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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. gingertom

    gingertom Member

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  2. 385001

    385001 Member

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    So set 2 is here and set 3 is hopefully on the way.

    How soon could Scotrail get these into passenger service?
     
  3. CJSwan

    CJSwan Member

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    Set 2 is to be based at Perth for staff training for at least the whole of next week.
     
  4. Goldromans

    Goldromans Member

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    If set 3 really is due in the next few days, perhaps Wabtec are finally picking up the pace?

    As to how soon after delivery, I’d assume the sets themselves are ready to go and it’s simply a case of training staff?
     
  5. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    Hopefully this was a case of "release one set, find out what glitches there are, iron out said glitches, learn from the mistakes then roll the rest out", and that there will now be a steady flow northwards from Wabtec.
     
  6. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    I wouldn't say that to quickly as they might hear you and not put the 3rd set into service. No but I would say about 3 weeks before entering traffic, end of the month.
     
  7. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    if they were now able to say get an average of one carriage per day completed on a 7 day working week, when would they complete?
     
  8. nat67

    nat67 Member

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    Is this a hypothetical question or a real one. What would you think is possible with 40 year old coaching stock.
     
  9. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    That would be absurdly optimistic, but assuming that 12 vehicles will have been delivered by January 14th with another 109 to go, then they would be completed on 3rd May 2019. Personally I think that even a quarter of that rate of progress (One set every 16 days, completing late March 2020) is in the realms of fantasy, and Wabtec are also fulfilling orders for another two customers concurrently.

    For comparison the original delivery schedule called for the first two sets to be delivered within a month, and then for the remainder of the sets to be delivered at an average rate of one per week.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2019
  10. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Isn't it likely that all the sets will be delivered with 4 coaches, and the others added later?
     
  11. Goldromans

    Goldromans Member

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    I don't believe so. Since the 4 coach sets are being delivered first, I'm sure by the time the 5 coach sets start coming the issues that have caused the delays will have been resolved.
     
  12. 317 forever

    317 forever Member

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    Great start to the gradual introduction of refurbished 125s to ScotRail. It may take some time before the majority yet alone all of them are refurbished.
     
  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member

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    The plan, as I understand it, is to create the mix of 2+4 and 2+5 sets, with the 2+4 mostly working Aberdeen-Inverness. There is an option to add a coach to each set (i.e. create a mix of 2+5 and 2+6). I havnt heard of any plan to just create a couple 2+6 sets.
     
  14. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    It was in the franchise agreement to form two 2+6 sets, at a later date, after all the 2+4 and 2+5 entered service. I think from 2020 was the plan for the reforming of two sets to 2+6.
     
  15. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Had my first experience of non refurb HST from Glasgow to Inverkeithing . Very spontaneous trip walked in to Queen st and seen HST and took the chance . Nothing bad to say , pretty quiet , seats are not 170 comfortable but lots of airline seating , the guard made an announcement about the droplights that there is a risk of serious injury or death ! HST over dalmeny chord is rare
     
  16. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    Apparently, sets 3 to 7 are not far behind, sets 8 & 9 have just entered Wabtec...looking forward to having some training (and getting a look inside) set 2!
     
  17. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Well that's some good news, for a while it sounded as though we wouldn't see set 3 and onwards for quite some time.
     
  18. Goldromans

    Goldromans Member

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    We just need to hope that the time needed per coach is significantly less now Wabtec have (hopefully) worked out all the kinks! It took them a year to refurbish the first set of coaches, surely this will have been improved on?
     
  19. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    Now, I don't know if anyone's mentioned it before, but things are a bit behind on these refurbished sets. I've sat down and done some analysis on the situation. Basically, I have calculated that if they have produced X sets per Y weeks up until now, then if they carry on at the same rate, it will take (n)Y weeks to produce (n)X sets where (n) is a multiplier of your choice. I have also worked out - and this is the clever bit - that if they speed up, it will take fewer weeks, and if they slow down, it will take more weeks! I wonder if Scotrail realises this? Hopefully they read this thread.
     
  20. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    Our first glimpse of the second set? (Not my video)

     
  21. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    It would help if you proof read before posting as in the forum rules.
     
  22. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    The refurbed units will be excellent for passengers but in no way can anyone say this has been a “great start”.
     
  23. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    "When stripping out the carriages for refurbishment, it [Wabtec] identified further work that could be readily and more easily undertaken at this stage, avoiding extended maintenance downtimes and cost once the trains are in passenger service. Additionally, the engineering design and complexity of work has proved more challenging than anticipated by Wabtec.

    Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ng-kind-of-trains-for-scotrail-woes-1-4855755"

    Interesting. Sounds like a slow company making excuses for its awful performance. What extra mods are being done?
     
  24. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    It looks like the only extra thing that's getting modified is the story.

    The first thing that occurred to me when I read that was the refurbed trains had better be impressively reliable when they start running to justify the current delays if they're simply to avoid maintenance downtime later.

    They could've given themselves the chance to gain a bit of credibility of they'd been more specific. Or maybe they were and Al Dalton forgot to write it down.
     
  25. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    Well, you could have a perfectly reliable set of coaches but if one or both power cars fail...
     
  26. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Bearing in mind they’re 40 years old there could be any type of issue found although the most likely is corrosion. They are steel bodied vehicles that have had a hard life in all weathers and in some very salty environments (Dawlish)
     
  27. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Sounds like you grinding your axe again.

    Same old tedious routine. Nothing positive to say.
     
  28. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    In fairness to Highland37, 'what extra mods' is a perfectly reasonable question from someone who has to cram on to overcrowded 158s on the Highland Main Line on a regular basis.

    A rare public statement from Wabtec on the matter could've been an opportunity to end speculation that delays are based mainly on their incompetence. Instead we get a vague idea that they've been doing extra work to avoid maintenance workload later, but no specifics. A few extra words could've burst the bubble of suspicion.

    I spend a lot of money on Scotrail's intercity services and I lost all confidence in this project several weeks ago. Those same few extra words from Wabtec could've changed my view back again very easily.
     
  29. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    I have to agree - ideally, the 'classic' sets would never have needed to enter passenger service. I think once we have more refurbished sets though, things may settle down & the travelling public (who have put up with a lot, lately - and I say that as a member of traincrew) will be delighted with them
     
  30. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Member

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    To be honest, grinding our axes (although with justification) about Wabtec & the length of time it's taken for the refurbished sets to appear, does no good - what's happened has happened & nobody can change it.

    The recriminations can be left for when the refurbished sets fully enter service - I'm fairly hopeful that more will start appearing on a regular basis now
     

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