ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Stoney1979]

To be honest, grinding our axes (although with justification) about Wabtec & the length of time it's taken for the refurbished sets to appear, does no good - what's happened has happened & nobody can change it.

The recriminations can be left for when the refurbished sets fully enter service - I'm fairly hopeful that more will start appearing on a regular basis now

In the meantime, is it fair to say that the "classics" are doing a reasonable job? (if there are enough crew to run them, which is a big "if" currently obviously, but should improve reasonably soon as crew get trained).

I guess the scenario foreseeable future is going to be that the "classics" will be used, then gradually dropped-out if and when the refurbished sets arrive.

 

[43096]

In the meantime, is it fair to say that the "classics" are doing a reasonable job? (if there are enough crew to run them, which is a big "if" currently obviously, but should improve reasonably soon as crew get trained).

I guess the scenario foreseeable future is going to be that the "classics" will be used, then gradually dropped-out if and when the refurbished sets arrive.

When, not if, the refurbished sets arrive. Once they get to around 10-15 refurbished sets in service I would expect the unrefurbished sets to be taken out of use and sent to Doncaster for conversion. At the moment vehicles for conversion can be retrieved from store at Ely.

 

[Stoney1979]

When, not if, the refurbished sets arrive. Once they get to around 10-15 refurbished sets in service I would expect the unrefurbished sets to be taken out of use and sent to Doncaster for conversion. At the moment vehicles for conversion can be retrieved from store at Ely.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

 

[Highland37]

Sounds like you grinding your axe again.

Same old tedious routine. Nothing positive to say.

That's because there is very little positive to say. Despite the contract being signed, Wabtec have not delivered. A new development was the quote in the article.

And it's not grinding an axe. This company have rightly been shredded in the press and continue to not deliver. Given the money that goes into the railway and the fact that still only one set has been delivered, excrement is dumped onto the tracks in greater quantity, the passenger has to ensure a two car 158 for nearly four hours and that this is current and in the press, I suggest that everyone continues to point out Wabtec's failings.

 

[mcmad]

And as has been pointed out numerous times, you don't know if the failings are on Wabtec's part or not but why let that get in the way of your repetitive rant.

 

[cjmillsnun]

And it's not grinding an axe. This company have rightly been shredded in the press and continue to not deliver. Given the money that goes into the railway and the fact that still only one set has been delivered, excrement is dumped onto the tracks in greater quantity, the passenger has to ensure a two car 158 for nearly four hours and that this is current and in the press, I suggest that everyone continues to point out Wabtec's failings.

2 sets and it looks like the next few won't be as far behind.

 

[43096]

That's because there is very little positive to say. Despite the contract being signed, Wabtec have not delivered. A new development was the quote in the article.

And it's not grinding an axe. This company have rightly been shredded in the press and continue to not deliver. Given the money that goes into the railway and the fact that still only one set has been delivered, excrement is dumped onto the tracks in greater quantity, the passenger has to ensure a two car 158 for nearly four hours and that this is current and in the press, I suggest that everyone continues to point out Wabtec's failings.

2 sets delivered. If you're going to continue with your diatribe at least gets the facts right.

 

[InOban]

From the posts above, it seems that, having completed a 'prototype' set of four coaches, set 1, they have now nearly completed a production batch of 24, so we now have an idea of how long that takes. I would guess that after set 7 there will be a pause and then another six in late spring.

 

[Northhighland]

From the posts above, it seems that, having completed a 'prototype' set of four coaches, set 1, they have now nearly completed a production batch of 24, so we now have an idea of how long that takes. I would guess that after set 7 there will be a pause and then another six in late spring.

it is possible though the next batch could be for another customer?

 

[Bassman]

I have to agree - ideally, the 'classic' sets would never have needed to enter passenger service. I think once we have more refurbished sets though, things may settle down & the travelling public (who have put up with a lot, lately - and I say that as a member of traincrew) will be delighted with them

I hope the public get to appreciate this upgrade in Scottish intercity travel. However sometimes the moaners will have their way and be highlighted in the press. I will not be surprised if the HST are not valued. It is a pity politicians are not up to speed with the complexity of this problem of upgrading our railways.
One thing is for sure, we are now seeing some real intercity trains being used for connecting our cities. Hopefully the service can be a central feature having permanent increased status in the future.

 

[InOban]

it is possible though the next batch could be for another customer?

Have they not been simultaneously refurbishing coaches for XC and GWR? Or are they even more delayed?

 

[gsnedders]

Have they not been simultaneously refurbishing coaches for XC and GWR? Or are they even more delayed?

Yes, they have. Once XC set is in service, if I'm not mistaken. Not heard anything about any more XC/GWR sets, though.

 

[jingsmonty]

That's because there is very little positive to say. Despite the contract being signed, Wabtec have not delivered. A new development was the quote in the article.

And it's not grinding an axe. This company have rightly been shredded in the press and continue to not deliver. Given the money that goes into the railway and the fact that still only one set has been delivered, excrement is dumped onto the tracks in greater quantity, the passenger has to ensure a two car 158 for nearly four hours and that this is current and in the press, I suggest that everyone continues to point out Wabtec's failings.

Passengers regularly travel on a scheduled 2 car 158 for over 4 hours & have done since before the millenium....if you travel on the far North Line. Also, 2 sets have been delivered.

 

[jingsmonty]

I hope the public get to appreciate this upgrade in Scottish intercity travel. However sometimes the moaners will have their way and be highlighted in the press. I will not be surprised if the HST are not valued. It is a pity politicians are not up to speed with the complexity of this problem of upgrading our railways.
One thing is for sure, we are now seeing some real intercity trains being used for connecting our cities. Hopefully the service can be a central feature having permanent increased status in the future.

100% - HSTs are most definetly 'real' Intercity (or Inter7City trains, even ). Even the 'Classics' are a big improvement to travelling on 170. never mind a 158...

 

[jingsmonty]

In the meantime, is it fair to say that the "classics" are doing a reasonable job? (if there are enough crew to run them, which is a big "if" currently obviously, but should improve reasonably soon as crew get trained).

I guess the scenario foreseeable future is going to be that the "classics" will be used, then gradually dropped-out if and when the refurbished sets arrive.

I would assume so - Scotrail will want to phase out the 'Classic' set ASAP. They may be an improvement for the passengers, but the station dwell times are a big downside, as well as the obvious flaw with the toilets...Personally speaking (with my 'Passenger head', as opposed to my 'Driver Head' on), they are really nice to travel in - and that's with the (not ideal) GWR seating configuration too.

Hopefully the traincrew training situation will ease shortly (I know most Inverness & Aberdeen crews are now trained, but think Perth & Waverley may be a bit behind). Not sure about Dundee.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Hopefully the traincrew training situation will ease shortly (I know most Inverness & Aberdeen crews are now trained, but think Perth & Waverley may be a bit behind). Not sure about Dundee.

Aberdeen, ... nope

 

[Geoff DC]

You never hear anyone in Cornwall complaining about a 5+hour journey on a classic HST to London - you must have some really nice trains up in Scotland to complain about GWR HSTs coming your way
We are losing them to you & now we have Commuter Spec SH*tachis to endure on 5+hr runs

 

[marks87]

Class 800s are "commuter spec"?

I'd quite like to hear the reasoning behind that particular viewpoint, but I fear this isn't the thread for it.

 

[Esker-pades]

You never hear anyone in Cornwall complaining about a 5+hour journey on a classic HST to London - you must have some really nice trains up in Scotland to complain about GWR HSTs coming your way
We are losing them to you & now we have Commuter Spec SH*tachis to endure on 5+hr runs

Most people are not complaining about the introduction of HSTs. What we'd like is trains to actually exist, and there not to be mad substitutions which mean that the service that we get now is worse than the one pre-timetable change (I'm talking about single 158s on the Highland Main Line).

 

[BRX]

You never hear anyone in Cornwall complaining about a 5+hour journey on a classic HST to London

That's not quite true - plenty of people complained about the high density refurbs and I complained about the horrible lighting. That said, I'd rather travel on one of them than an IET or the scotrail 158s or 170s.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss updates regarding Scotrail HST introduction.

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, such as unhappiness in general with the service on the relevant routes, please use an existing thread (where one exists) or create a new thread (where there isn't one already).

 

[chuff chuff]

I would assume so - Scotrail will want to phase out the 'Classic' set ASAP. They may be an improvement for the passengers, but the station dwell times are a big downside, as well as the obvious flaw with the toilets...Personally speaking (with my 'Passenger head', as opposed to my 'Driver Head' on), they are really nice to travel in - and that's with the (not ideal) GWR seating configuration too.

Hopefully the traincrew training situation will ease shortly (I know most Inverness & Aberdeen crews are now trained, but think Perth & Waverley may be a bit behind). Not sure about Dundee.

The last Dundee drivers were passed out last may.

 

[bspahh]

At the moment vehicles for conversion can be retrieved from store at Ely.

Eight more coaches are en route from Potters to Wabtec. They are waiting South of Ely right now http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O73701/2019/01/14/advanced

 

[Journeyman]

"When stripping out the carriages for refurbishment, it [Wabtec] identified further work that could be readily and more easily undertaken at this stage, avoiding extended maintenance downtimes and cost once the trains are in passenger service. Additionally, the engineering design and complexity of work has proved more challenging than anticipated by Wabtec.

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ng-kind-of-trains-for-scotrail-woes-1-4855755"

Interesting. Sounds like a slow company making excuses for its awful performance. What extra mods are being done?

It's positive PR spin on the fact that the average Mark 3 has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.

 

[jingsmonty]

You never hear anyone in Cornwall complaining about a 5+hour journey on a classic HST to London - you must have some really nice trains up in Scotland to complain about GWR HSTs coming your way
We are losing them to you & now we have Commuter Spec SH*tachis to endure on 5+hr runs

Exactly - that's why I've always been supportive of the HSTs on Scotland's InterCity network. Basically, they offer a higher quality product for the passenger....even the 'Classic' sets.

 

[jingsmonty]

The last Dundee drivers were passed out last may.

Didn't realise that, must just be Perth & Waverley that are short of HST drivers. As I was saying, most Inverness Drivers passed now - it's frustrating when you have an HST job & a 170 or 158 turns up instead...hopefully this will improve over the next few weeks. We've already found retention to be an issue (although I've been lucky, as I've had 3 runs since the new timetable was introduced).

 

[jingsmonty]

Aberdeen, nearly 20 drivers not started. Significant amount of passed out drivers classic only due to lack of time on the power doors

That is definetly an issue - as far as I'm aware, there isn't a single member of traincrew in Inverness that's had any sort of training on the refurbished set. I wonder if we'll see 'Refurb Set 2' up North soon - or Set 3, if it's on it's way shortly. Not quite sure where it will be stabled, mind you!

 

[43096]

Eight more coaches are en route from Potters to Wabtec. They are waiting South of Ely right now http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O73701/2019/01/14/advanced

Ta! Any vehicle numbers quoted?

 

[absolutelymilk]

Eight more coaches are en route from Potters to Wabtec. They are waiting South of Ely right now http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O73701/2019/01/14/advanced

Just gone past Doncaster for those interested.

 

[Indigo Soup]

For comparison the original delivery schedule called for the first two sets to be delivered within a month, and then for the remainder of the sets to be delivered at an average rate of one per week.

It's entirely possible that the second unit was delayed by efforts to get the classic sets ready in time for the December timetable change and then the effects of the holiday period. If that's the case, we might be able to expect one unit a week from here on, as per the original schedule.