours. And be expected to pay over £60 for the pleasure.

ScotFail are really handing business over to buses and LNER with this nonsense.
Seen that quite often two car 158s. Are the seat reservations back I take it? They used to be in one carriage.
 

Jordan1296

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I saw an Aberdeen train when walking through Queen St earlier that was a 2 car 158. How the heck are the passengers booked on a 4 car HST meant to cram into a 2 car 158? Especially for up to 3 hours. And be expected to pay over £60 for the pleasure.

ScotFail are really handing business over to buses and LNER with this nonsense.
Appreciate that this happens more than once but the reason for the 158 being used today was because the booked train was stuck in Aberdeen due to a broken rail at Portlethen.
 

Deltic1961

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Don't get me wrong, not blaming Scotrail per se, it's the whole system that is so fragile.
 

Jordan1296

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Don't get me wrong, not blaming Scotrail per se, it's the whole system that is so fragile.
Can only hope the system gets better. Have only ever had one bad experience on the railway; almost a year ago, to be exact. There was a fatality on the line between Montrose & Arbroath which, of course, nobody can be blamed for. However, we were only told two minutes before departure that the train from Aberdeen to Glasgow was going to be cancelled and we’d have to get a bus instead. So, cue a train load of people trying to get on a bus (which was already full due to bookings), only to be told we’d be chucked off at Dundee due more incoming passengers between Dundee & Glasgow.

There were no replacement buses laid on between Dundee & Glasgow, and only two members of staff at Dundee station on a Friday night, left to pick up the pieces. Most of us were told to transfer on to the LNER train which was stuck in the backlog, but assured it would be with us soon. It never did arrive. Instead, a replacement crew gained permission from control to take a train which was sitting idle at Dundee all along down to Edinburgh, and then we transferred over to the last service to Glasgow - arriving three hours after we should have.
 

Wynd

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Yup, just bring back Dry trains for the football and rugby (and particularly the rugby) trains.
haha, thats good. I'll remember that the next time I see folk getting hit by glass bottles in Murrayfield.
I saw an Aberdeen train when walking through Queen St earlier that was a 2 car 158. How the heck are the passengers booked on a 4 car HST meant to cram into a 2 car 158? Especially for up to 3 hours. And be expected to pay over £60 for the pleasure.

ScotFail are really handing business over to buses and LNER with this nonsense.

If only this was an isolated incident.

It would be very interesting to take a straw poll of LNER Aberdeen passengers as to where they are going and why they didn't take SR...

How much revenue is being lost there I wonder.
 
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