Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Mingulay]

Nope this is a continual rant and a demand for compensation or discounts.

ScotRail continue to provide you with the service you pay your ticket for which is to get you from A to B and will compensate you in the normal fashion if delayed whether that be through a normal ticket or a season ticket although looking at the stats for your route they don’t look too bad so you’re looking for discounts and reductions where they aren’t due.

No one is denying the situation is currently grim but reducing pricing and subsequently stimulating demand is suicide and ultimately leads to the people screaming about the overcrowding screaming even more.

The thank you idea for once it’s sorted is a better idea or at the very most extra days on a season reducing pricing now in the middle of what is shaping up to be a capacity crisis is laughable coming from someone making such a big deal about capacity issues.

I think your missing the point. With respect.

I don't think reversing the price rise to last year will see hoards on the train. Was that the case a few months ago pre price rise ?.It would be a gesture to buy goodwill and patience. Much needed at a time of frustration for passengers. Any savvy company mindful of public perception seeing buffers looming should respond with some positive PR.

I'm sorry you feel that's ranting and screaming. Your choice of words suggests you have no time for passengers who make a fuss in your estimation.

But accepting your point is valid that any small price reduction leads to more passengers. Even if they say now. In anticipation of capacity issues in the next year. With effect from some point in the future they will discount all fares on affected routes for a period of six months to thank passengers for their forebearance . But do it now and try to gather some goodwill. I hardly think any of this is radical stuff.

 

[hexagon789]

I hardly think any of this is radical stuff.

I certainly don't think it's radical, I saw as a well-intentioned gesture.

 

[Altnabreac]

Nope this is a continual rant and a demand for compensation or discounts.

ScotRail continue to provide you with the service you pay your ticket for which is to get you from A to B and will compensate you in the normal fashion if delayed whether that be through a normal ticket or a season ticket although looking at the stats for your route they don’t look too bad so you’re looking for discounts and reductions where they aren’t due.

No one is denying the situation is currently grim but reducing pricing and subsequently stimulating demand is suicide and ultimately leads to the people screaming about the overcrowding screaming even more.

The thank you idea for once it’s sorted is a better idea or at the very most extra days on a season reducing pricing now in the middle of what is shaping up to be a capacity crisis is laughable coming from someone making such a big deal about capacity issues.

I agree that the core service is being provided and discounting all tickets is only going to make overcrowding worse.

An alternative goodwill gesture might be some sort of off peak leisure travel deal.

How about offering every season ticket holder a free off peak return ticket to Dundee to celebrate the opening of the V&A in the autumn? That would tick a lot of Scottish Government boxes and be an excellent goodwill gesture at minimal cost to Abellio.

 

[Carntyne]

Cutting E&G fares isn't 'thinking outside the box' at all. All it does is exacerbate the issue as more people travel on the crowded services.

The Airdrie fare was implemented to reduce end to end travel on the E&G to assist with capacity issues on it for those at intermediate stations.

Starving the franchise of revenue doesn't help anyone.

 

[hexagon789]

Cutting E&G fares isn't 'thinking outside the box' at all. All it does is exacerbate the issue as more people travel on the crowded services.

I haven't actually seen that it's affected passenger figures at all to be honest.

 

[170401]

I haven't actually seen that it's affected passenger figures at all to be honest.

Its been suggested elsewhere people are buying the Airdrie tickets and using them on the E&G anyway!

 

[hexagon789]

Its been suggested elsewhere people are buying the Airdrie tickets and using them on the E&G anyway!

Wouldn't surprise me

 

[Chrism20]

I think your missing the point. With respect.

I don't think reversing the price rise to last year will see hoards on the train. Was that the case a few months ago pre price rise ?.It would be a gesture to buy goodwill and patience. Much needed at a time of frustration for passengers. Any savvy company mindful of public perception seeing buffers looming should respond with some positive PR.

I'm sorry you feel that's ranting and screaming. Your choice of words suggests you have no time for passengers who make a fuss in your estimation.

But accepting your point is valid that any small price reduction leads to more passengers. Even if they say now. In anticipation of capacity issues in the next year. With effect from some point in the future they will discount all fares on affected routes for a period of six months to thank passengers for their forebearance . But do it now and try to gather some goodwill. I hardly think any of this is radical stuff.

Reducing the pricing to last years prices would save the average Edinburgh to Glasgow commuter around 28p a journey

Even transport journalist of the year Al Dalton wouldn’t have to spin that story to make ScotRail look bad. I can see the headline now “ScotRail admits they are crap and reduces fares by a derogatory 28p a journey in an attempt to appease passengers”.

An no I don’t think I am missing the point. It’s clear you think the only way to save the situation is by cutting fares on something that is already subsidised and overstretched as it is.

 

[hexagon789]

Reducing the pricing to last years prices would save the average Edinburgh to Glasgow commuter around 28p a journey

Even transport journalist of the year Al Dalton wouldn’t have to spin that story to make ScotRail look bad. I can see the headline now “ScotRail admits they are crap and reduces fares by a derogatory 28p a journey in an attempt to appease passengers”.

An no I don’t think I am missing the point. It’s clear you think the only way to save the situation is by cutting fares on something that is already subsidised and overstretched as it is.

What else can they do at the moment though? Not a lot it would seem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What else can they do at the moment though? Not a lot it would seem.

They'd be better doing nothing than reducing the price and so attracting more passengers.

What they need to do is find some spare 25kV EMUs - any 25kV EMUs - and I think there's some suggestion that is what they are doing.

 

[hexagon789]

They'd be better doing nothing than reducing the price and so attracting more passengers.

What they need to do is find some spare 25kV EMUs - any 25kV EMUs - and I think there's some suggestion that is what they are doing.

Yep, Class 365s. I think retaining the 314s and doing an internal EMU cascade has been suggested as well.

 

[Southsider]

Yep, Class 365s. I think retaining the 314s and doing an internal EMU cascade has been suggested as well.

Sorry, don’t follow that. What triggers the cascade? The 314s are employed until replaced next year. Where would they be used?

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry, don’t follow that. What triggers the cascade? The 314s are employed until replaced next year. Where would they be used?

Not my suggestion, so I can't really say.

 

[Altnabreac]

Sorry, don’t follow that. What triggers the cascade? The 314s are employed until replaced next year. Where would they be used?

It’s more a case of not doing a cascade as the 314s were due to start going off lease from Dec 2018. Cancelling that and extending the leases should be an easy win.

 

[hexagon789]

It’s more a case of not doing a cascade as the 314s were due to start going off lease from Dec 2018. Cancelling that and extending the leases should be an easy win.

Depends what you use the 314 on. More Inverclyde services?

 

[Altnabreac]

Depends what you use the 314 on. More Inverclyde services?

You just use them where they are now as there are no 385s to replace them as planned.

 

[hexagon789]

You just use them where they are now as there are no 385s to replace them as planned.

That's what I thought, it still doesn't give you any extra capacity though. Indeed, some will be lost when further 170s go south.

 

[Chrism20]

What else can they do at the moment though? Not a lot it would seem.

What they can do at the moment is more than likely what they are actually doing - trying to find a solution to the situation so that the services continue to run.

That is what needs to be happening at the moment rather than indulging in pointless gestures of goodwill that equate to pennies per journey and does nothing to solve the problem.

I’d rather ScotRails focus was on ensuring that services keep running than marketing stunts. If they allow the next batch to go and nothing is done to try and maintain capacity by all means hang them out to dry. If more sets go they will have to tell us and explain what they have done to maintain capacity, until then I don’t see the point in ScotRail providing a running commentary. It’s not helpful and is of no help to anyone.

 

[InOban]

The time to give any reductions will be after it's all over, to get people to try the new trains, and as a thank you for putting up with the delay and overcrowding.

 

[hexagon789]

What they can do at the moment is more than likely what they are actually doing - trying to find a solution to the situation so that the services continue to run.

That is what needs to be happening at the moment rather than indulging in pointless gestures of goodwill that equate to pennies per journey and does nothing to solve the problem.

I’d rather ScotRails focus was on ensuring that services keep running than marketing stunts. If they allow the next batch to go and nothing is done to try and maintain capacity by all means hang them out to dry. If more sets go they will have to tell us and explain what they have done to maintain capacity, until then I don’t see the point in ScotRail providing a running commentary. It’s not helpful and is of no help to anyone.

I know they are trying to do something, being in talks about obtaining 10 off-lease 365s is doing something.

 

[47802]

What they can do at the moment is more than likely what they are actually doing - trying to find a solution to the situation so that the services continue to run.

That is what needs to be happening at the moment rather than indulging in pointless gestures of goodwill that equate to pennies per journey and does nothing to solve the problem.

I’d rather ScotRails focus was on ensuring that services keep running than marketing stunts. If they allow the next batch to go and nothing is done to try and maintain capacity by all means hang them out to dry. If more sets go they will have to tell us and explain what they have done to maintain capacity, until then I don’t see the point in ScotRail providing a running commentary. It’s not helpful and is of no help to anyone.

What do you mean if they allow the next batch to go? if the lease is up and they are wanted elsewhere then its not their choice to make.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

Can anyone say definitively how many units have gone, how many more to go, and when?

As I’ve posted before, I reckon that there’s a minimum requirement of 14 EMUs daily for E&G, rising to 16 if every peak departure has to be doubled up. At present there are 4 380s in use daily.

Getting the 5 321s already scheduled to come would allow 4 more 380s to be cascaded from those remaining on Inverclyde services, leaving a shortfall of about 6 to 8 units per day for E&G. So that just about squares with taking 10 365s, although something still makes me sceptical about them coming north. And why wait till December? In fact, by then won’t 317s be available which would be a much better option given compatability with the existing fleet.

 

[hexagon789]

So that just about squares with taking 10 365s, although something still makes me sceptical about them coming north.

I'm still sceptical about that, but would readily welcome them.

 

[Stopper]

Can anyone say definitively how many units have gone, how many more to go, and when?

As I’ve posted before, I reckon that there’s a minimum requirement of 14 EMUs daily for E&G, rising to 16 if every peak departure has to be doubled up. At present there are 4 380s in use daily.

Getting the 5 321s already scheduled to come would allow 4 more 380s to be cascaded from those remaining on Inverclyde services, leaving a shortfall of about 6 to 8 units per day for E&G. So that just about squares with taking 10 365s, although something still makes me sceptical about them coming north. And why wait till December? In fact, by then won’t 317s be available which would be a much better option given compatability with the existing fleet.

I’m pretty sure there’s more than 4 now. Some xx:15 services in the peaks are a 4-car 380. Where that unit came from I’m not sure though.

 

[hexagon789]

I’m pretty sure there’s more than 4 now. Some xx:15 services in the peaks are a 4-car 380. Where that unit came from I’m not sure though.

I had heard that certain XX:15/:45 services were 380s, and I did wonder how that was covered for.

 

[Chris225]

I was on a 3 car 380 that was the 1745 service leaving Waverley the other day, and I think a 4 car runs the odd hour xx:15 service from Waverley as well. So 6 380's currently in use I think. 10 365's would in theory allow them to run a fully doubled up peak service but no room for maintenance or breakdown's. Although I also don't see the point in waiting until December as that means 8 months of misery still.

 

[hexagon789]

I was on a 3 car 380 that was the 1745 service leaving Waverley the other day, and I think a 4 car runs the odd hour xx:15 service from Waverley as well. So 6 380's currently in use I think. 10 365's would in theory allow them to run a fully doubled up peak service but no room for maintenance or breakdown's. Although I also don't see the point in waiting until December as that means 8 months of misery still.

Yes, another 8 months doesn't bear thinking about really

 

[mde]

Even transport journalist of the year Al Dalton wouldn’t have to spin that story to make ScotRail look bad.

Where's the like button?

 

[Chrism20]

Where's the like button?

I couldn’t resist it I’m sorry

What do you mean if they allow the next batch to go? if the lease is up and they are wanted elsewhere then its not their choice to make.

If there are enough palms greased anything could happen although it’s unlikely northern would agree to it easily.

I know they are trying to do something, being in talks about obtaining 10 off-lease 365s is doing something.

Entering lala-land for a minute I’d personally take 20 of them and run them as permanent eight cars and sell off peak advances till the cows come home on them and there is your cheap cut price tickets.

Leaving Lala-land again is ten enough to solve the overcrowding on E-G, Stirling and surrounding routes?

 

[hexagon789]

I couldn’t resist it I’m sorry



If there are enough palms greased anything could happen although it’s unlikely northern would agree to it easily.



Entering lala-land for a minute I’d personally take 20 of them and run them as permanent eight cars and sell off peak advances till the cows come home on them and there is your cheap cut price tickets.

Leaving Lala-land again is ten enough to solve the overcrowding on E-G, Stirling and surrounding routes?

I think 10 is enough for all E-G peak to be 8-car plus some spare units. Definitely not enough for the Edinburgh via Cumbernauld nor Alloa or Dunblane services though.