Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[JumpinTrainz]

Noticed a lot more 385s at Glasgow Queen Street today during the evening rush. They’re very nice units. Long overdue on these routes - they see so many passengers especially during peak times! How they lasted with 170s and 158s before I’ll never know!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Noticed a lot more 385s at Glasgow Queen Street today during the evening rush. They’re very nice units. Long overdue on these routes - they see so many passengers especially during peak times! How they lasted with 170s and 158s before I’ll never know!

Remember, you've got the Glasgow - Edinburgh's via Cumbernauld coming into High Level now and also Glasgow - Alloa are now using them as well, so GLQ will be full of them now.

 

[InOban]

Looks as if there will be another delivery tonight - light engine on its way.

 

[800001]

Looks as if there will be another delivery tonight - light engine on its way.

**should** be 385029, was observed earlier with panel for delivery fitted.

 

[Mingulay]

4 car 385 on Dunblane service in first class. I like the train , standard and first class seats are fine. Don’t think there is much wrong with them at all for a commuter train

 

[youngac]

Last night's delivery seems to have went ahead. 385021 is also now in service.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Last night's delivery seems to have went ahead. 385021 is also now in service.

Yes 385029 left last night

 

[ScottDarg]

385117 moved to Corkerhill Yesterday (23/03). Looks like it's had some sort of repair done? https://flic.kr/p/24GbARi

 

[Highlandspring]

I can’t see any damage or obvious repair, am I missing something..? Nice picture by the way.

 

[ScottDarg]

I can’t see any damage or obvious repair, am I missing something..? Nice picture by the way.

Was noting the missing part of the Saltire - just assumed some sort of work had been done there and the vinyl hasn't yet been reapplied.

Thanks for the comment on the pic

 

[Highlandspring]

Ah I see what you mean now!

 

[snookertam]

Any info on how widely these units will be used out of Central in May? I know the Shotts route will be going over, will there be a large expansion on the Cathcart routes for example?

 

[youngac]

Any info on how widely these units will be used out of Central in May? I know the Shotts route will be going over, will there be a large expansion on the Cathcart routes for example?

Not sure about any further services on the Circle, but they should start being used on most but not all Lanark services.

 

[GusB]

From the Scotsman today:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/plans-to-introduce-battery-powered-trains-in-scotland-1-4894957

Plans to introduce battery powered trains in Scotland

Scottish passengers would be among the first in the world to ride on battery-powered trains under plans unveiled by Japanese firm Hitachi.

The company wants to add batteries to the new electric trains it is building for ScotRail which are being introduced across the Central Belt.

It would extend the range of the Class 385 trains on to non-electrified sections of track.

That could bring the newer trains with their improved comfort to lines currently served by older and more polluting diesel trains.

Hitachi said the trains could run up to 60 miles on batteries.

It said recharging would take ten to 15 minutes.

That would mean the trains could run beyond Dunblane – the northern extent of ScotRail’s electrified network – as far as Perth and Dundee.

Hitachi has suggested other routes they could be used on including from Glasgow to East Kilbride and Kilmarnock, and on a Glasgow northern suburban line to Anniesland via Maryhill.

ScotRail has ordered 70 of the Class 385 trains, which will become its largest fleet.

Nearly half of them are in passenger service operating on routes such as the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line, and to Dunblane and Alloa.

Hitachi has been developing the technology for 15 years and built the world’s only passenger train running on batteries, in southern Japan.

The Dencha – dual energy charge train – has been operating since 2016.

A Hitachi spokesman told The Scotsman: “There are various options for the Class 385s, including installing batteries underneath.

“It would provide greater flexibility for the operator and save a huge amount in electrification costs.

“It would make ScotRail the first alternatively-fuelled passenger train operator in the UK.”

The plan follows Vivarail showcasing a converted London Underground train on the heritage Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway last October. Passengers were offered free trips on the five-mile line over several days. A short-lived battery train also ran on the Deeside line east of Aberdeen 60 years ago using a railcar known as Sputnik.

ScotRail said the Hitachi plan was “at a very early stage”.

 

[Steamysandy]

Not really new!
Prussian State Railways had battery trains before WW1.An example is preserved in Poland.
After WW2,the DB in West Germany had a fleet of them (Classes 515 and 517)which I saw working in the Ruhr in the 1970s.They sounded like a milk float!.
These were single coaches with trailers attached when required
There was also the now preserved 2 coach train on the Deeside line -- now at .Dufftown
Nothing like re writing History

 

[Struner]

Like a Stadler Wink?

 

[hwl]

From the Scotsman today:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/plans-to-introduce-battery-powered-trains-in-scotland-1-4894957

Sounds like Hitachi really want to get TS/ Scotrail to agree to take up the options (with Batteries added) and keep Newton Aycliffe busy beyond 18months time.

Both good and bad for justifying more electrification.

Edit to add: they seem to be forgetting about 379013

 

[Mingulay]

Sounds like Hitachi really want to get TS/ Scotrail to agree to take up the options (with Batteries added) and keep Newton Aycliffe busy beyond 18months time.

Both good and bad for justifying more electrification.

Edit to add: they seem to be forgetting about 379013

Its an interesting and tempting idea worthy of exploring as battery technology improves

My natural instinct is " first in the world" is not something we have great recent experience on given the Dual fuel ferries languishing in Port Glasgow .

But if its a conversion that can be done with relative ease it would be a great feature . Added weight and impact on acceleration?

 

[RLBH]

Its an interesting and tempting idea worthy of exploring as battery technology improves

My natural instinct is " first in the world" is not something we have great recent experience on given the Dual fuel ferries languishing in Port Glasgow .

But if its a conversion that can be done with relative ease it would be a great feature . Added weight and impact on acceleration?

The two ferries under construction in Port Glasgow aren't particularly struggling with the innovative bits (which aren't actually all that innovative, just new to the UK) but with the perfectly ordinary bits of shipbuilding. The reason is simple - the power and propulsion system was subcontracted to an experienced firm, whilst the shipyard hasn't got much recent experience.

This doesn't really carry over to the Hitachi battery-electric trains.

 

[Mingulay]

Well it does if you take the view that I do. That first of anything is more likely to be problematic. Given that just about everything new that the railways introduce tends to be delayed it would be unjustifiably optimistic and contrary to experience that it would be seemless. That said. It sounds a very worthwhile consideration. One for Hitatchi to refine and prove they can deliver before it’s ordered.

And to return to the ferries. Your right. But we have yet to have the new alleged environmentally friendly propulsion system up and running yet so my expectations have yet to be tested in operation. If they ever finish the ships.

 

[snookertam]

Is the suggestion that the 385s themselves could potentially be converted to dual electric/battery operation, or are Hitachi more likely to be pitching for a contract to build new trains the next time an order is being made?

 

[route:oxford]

Well, that pretty much solves the problem of the Forth Bridge, Tay Bridge, Caledonian Canal Bridge and any tight tunnels on the Scotrail Network.

 

[SC318250]

385 delivery path been added for tonight

Not sure which one, but loco at factory for delivery

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Is the suggestion that the 385s themselves could potentially be converted to dual electric/battery operation, or are Hitachi more likely to be pitching for a contract to build new trains the next time an order is being made?

Within the next 10 years the Class 318s will need replaced and the Class 320s not far behind them. That would be a pretty big order as they cover the Argyle Line and the majority of North Clyde Line services. Not to mention they can be found around the Cathcart Circle and out of Glasgow Central. Perhaps this would be more suited to these kind of routes. I still don’t feel the 385s are suited to the ex-314 routes. I think they could have gone with something different. If it were up to me they could try and find a more suburban commuter train to cover Argyle Line, North Clyde Line and Cathcart Circle services.

Mind you in the way of reliability, Hitachi haven’t exactly proved themselves to be worthy of Scotrail ordering new units from them. I get there have been teething problems with Alstom and the 334s and with the Siemens 380s but there seems to have been major flaws structurally with the 385s which actually relied on other units being drafted in - something which has never happened before.

 

[SC318250]

I have a feeling the 318/320 may survive longer than 10 years.

They looked virtually new units after last refurb

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I have a feeling the 318/320 may survive longer than 10 years.

They looked virtually new units after last refurb

A lot of money has gone into the 318s and 320s and they look good but for me they’re still old units and in comparison compared to the 334s, 380s and 385s it’s evident they’re older. Trains have advanced a lot since then. I kind of hope they draft in newer units sooner rather than later but that’s just my personal opinion.

 

[Typhoon_93]

5X09 tonight is 67004+385030 departed Aycliffe 20:58.

 

[InOban]

Within the next 10 years the Class 318s will need replaced and the Class 320s not far behind them. That would be a pretty big order as they cover the Argyle Line and the majority of North Clyde Line services. Not to mention they can be found around the Cathcart Circle and out of Glasgow Central. Perhaps this would be more suited to these kind of routes. I still don’t feel the 385s are suited to the ex-314 routes. I think they could have gone with something different. If it were up to me they could try and find a more suburban commuter train to cover Argyle Line, North Clyde Line and Cathcart Circle services.

Mind you in the way of reliability, Hitachi haven’t exactly proved themselves to be worthy of Scotrail ordering new units from them. I get there have been teething problems with Alstom and the 334s and with the Siemens 380s but there seems to have been major flaws structurally with the 385s which actually relied on other units being drafted in - something which has never happened before.

Apart from the driver's window, what are these major structural flaws? Compared with the issues facing the new Northern fleets, the introduction of the 385 seems to have gone quite smoothly.

 

[scotraildriver]

Apart from the driver's window, what are these major structural flaws? Compared with the issues facing the new Northern fleets, the introduction of the 385 seems to have gone quite smoothly.

A few door issues now resolved. They are performing very well.

 

[youngac]

Any news about when the 4 units being fitted out in Italy are expected to return to Scotland?