ScotRail - Abellio throws hat in the ring

[HH]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/dutch-firm-eyes-scots-train-deal.19319105

Or should that be clogs?

 

[Aictos]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/dutch-firm-eyes-scots-train-deal.19319105

Or should that be clogs?

I hope that if First don't win then Abellio take over as they seem to do a good job with Anglia and also with Northern.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I hope that if First don't win then Abellio take over as they seem to do a good job with Anglia and also with Northern.

right up their street with a few new challenges to add variety

 

[northwichcat]

I hope that if First don't win then Abellio take over as they seem to do a good job with Anglia and also with Northern.

The thing that lets them down with Northern is they spend the bare minimum on refurbishment when they have the oldest DMUs around. Green floor covering and purple seat covers don't go together and poorly fitted purple seat covers with a green floor covering look even worse.

 

[michael769]

The thing that lets them down with Northern is they spend the bare minimum on refurbishment when they have the oldest DMUs around. Green floor covering and purple seat covers don't go together and poorly fitted purple seat covers with a green floor covering look even worse.

Not to mention the inconsistent levels of cleaning between depots - something they would not get away with under SQUIRE.

 

[northwichcat]

Not to mention the inconsistent levels of cleaning between depots - something they would not get away with under SQUIRE.

The best cleaned units are the ones that are maintained at non-Northern depots e.g. the 323s at Longsight.

 

[185]

Be the ultimate kick in the teeth for FirstGroup if they get that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Be the ultimate kick in the teeth for FirstGroup if they get that.

and maybe thats what they need? That said my thoughts are with any employees who have been or will be affected by there current trubbles

 

[ainsworth74]

Why on earth is everyone seemingly rooting for First's downfall from Scotrail? I was under the impression that they do a very good job with the franchise?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Why on earth is everyone seemingly rooting for First's downfall from Scotrail? I was under the impression that they do a very good job with the franchise?

They had thee audacity to try and topple virgin. And they run bad buses

I was also under that impression too ainsworth and would be interested to hear any specific critiscm of first's running of scotrail.

 

[tbtc]

Why on earth is everyone seemingly rooting for First's downfall from Scotrail? I was under the impression that they do a very good job with the franchise?

Search me - First are doing a decent job with ScotRail (though, to be fair, the strict requirements of that franchise don't allow them to do anything else!).

Must be because they had the audacity to try to bid for Virgin's franchise...

 

[185]

Why on earth is everyone seemingly rooting for First's downfall from Scotrail? I was under the impression that they do a very good job with the franchise?

FSR's staff and frontline managers are honest and do a good job. Shame that the rest of the company isn't the same.

Whilst Abellio have their failings, they supply relatively honest performance figures and don't try to cut huge financial corners on safety.

 

[Inge]

Scotrail could run 100% of services on time and there could be no incidents on the line and people would still find something to complain about. It's just human nature. The reality is they are doing a great job with the franchise.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Search me - First are doing a decent job with ScotRail (though, to be fair, the strict requirements of that franchise don't allow them to do anything else!).

Must be because they had the audacity to try to bid for Virgin's franchise...

Nice choise of words

 

[Aictos]

The thing that lets them down with Northern is they spend the bare minimum on refurbishment when they have the oldest DMUs around. Green floor covering and purple seat covers don't go together and poorly fitted purple seat covers with a green floor covering look even worse.

Umm, why do you think that is? maybe something to do with Northern being let on a non-growth basis

Why on earth is everyone seemingly rooting for First's downfall from Scotrail? I was under the impression that they do a very good job with the franchise?

Indeed they do a great job up there, I've never had a problem with anything up there so far indeed I've nothing but praise especially for a certain West Highland station which did me a massive favour

I do think however that the Squire system should be introduced to ALL TOCs in England, Scotland and Wales!

 

[northwichcat]

Umm, why do you think that is? maybe something to do with Northern being let on a non-growth basis

What has keeping existing stock up to standard got to do with no growth? The mismatched interiors don't just apply to the ex-LM 150s even though they are the worst and like I said where they have fitted new seat covers they've done a shoddy job.

FNW fully refurbished the 150s they had, while Northern Spirit fully refurbished the 142s and 156s they had. Northern haven't fully refurbished a single train.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Didnt Northern Fully Refurbish the Ex Wales 150's? The Ones with the Tatty Yorkshire Vinyl's?

 

[northwichcat]

Didnt Northern Fully Refurbish the Ex Wales 150's? The Ones with the Tatty Yorkshire Vinyl's?

They still have the original BR seating so no. They replaced the seat covers and gave them an internal repaint - that would be classed as a refresh if it had been done by FGW.

 

[Aictos]

What has keeping existing stock up to standard got to do with no growth? The mismatched interiors don't just apply to the ex-LM 150s even though they are the worst and like I said where they have fitted new seat covers they've done a shoddy job.

FNW fully refurbished the 150s they had, while Northern Spirit fully refurbished the 142s and 156s they had. Northern haven't fully refurbished a single train.

I think you had better take a look at ainsworth74's post which explains my post better, I've even highlighted the text for you

When the current Northern franchise was let back in December 2004 it was done so on the basis that there would be 'no growth'. Meaning that the SRA (who was in charge of franchising at that point) made the assumption that passenger numbers would remain fairly static and therefore bidders/government would not be required to spend money on new rolling stock and other capacity enhancements. They would also not be required to spend much on refurbishing rolling stock and stations.

This was clearly a bad idea and is one of the main reasons why Northern struggle so much for capacity and with one of the oldest train fleets in GB. In fairness to the TOC they have managed to lobby PTEs and the DfT to get them extra rolling stock above what they're supposed to have but it's still not very much. Further they have undertaken some light refurbishments of their rolling stock and stations.

So I assume yorksrob's point would be that when the franchise is re-let (theoretically in 2014 but with the fallout from the ICWC debacle who knows when) that it should/can not be done on the basis of 'no growth'. ATW is another franchise that is saddled with a 'no growth' assumption in it's franchise agreement and is suffering the consequences.

Once you've actually read that, I think you will see where I'm coming from

 

[northwichcat]

I think you had better take a look at ainsworth74's post which explains my post better, I've even highlighted the text for you

Once you've actually read that, I think you will see where I'm coming from

I've never said there was a requirement for them to spend a lot on refurbishing stock. Northern's profits are a lot higher than were projected in 2004 so they could have invested more of their profits in to the up keep of rolling stock.

EMT's franchise commitment was to refurbish the units used on Liverpool-Norwich. If they had spent the bare minimum they could have kept an unrefurbished pool of 158s for other routes, but they refurbished all their 158s. When they acquired 4 of Northern's 156 they put up notices apologising for the shoddy condition of the trains.

 

[David]

I've never said there was a requirement for them to spend a lot on refurbishing stock. Northern's profits are a lot higher than were projected in 2004 so they could have invested more of their profits in to the up keep of rolling stock.

And a fair chunk of the extra profits are going back to the DfT in the form of reduced subsidy payments.

 

[northwichcat]

And a fair chunk of the extra profits are going back to the DfT in the form of reduced subsidy payments.

True but we're still talking about Northern taking around £30m in profits after that, not making a profit of £200,000.

 

[tbtc]

Oh good, another chance to debate Northern (regardless of the subject of the thread)

Scotrail could run 100% of services on time and there could be no incidents on the line and people would still find something to complain about. It's just human nature. The reality is they are doing a great job with the franchise.

True - I don't think people realise how good a deal they have of it - compare a thirty mile journey in Scotland compared to England or Wales and FSR will generally have more modern trains and cheaper fares too - it's a shining light of a franchise (and credit too to National Express for starting the ball rolling with the 170s)

 

[route:oxford]

Isn't this exactly what so many people want?

If Abellio were to win the franchise, it would mean that Scotland's Railways were returned to State Control.

Thinking about it... If East Coast remained unfranchised, the only trains operating on Scotland's Rails that weren't state owned would be the WCML services.

East Coast - State Owned (Arms Length Co)
Cross Country - State Owned (DB Regio)
Scotrail - State Owned (Abellio)

 

[Blindtraveler]

agree First arnt doing badly but I just want to see them go down the pan for getting to big for there boots

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What? You want to punish a company for trying to expand operations?

 

[anthony263]

agree First arnt doing badly but I just want to see them go down the pan for getting to big for there boots

Can't see that happening anytime soon.

I am expecting First to come out of this fighting especially with many other franchises coming up for tender.

They would be most welcomed if they were to win the wales franchise from Arriva.

Anyway my money is on First gaining at least one of the big franchises such as the Great Western where I think they have done a good job with what they have had available.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't this exactly what so many people want?

If Abellio were to win the franchise, it would mean that Scotland's Railways were returned to State Control.
Thinking about it... If East Coast remained unfranchised, the only trains operating on Scotland's Rails that weren't state owned would be the WCML services.
East Coast - State Owned (Arms Length Co)
Cross Country - State Owned (DB Regio)
Scotrail - State Owned (Abellio)

You forgot FTPE.
Do you really think that Greater Anglia staff are employees of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, or that Den Haag cares one way or the other about trains to, say Chingford? (to take just one example)?
These TOCs are in the UK private sector, even if their ultimate shareholders are EU states, and their "ownership" is in any case only temporary pending the next franchise.
Anyway the trains are all owned by ROSCOs (private sector banks, basically).
My local buses (Arriva) are certainly owned by DB (not a franchise) but people don't go on about them being "state owned".

 

[TUC]

Whilst Abellio have their failings, they supply relatively honest performance figures and don't try to cut huge financial corners on safety.

They just cut corners on anything to do with passenger comfort instead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The thing that lets them down with Northern is they spend the bare minimum on refurbishment when they have the oldest DMUs around. Green floor covering and purple seat covers don't go together and poorly fitted purple seat covers with a green floor covering look even worse.

They also need to learn that green floor covering that has ground-in dirt still shows the ground-in dirt no matter how manner times you go over it with a mop.

 

[northwichcat]

What? You want to punish a company for trying to expand operations?

If you look at the First Bus thread in the Other Transport forum you'd realise First aren't really trying to get bigger but to have more profitable operations.