Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Failed Unit]

They aren't, and they aren't affected by the imaginary rule either.

So why do YOU think they gaurds are normally found in the rear coach? Too lazy to walk to the front?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why do YOU think they gaurds are normally found in the rear coach? Too lazy to walk to the front?

On LNR guards normally are *not* found in the rear coach; the default location is the front cab of the rear unit. This is rather TOC specific.

 

[Failed Unit]

On LNR guards normally are *not* found in the rear coach; the default location is the front cab of the rear unit. This is rather TOC specific.

I don't know if it is a rule or not, but certainly on Scotrail's services they are mainly found in the rear. Could be choice who knows, some used to change ends others didn't. Back in the earlier days of the franchise you used to have 2 catering trolleys, then it was reduced to one under first. Normally in the rear coach with the gaurd. This meant that you use to get times where the catering trolley was in the coach with no first class on those that had paid a premium and expected a coffee just got a nicer seat.

However back to 385s. I am one that certainly thinks that if trains are frequently worked in multiple then a corridor connectiong makes the journey much more pleasent. In particular if the train has catering. So I am in absolute agreement that the 385s were specified with them.

How often have I personally walked between sets, not very to be honest (apart from 153s). The two main situations that occur is when thier are no working toilets in the set I am in (which you could argue should not happen) or if I join one set find no seats available and want to walk to the front. With the 170s at the moment it is not uncommon to have the rear set full and standing and the front nearly empty. Would people walk between the 2? Possibly not but at least they will have the option. Shame that the gangway has caused mega problems getting these trains into service.

 

[InOban]

There are emus (?442?) on the Waterloo lines which have curved windows. Why don't they have the same problem?

 

[hexagon789]

There are emus (?442?) on the Waterloo lines which have curved windows. Why don't they have the same problem?

I think it's been mentioned that they have the curve horizontally and at the very corner whereas the 385s windscreens are curved vertically.

 

[Christmas]

I literally just got on a 6 car 334 at DBC to see the conductor run past me from the back to the front set - it does happen.

That was a ticket examiner, not a conductor.

 

[380101]

I think it's been mentioned that they have the curve horizontally and at the very corner whereas the 385s windscreens are curved vertically.

and horizontally

 

[hexagon789]

and horizontally

It's surprisingly difficult to judge that in photos!

 

[Mingulay]

I don't know if it is a rule or not, but certainly on Scotrail's services they are mainly found in the rear. Could be choice who knows, some used to change ends others didn't. Back in the earlier days of the franchise you used to have 2 catering trolleys, then it was reduced to one under first. Normally in the rear coach with the gaurd. This meant that you use to get times where the catering trolley was in the coach with no first class on those that had paid a premium and expected a coffee just got a nicer seat.

However back to 385s. I am one that certainly thinks that if trains are frequently worked in multiple then a corridor connectiong makes the journey much more pleasent. In particular if the train has catering. So I am in absolute agreement that the 385s were specified with them.

How often have I personally walked between sets, not very to be honest (apart from 153s). The two main situations that occur is when thier are no working toilets in the set I am in (which you could argue should not happen) or if I join one set find no seats available and want to walk to the front. With the 170s at the moment it is not uncommon to have the rear set full and standing and the front nearly empty. Would people walk between the 2? Possibly not but at least they will have the option. Shame that the gangway has caused mega problems getting these trains into service.

Is a catering offer such a need on a service of 50 min or less? It's not like it's a great culinary offer . You are better off nipping into simply food or Pret or Boots in the station for a decent offering. Coffee go to the obvious and a better brew! Or a cold drink not a tepid soft drink or bevy .Ensuring you don't leave the debris on the table as you get off! So. Assuming you can count on a working loo which you should as if it's not working the set should not be out then the need for a gangway is not great . I can't say I have ever seen a six set with 3 full 3 empty. You can nip off at a station and change sets

Seems there are more cons than pros leaving aside hindsight let alone driver comfort etc

Also. How many times have you got on a longer service to Aberdeen and the trolley has stopped . If you paid first class and no food offer you feel cheated in part.

Inter city hst. Yes lots of food offer. If your going to have catering do it well , not half hearted . As I said before less food on the trains. Less mess.

 

[Failed Unit]

Is a catering offer such a need on a service of 50 min or less? It's not like it's a great culinary offer . You are better off nipping into simply food or Pret or Boots in the station for a decent offering. Coffee go to the obvious and a better brew! Or a cold drink not a tepid soft drink or bevy .Ensuring you don't leave the debris on the table as you get off! So. Assuming you can count on a working loo which you should as if it's not working the set should not be out then the need for a gangway is not great . I can't say I have ever seen a six set with 3 full 3 empty. You can nip off at a station and change sets

Seems there are more cons than pros leaving aside hindsight let alone driver comfort etc

Also. How many times have you got on a longer service to Aberdeen and the trolley has stopped . If you paid first class and no food offer you feel cheated in part.

Inter city hst. Yes lots of food offer. If your going to have catering do it well , not half hearted . As I said before less food on the trains. Less mess.

Scotrail seem to think it is needed or they wouldn’t have it. Never felt the need myself. However 2 examples

1645 & 1745 Glasgow - Edinburgh services.
Yes you can get off at Falkirk and swap sets but as a lot of passengers get off anyway not much point.

Corridor connections may not be nice for drivers but passengers appreciate them.

 

[mde]

Is a catering offer such a need on a service of 50 min or less? It's not like it's a great culinary offer . You are better off nipping into simply food or Pret or Boots in the station for a decent offering. Coffee go to the obvious and a better brew! Or a cold drink not a tepid soft drink or bevy .Ensuring you don't leave the debris on the table as you get off! So. Assuming you can count on a working loo which you should as if it's not working the set should not be out then the need for a gangway is not great . I can't say I have ever seen a six set with 3 full 3 empty. You can nip off at a station and change sets

The SR catering isn't that bad - the coffee is decent enough. It must be a revenue earner though, otherwise Abellio would have flogged it at the earliest opportunity to a third party (if memory serves in the distant past First had reversed a previous decision to outsource and brought it in-house, hence they are ASR staff). In any case, isn't it in the franchise agreement that they need to provide catering?

 

[hexagon789]

The SR catering isn't that bad - the coffee is decent enough. It must be a revenue earner though, otherwise Abellio would have flogged it at the earliest opportunity to a third party (if memory serves in the distant past First had reversed a previous decision to outsource and brought it in-house, hence they are ASR staff). In any case, isn't it in the franchise agreement that they need to provide catering?

The coffee is much better than it was. Catering is mandated in the Franchise agreement, hence why the Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Dumfries-Carlisle services have a trolley again. The only thing not mandated was a buffet on the HSTs, Abellio chose that themselves.

 

[gingertom]

The only thing not mandated was a buffet on the HSTs, Abellio chose that themselves.

Abellio obviously thinks a buffet can make money so there's a buffet.

 

[hexagon789]

Abellio obviously thinks a buffet can make money so there's a buffet.

I didn't mean it was a bad idea, on the contrary I think it's a good decision.

 

[gingertom]

I didn't mean it was a bad idea, on the contrary I think it's a good decision.

I agree, it is a good decision. Abellio won't get rich from selling sandwiches but it will pay its way and make a small profit. Customers will use it and be happy, which is the point of the exercise- happy customers tell their friends and come back for more.

 

[hexagon789]

I agree, it is a good decision. Abellio won't get rich from selling sandwiches but it will pay its way and make a small profit. Customers will use it and be happy, which is the point of the exercise- happy customers tell their friends and come back for more.

I think some proper hot food could be really quite popular on the longer runs, I know I'd seriously condmsider buying a nice plate of hot food from the buffet on a cold winters day.

 

[gsnedders]

Is a catering offer such a need on a service of 50 min or less? It's not like it's a great culinary offer . You are better off nipping into simply food or Pret or Boots in the station for a decent offering. Coffee go to the obvious and a better brew! Or a cold drink not a tepid soft drink or bevy .Ensuring you don't leave the debris on the table as you get off! So. Assuming you can count on a working loo which you should as if it's not working the set should not be out then the need for a gangway is not great . I can't say I have ever seen a six set with 3 full 3 empty. You can nip off at a station and change sets

They're relatively often sold out of sandwiches in the evening peak and immediately after, which suggests there's demand for it! I would assume primarily from people heading straight from work, jumping straight on the train, and having somewhere to go at the other end, and not having time to grab something somewhere else? (I must say, though, that the relative lack of catering around Queen St now has made me tempted to get the sandwiches before!)

 

[gingertom]

They're relatively often sold out of sandwiches in the evening peak and immediately after, which suggests there's demand for it! I would assume primarily from people heading straight from work, jumping straight on the train, and having somewhere to go at the other end, and not having time to grab something somewhere else? (I must say, though, that the relative lack of catering around Queen St now has made me tempted to get the sandwiches before!)

Abellio has an opportunity here. Let's hope they don't blow it by offering a sub-standard service. Suspect they have done their research and all will be fine. Can't wait!

 

[Mingulay]

I think some proper hot food could be really quite popular on the longer runs, I know I'd seriously condmsider buying a nice plate of hot food from the buffet on a cold winters day.

I agree on a long train journey catering is essential. Ideally from a buffet car serving real food. It's a great treat to do that , adds to the experience of rail travel, but this is a soon to be 46 min journey. There is no suggestion the catering on these trains is going to supply a "plate of hot food" it's a trolley, offering a very limited range of snacks , tepid cold drinks , tea in the form of a tea bag in super hot water cooled by 3 capsules of uht milk . Yuk! Then the ensuing mess on the table fishing out the tea bag. It's not great.

Clearly if it's mandated to have it , it will be provided , but it all adds to the complexity of the process of delivering an on time clean train . Personally I can contain myself for 45 mins not to eat something.

 

[Southsider]

Any chance we can get back on topic?

 

[PHILIPE]

Any chance we can get back on topic?

Agree, especially after couple of reminders from Mods already

 

[Typhoon_93]

Aycliffe Update:-

385003-13 all finished in various stages of test or updates/mods.
385031/033 parked up in the sidings probably tests complete.
385105-108 in test.
385109-118 in production.
No 385 shells delivered this week.

Hope that helps someone.

 

[The_Engineer]

Aycliffe Update:-

385003-13 all finished in various stages of test or updates/mods.
385031/033 parked up in the sidings probably tests complete.
385105-108 in test.
385109-118 in production.
No 385 shells delivered this week.

Hope that helps someone.

Thanks, it does me!

 

[gingertom]

Aycliffe Update:-
No 385 shells delivered this week.

awaiting front end mods to accommodate redesigned windscreens perhaps?

 

[Domh245]

awaiting front end mods to accommodate redesigned windscreens perhaps?

It'll be front end mod related, but I suspect that it is more an issue of running out of space to store the completed (but awaiting modification and delivery) units at Newton Aycliffe than waiting for modifications to be done to bodyshells at Kasado/Tyne Docks/on a ship.

 

[gingertom]

It'll be front end mod related, but I suspect that it is more an issue of running out of space to store the completed (but awaiting modification and delivery) units at Newton Aycliffe than waiting for modifications to be done to bodyshells at Kasado/Tyne Docks/on a ship.

if there's major reworking to be done to the front ends does that mean every car with a cab (140 units) will have to go back to Kasado to have that work carried out or is Newton Aycliffe tooled up to do that modification work?

 

[Typhoon_93]

Aycliffe isn’t set up for any major fabrication type work but if the mod isn’t structural they could probably do it, space on site will be at a premium shortly as the IEP’s are now all 9car sets for GWR then VTEC until well after the summer.

 

[Southsider]

Aycliffe isn’t set up for any major fabrication type work but if the mod isn’t structural they could probably do it, space on site will be at a premium shortly as the IEP’s are now all 9car sets for GWR then VTEC until well after the summer.

The last few posts have jumped to the conclusion that front end mods are taking place. Is there any word from the factory on what is actually going on? Is the windscreen issue being openly discussed?

 

[Typhoon_93]

The last few posts have jumped to the conclusion that front end mods are taking place. Is there any word from the factory on what is actually going on? Is the windscreen issue being openly discussed?

No word from the factory and the testing is just making sure everything works and mods I mentioned are all post production mods to bring the first built units to the current standard (development is always ongoing).

 

[gsnedders]

if there's major reworking to be done to the front ends does that mean every car with a cab (140 units) will have to go back to Kasado to have that work carried out or is Newton Aycliffe tooled up to do that modification work?

Remember there's always the option to send them to Italy for structural work, especially the completed units which can be sent there by rail.