ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[kje7812]

It was at Haymarket depot around 18.50 in the siding nearest the tram.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

The refurbished set has left Dundee for parts unknown.

There's an ECS movement which is leaving for Perth as I type. I wonder if that's it.

 

[Stoney1979]

The refurbished HST really does look good - I'm not 100% sure putting debranded unrefurbished slam door HSTs into service is the right thing to do, but I'm guessing Scotrail's hand has been forced by potentially more 170s going off lease?

This was mentioned earlier with a detailed link to another thread (apologies to that contributor, I can't remember who provided it) regarding the various 170s/158s heading off elsewhere, versus the 385s etc coming in - which will release various DMUs that could serve until the HSTs arrive.

The upshot was that SR might get away with it (i.e. not using slam doors), however, it's going to be a close call and in any case SR have apparently applied for a licence to run slam doors until Dec '19 so there appears to be a contingency plan being put in place.

Basically, it appears that it could go either wat re slam doors working from Dec 18.

 

[scotraildriver]

The safety case is in place so it CAN happen if necessary.

 

[jingsmonty]

Is this officially confirmed as going ahead?

Not 100% sure yet, but it's certainly planned. Have heard there are issues with running non CET toilets...

 

[jingsmonty]

I guess that'll be a rare sight, an HST in the bay platforms at Dundee.

The semi-fasts to Glasgow/Edinburgh will still be 170/158-operated, and even when there's a blockade between Dundee and Aberdeen they still tend to use 1 and 4 for (what will become) the "InterCity" services.

Which means the fact a 2+5 won't fit into P3 is almost certainly more academic than the potential issues at Inverness

Sounds right to me - I'm not sure that the issues at Inverness have been fully thought through until recently - I await the plans eith interest....

 

[jingsmonty]

The safety case is in place so it CAN happen if necessary.

That's my understanding too....as I said in my last post, the main issue with 'Classic' HSTs is the lack of CET toilets (& the implications of staff working on the track/sets), as opposed to the doors....

 

[jingsmonty]

This was mentioned earlier with a detailed link to another thread (apologies to that contributor, I can't remember who provided it) regarding the various 170s/158s heading off elsewhere, versus the 385s etc coming in - which will release various DMUs that could serve until the HSTs arrive.

The upshot was that SR might get away with it (i.e. not using slam doors), however, it's going to be a close call and in any case SR have apparently applied for a licence to run slam doors until Dec '19 so there appears to be a contingency plan being put in place.

Basically, it appears that it could go either wat re slam doors working from Dec 18.

I'd like to think that the HSTs in service will be exclusively refurbished sets, but Scotrail may not have any choice but to put unrefurbished sets into passenger traffic, if more DMUs are heading off-lease.

Think we will hear more about this soon....the Dec timetable isn't that far off now.

 

[chuff chuff]

Slam door definitely coming in,not too much detail at the moment.

 

[superkev]

Are the former guards areas in the power cars to be used for parcels, bikes etc. Would seem a useful assert in Scotland.
K

 

[jopsuk]

The confirmed use is reserved bikes on end-to-end journeys.

 

[marks87]

The confirmed use is reserved bikes on end-to-end journeys.

I assume the rationale for that is to avoid increased dwell times, something that isn't an issue for LNER because of the need to close doors.

Other cycle space is going to be available in the coaches, I assume? Any word on whether or not this will be reservable as well?

 

[jopsuk]

Two reservable spaces in a former toilet- all the details are in this thread.

 

[scotraildriver]

I assume the rationale for that is to avoid increased dwell times, something that isn't an issue for LNER because of the need to close doors.

Other cycle space is going to be available in the coaches, I assume? Any word on whether or not this will be reservable as well?

No, its due to the fact that no one is permitted to enter the rear power car whilst the engine is running in case the Inergen Fire system activates. Anyone in there would be suffocated. Access to the leading power car is only permitted if the drivers key is in, as the fire system wont activate with a key in.

 

[superkev]

No, its due to the fact that no one is permitted to enter the rear power car whilst the engine is running in case the Inergen Fire system activates. Anyone in there would be suffocated. Access to the leading power car is only permitted if the drivers key is in, as the fire system wont activate with a key in.

With it being originally for the guard lm surprised it's not sealed from the engine compartment with a suitable door like the drivers cab.
K

 

[scotraildriver]

The Inergen system wasn't fitted when the guards van was in use - it was installed at the same time as the MTU engines. The cab isn't sealed either hence why the fire system won't activate with a key in - to protect the driver. If a fire occurs in the leading power car the driver must remove their key leave the cab and pull the fire handle in the outside of the cab. The only sealed door is the one between the power car and coaches, which is a new, high security door with a unique key and lock and can only be accessed by drivers.

 

[43096]

The Inergen system wasn't fitted when the guards van was in use - it was installed at the same time as the MTU engines. The cab isn't sealed either hence why the fire system won't activate with a key in - to protect the driver. If a fire occurs in the leading power car the driver must remove their key leave the cab and pull the fire handle in the outside of the cab. The only sealed door is the one between the power car and coaches, which is a new, high security door with a unique key and lock and can only be accessed by drivers.

Not quite. Inergen was installed before the MTU work - 2002/3 from memory at around the same time as TPWS. It replaced the original Halon system that used ozone depleting chemicals, whose use was banned. The Inergen system mods also extended coverage by the fire system to the clean air compartment: previously the fire system had only covered the engine room.

 

[Northhighland]

I'd like to think that the HSTs in service will be exclusively refurbished sets, but Scotrail may not have any choice but to put unrefurbished sets into passenger traffic, if more DMUs are heading off-lease.

Think we will hear more about this soon....the Dec timetable isn't that far off now.

Ideally it would be all refurbed sets. However it doesn't look like that will be possible, if the refurb programme continues to slip the extra capacity will be needed and probably not much choice. It is a risk, but think people will still be happy with this over the current overcrowding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ideally it would be all refurbed sets. However it doesn't look like that will be possible, if the refurb programme continues to slip the extra capacity will be needed and probably not much choice. It is a risk, but think people will still be happy with this over the current overcrowding.

People are speaking of the GWR interior as if it's awful - it's really not - it is quite high-density, but the seats are decent and the colour scheme not offensive, and bits aren't falling off all over the place. The main issue is the lighting, but that doesn't make as much difference during the day. It's without a doubt preferable to standing and I can't see how anyone could think otherwise.

 

[scotraildriver]

Not much wrong with the interiors on the training trains. The first class in particular is a massive step up from a 170 .

 

[Stoney1979]

Slam door definitely coming in,not too much detail at the moment.

Very interesting. Can't wait to see how SR spin this one.

Some sections of the media are going to have a field day with this for various reasons already mentioned above. However, hopefully the reality will overcome the inevitable initial press negativity.

 

[InOban]

It's not SRs fault that Wabtec haven't delivered. It would help if they would give some idea of when more sets will be coming.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Yesterday I noticed a pair of Inter7City branded HST power cars coupled back to back at Ely where the ex FGW HST's are stored - anyone any idea why?

 

[gsnedders]

Yesterday I noticed a pair of Inter7City branded HST power cars coupled back to back at Ely where the ex FGW HST's are stored - anyone any idea why?

I have no actual idea, but could it just be the locos are done but the coaching stock isn't, and they need stored somewhere by the ROSCO until the set is complete and able to be delivered to their customer?

 

[twpsaesneg]

I have no actual idea, but could it just be the locos are done but the coaching stock isn't, and they need stored somewhere by the ROSCO until the set is complete and able to be delivered to their customer?

Ouch! Risky there then as they're in the "insecure" bit, a few of the 365's were sprayed up there if I recall correctly during their stay. Hopefully the same doesn't befall Scotrail's nice shiny paintwork!

 

[berwicksfinest]

Ouch! Risky there then as they're in the "insecure" bit, a few of the 365's were sprayed up there if I recall correctly during their stay. Hopefully the same doesn't befall Scotrail's nice shiny paintwork!

oh no , there's a nice shiny compound around that sidings now

 

[Journeyman]

People are speaking of the GWR interior as if it's awful - it's really not - it is quite high-density, but the seats are decent and the colour scheme not offensive, and bits aren't falling off all over the place. The main issue is the lighting, but that doesn't make as much difference during the day. It's without a doubt preferable to standing and I can't see how anyone could think otherwise.

Oh, believe me, it really is awful.

 

[CC 72100]

Oh, believe me, it really is awful.

...but then it would be in your view for the sole reason of it being a Mark 3 that you vehemently dislike.

Back in the real world, it's perfectly fine. You'd be hard pressed to find one in 'bad' condition and is certainly in better nick than other stock has been when it had 6 months left if that.

And passengers didn't seem to care as much about the high seat backs or lights as much as those on Rail Forums UK would have you believe...

 

[waverley47]

Someone up thread mentioned the possibility of SR powerccar being used on LNER runs and vice versa. Just managed to get a photo of one currently pushing the 1E25 Aberdeen - Kings Cross (cancelled between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, starting from EDB at 1730)

Didn't manage any photos or to see what was on the other end as I was running for a different platform

 

[Northhighland]

Oh, believe me, it really is awful.

Believe me a rammed Class 170 overflowing with luggage bikes and people standing is much worse.