scotrail and a lady with dwarfism

[Spankthemonkey]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...cant-reach-button-to-open-the-carriage-doors/

Seems like it's open season at the moment for complaints like these. After the xc disabled athelete controversy, now this!

A DWARF has slammed ScotRail over claims she’s missing trains – because she’s too small to reach the button to open the carriage doors.

Paige Stevenson, from Clydebank – who is just three and a half feet tall – says she was unable to get on a train at Edinburgh Waverley as recently as this morning.

 

[Trog]

Interesting by co-incidence only today in Tesco's I was asked by a relatively short lady to pass her some things from one of the higher shelves which she could not reach. Perhaps Tesco should be made to put all their goods on shelves of a middling height so nothing is to high for shorter people to reach or so low as to be an awkward stoop for taller people.

As for the young lady with the railway door button problem, if that happened to me I would start carrying something like a folding umbrella to make sure that in future I could independently deal with the problem myself.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

As for the young lady with the railway door button problem, if that happened to me I would start carrying something like a folding umbrella to make sure that in future I could independently deal with the problem myself.

That seems a fairly obvious solution. The press reports suggest that it's not up to Scotrail to determine the height of the door buttons as these are mandated ( by reference to the interests of wheelchair users perhaps?) In a Scottish winter, would you really want to leave the doors open any longer than necessary? It's a standard feature of modern stock that doors close automatically, even if the train is not ready to depart.

Did anyone notice the use of the term "signalman"? In the context I suppose this meant a man with a signal, a dispatcher in other words. Would it be part of a dispatcher's responsibilities to ensure that disabled passengers had boarded without difficulty. It might have been the guard, as man with signal could also fit.

 

[BestWestern]

"The Signalman came onto the platform to whistle for the train to leave..."

No, he didn't. Unless NR and ScotRail have managed to get away with some pretty radical staff streamlining lately!

In reality then, there was in fact a staff member, who did in fact let her on. There is no story here, beyond somebody talking rubbish and a lame journo Facebook-surfing for 'news', because they're either lazy, just crap at their job, or indeed both. Yawn.

 

[Qwerty133]

Seems like one of the everything must revolve around me brigade. As soon as the dispatcher (who wouldn't be a signal man...) came to the platform they opened the door for her. Clearly keeping the doors open is not a good idea to keep the heating/aircon systems working and the saloons at a reasonable temperature.

 

[Qwerty133]

That seems a fairly obvious solution. The press reports suggest that it's not up to Scotrail to determine the height of the door buttons as these are mandated ( by reference to the interests of wheelchair users perhaps?) In a Scottish winter, would you really want to leave the doors open any longer than necessary? It's a standard feature of modern stock that doors close automatically, even if the train is not ready to depart.

Did anyone notice the use of the term "signalman"? In the context I suppose this meant a man with a signal, a dispatcher in other words. Would it be part of a dispatcher's responsibilities to ensure that disabled passengers had boarded without difficulty. It might have been the guard, as man with signal could also fit.

Mandating the height of the door buttons for wheelchair users would be short-sighted stupidity (as they require staff assistance to board), so presumably the height is designed to be what is easiest for the majority of average height people.

 

[jon0844]

Reading elsewhere about the S Stock doors, there is a longer delay for auto closing the doors in the accessible sections. I guess you could make those doors auto open if they don't normally, then hold just them open?

Would solve the problem, even if some consider there isn't really a problem. The impact on the HVAC would presumably not be massive for normal dwell times.

 

[AlterEgo]

Again, the death of journalism - one of life's noblest careers - continues at considerable pace.

The woman was described as having "blasted" Scotrail and wants them to leave the doors OPEN (emphasis theirs!). In reality she had written them a polite message, ending "can you please take note and consider my comments".

Jesus wept.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Im all for chrytisizing certain parts of Scotrails atitude and treatment of disabled pax but this is not one of them. What a load of nonsense.

If the journos want summit to write about then how about a campaign for turn up and go levels of assistance like on London Overground? Or the stinking atitude of some staff who feel customers with disabilities are a pest?
Will stop now in fear of doing to much of their job for them.

I hope the lady mentioned above finds a solution such as the long handled something or other to push buttons with.

 

[47802]

The question I would ask which may sound harsh but is it realistic for public transport generally to be able to cope with every type of disability? and where does it stop where do draw the line?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I dont think thats a reasonable expectation. It might also interest some that many foalk with disabilitties wish they didnt have to be coped with at all and would rather get on with it.

 

[MadCommuter]

I couldn’t not reach to open them.

I'm confused.

 

[Camden]

JML Foldaway Door Opening Stick anyone?

 

[DarloRich]

Again, the death of journalism - one of life's noblest careers - continues at considerable pace.

The woman was described as having "blasted" Scotrail and wants them to leave the doors OPEN (emphasis theirs!). In reality she had written them a polite message, ending "can you please take note and consider my comments".

Jesus wept.

I have never met Jesus so dont know if he wept but i imagine he would be frustrated by what you describe. It seems like a bit of a manufactured story tbh.


Generally, it is another example of where the application of the Public Sector Equality Duty and inclusive design reviews to TOC's would be of use. BTW someone shouldn't have to carry a special folding stick to use a train. That is the whole point of the recent legislation!

 

[sprinterguy]

The door open buttons on class 334 stock, which being a Milganvie service this presumably was, are a bit on the high side compared to some other stock; 1230mm above the door sill which is just above the maximum specified by the 2020 standard for persons of reduced mobility, but it's not considered to be something that requires essential rectification.

 

[BestWestern]

Generally, it is another example of where the application of the Public Sector Equality Duty and inclusive design reviews to TOC's would be of use. BTW someone shouldn't have to carry a special folding stick to use a train. That is the whole point of the recent legislation!

So then the legislation has failed, by not requiring a duplicate set of door controls two feet or so from floor level.

We cannot, even as an inclusive society, cater for every single permutation of every single disability. It just isn't possible. What we can do is ensure that the required assistance is available for those who require it. That assistance was provided here, despite the lady's nonsense story to the contrary. There is no issue here, other than crap 'journalism'.

 

[CentralTrainer]

JML Foldaway Door Opening Stick anyone?

Would that be available at Wilko?

 

[talltim]

Would that be available at Wilko?

Complete with video on the shop display

 

[Bantamzen]

JML Foldaway Door Opening Stick anyone?

Perhaps if it doubled up as a selfi-stick......??

Seriously though, it does bring up the question where the line is drawn for providing for those with disabilities. Keeping doors open in this instance might resolve this particular problem, but what if this lady was accessing the network from a station where there was no assistance? Would she seek assistance from the guard (assuming it's not DOO), or would she be better advised to request assistance in advance of her journey given that opening doors is a problem?

Although it is often possible to make some provision for those with various disabilities, sometimes the solutions only create problems for others. I can remember a cafe in Northwich whose only facility was a single loo, fully fitted out for people in wheelchairs. The only problem was that everything was designed for someone operating at wheelchair height, and people like me at 6'0" had to stoop quite far down to use the sink etc. Not a massive problem in the great scheme of things, but nonetheless it demonstrated how sometimes DDA solutions forget that non-DDA folk will also be using them. So for example lower buttons on trains would help those of smaller stature, but at the same time cause taller people to have to stoop. Not idea at trackside to say the least.

 

[DarloRich]

So then the legislation has failed, by not requiring a duplicate set of door controls two feet or so from floor level.

We cannot, even as an inclusive society, cater for every single permutation of every single disability. It just isn't possible. What we can do is ensure that the required assistance is available for those who require it. That assistance was provided here, despite the lady's nonsense story to the contrary. There is no issue here, other than crap 'journalism'.

no - what I am saying is that if the design is inclusively assessed at the outset there is a chance to cater, in a realistic fashion, for as many people with protected characteristics as possible. That doesn't mean everyone.

Having designed in the most inclusive way possible then the reasonable adjustment offered to this person with a protected characteristic is the staff member to help.

However we as an industry need to acknowledge we aren't as accessible as we could or perhaps should be.