ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Northhighland]

I'd certainly hope this was the case - as far as I'm aware, there has been little/no staff training being completed, with regards to door operation (b both refurbished & classic sets). Also, the rumblings from the RMT re: the classic sets without CET toilets is still in the background (and I don't blame the RMT for taking this stance either).

Seems to be a never ending saga. I just want a train that has a seat and will be on time. Seems to be in the too difficult pile for Scotrail.

 

[chuff chuff]

When was the refurbished set last out,didn't run Saturday don't think it's gonna make an appearance today either.

 

[JModulo]

When was the refurbished set last out,didn't run Saturday don't think it's gonna make an appearance today either.

Last Thursday. Is / was undergoing a B exam.

 

[_toommm_]

When was the refurbished set last out,didn't run Saturday don't think it's gonna make an appearance today either.

1B43 ran as 170393 last night

 

[jingsmonty]

Seems to be a never ending saga. I just want a train that has a seat and will be on time. Seems to be in the too difficult pile for Scotrail.

Think the 'difficult pile' that ends up on the track' is the issue....Quite right too, we badly need the refurbished sets ASAP

 

[scotraildriver]

Guard training is underway at Queen St and Edinburgh although it is being hampered by a lack of TGS coaches. I believe 2 have arrived at Glasgow works and the Eastfield sets will be reformed this week. The 2 training trains were undergoing heavy cleaning yesterday and the central locking 're activated and tested.

 

[Goldromans]

Guard training is underway at Queen St and Edinburgh although it is being hampered by a lack of TGS coaches. I believe 2 have arrived at Glasgow works and the Eastfield sets will be reformed this week. The 2 training trains were undergoing heavy cleaning yesterday and the central locking 're activated and tested.

Do you know if they will be phased into service, or if they all start carrying passengers on the first day of the new timetable?

 

[jingsmonty]

Guard training is underway at Queen St and Edinburgh although it is being hampered by a lack of TGS coaches. I believe 2 have arrived at Glasgow works and the Eastfield sets will be reformed this week. The 2 training trains were undergoing heavy cleaning yesterday and the central locking 're activated and tested.

Interesting to hear - haven't heard anything about guard training in Aberdeen or Inverness yet though..

 

[jingsmonty]

Do you know if they will be phased into service, or if they all start carrying passengers on the first day of the new timetable?

I know Inverness have a small number of HST diagrams as of the new timetable, but I can't see them being phased in earlier (up here at least - the guard training hasn't started yet, as far as I'm aware).

 

[Deltic1961]

From today's appearance of Alex Hynes at Holyrood:

Alex Hynes of @ScotRail describes train toilets flushing directly on to the line as operating in "classic mode". Says all should be refurbished by the end of next year

 

[Girner]

From today's appearance of Alex Hynes at Holyrood:

Alex Hynes of @ScotRail describes train toilets flushing directly on to the line as operating in "classic mode". Says all should be refurbished by the end of next year

Classic Mode! Management BS speak at its finest. Does that mean track workers could look forward to the low hanging fruit of Hepititis C?

 

[fgwrich]

ScotRail overhauled and liveried 43150 & 164 are currently working this mornings Brush Loughborough to Ely Papworth move. There also according to Realtime Trains, looks like a move coming up tomorrow from Ely to Doncaster Wabtec, so there could be a few more HST trailers coming up for overhaul.

 

[David M]

Does that mean track workers could look forward to the low hanging fruit of Hepititis C?

So LNER and Cross Country yuck, currently deposited on the same track between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, is fine but a Scotrail train doing the same, on a strictly temporary basis, is not?
Don't get me wrong, it's a poor practice but at least Scotrail have made an effort to eradicate flushing onto the tracks (and had succeeded until next month's GWR sets being used) when others have not.
How many hundreds of trains are running about down south with no retention tanks? Where's the thread complaining about them? Is Hepatitis C only a Scotrail thing?

 

[InOban]

I suppose that if they are bringing more coaches into the works, it suggests that some might be ready to leave...

 

[jingsmonty]

So LNER and Cross Country yuck, currently deposited on the same track between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, is fine but a Scotrail train doing the same, on a strictly temporary basis, is not?
Don't get me wrong, it's a poor practice but at least Scotrail have made an effort to eradicate flushing onto the tracks (and had succeeded until next month's GWR sets being used) when others have not.
How many hundreds of trains are running about down south with no retention tanks? Where's the thread complaining about them? Is Hepatitis C only a Scotrail thing?

The issue is that Scotrail staff don't work on the LNER & Cross Country sets (apart from very basic overnight checks on the Highland Chieftain in Inverness)....also a LOT more Scotrail trains run between Aberdeen & Edinburgh than LNER/Cross Country ones. It's a very fair point that you make, though & if Alex Hynes is giving a date of next year (I think this is a legal requirement anyway) for the Classic sets to be gone, it's probably the only way forward. It should be a definite cut off date, rather than a 'should be' date, regardless of whether it's a legal requirement or not...

 

[scotraildriver]

Its not good at all but its also difficult to see any alternative. This was never the plan, all 27 refurbished sets should be in service now - we've got 1! More units go off lease in December and that apparently cannot be stopped, leaving what should have been training trains going into front line service. If they dont, there will be mass cancellations. If anyone has a viable alternative that can be turned around in 4 weeks let Scotrail know.

 

[jingsmonty]

Its not good at all but its also difficult to see any alternative. This was never the plan, all 27 refurbished sets should be in service now - we've got 1! More units go off lease in December and that apparently cannot be stopped, leaving what should have been training trains going into front line service. If they dont, there will be mass cancellations. If anyone has a viable alternative that can be turned around in 4 weeks let Scotrail know.

Exactly. 100% exactly. Scotrail are in between a rock & a hard place here. No-one wants to see the 'classic' sets in service, but there is NO OTHER QUICK OPTION out there. And before someone suggests loco-hauled replacements (such as off-lease Mk4s), the grand total of Drivers that can currently work LHCS is (I think), currently at a grand total of Zero.

 

[Class37.4]

Exactly. 100% exactly. Scotrail are in between a rock & a hard place here. No-one wants to see the 'classic' sets in service, but there is NO OTHER QUICK OPTION out there. And before someone suggests loco-hauled replacements (such as off-lease Mk4s), the grand total of Drivers that can currently work LHCS is (I think), currently at a grand total of Zero.

Well there are no off Lease Mk4's and is there any spare Loco Hauled stock with retention tanks I doubt it?

 

[jingsmonty]

Well there are no off Lease Mk4's and is there any spare Loco Hauled stock with retention tanks I doubt it?

Exactly, couldn't agree with you more. That's the point I was trying to make.

I only gave Mk4s as an example, as they are the only current coaches with CET tanks & they were a favourite of the tiresome 'HST bad' debate going on here for ages! (& nobody mention new Mk5a's either, please - that argument has been done to death too....).

 

[Bodiddly]

So LNER and Cross Country yuck, currently deposited on the same track between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, is fine but a Scotrail train doing the same, on a strictly temporary basis, is not?
Don't get me wrong, it's a poor practice but at least Scotrail have made an effort to eradicate flushing onto the tracks (and had succeeded until next month's GWR sets being used) when others have not.
How many hundreds of trains are running about down south with no retention tanks? Where's the thread complaining about them? Is Hepatitis C only a Scotrail thing?

There have been numerous threads over the years about this subject, a quick search would have found them. Are you saying it's ok for Scotrail maintainers and track workers to now be showered in human waste because staff in other parts of the Country endure it? Scotrail have went backwards with this decision. This is not just track workers, this is anyone who works on them be that maintainers, shunters, fuellers or the guys who clean the litter off the tracks at stations who will now have the added incentive of avoiding a jobby or two when carrying out their work. It's a disgusting practise that quite rightly, is being phased out but because of the backlog in refurbishmants it's being phased in. I'm very dissapointed in both Scotrail and the Scottish Government in condoning this.

 

[mde]

And before someone suggests loco-hauled replacements (such as off-lease Mk4s), the grand total of Drivers that can currently work LHCS is (I think), currently at a grand total of Zero.

Who is driving the 68s on the Fife Circle... are DRS supplying the drivers?

Of course, even with suitable drivers, goodness knows where they would find off lease coaching stock that had CETs…

 

[jingsmonty]

Who is driving the 68s on the Fife Circle... are DRS supplying the drivers?

Of course, even with suitable drivers, goodness knows where they would find off lease coaching stock that had CETs…

Yes, DRS Drivers work the Fife Circle LHCS trains, I believe.

 

[43096]

ScotRail overhauled and liveried 43150 & 164 are currently working this mornings Brush Loughborough to Ely Papworth move. There also according to Realtime Trains, looks like a move coming up tomorrow from Ely to Doncaster Wabtec, so there could be a few more HST trailers coming up for overhaul.

43021/145 went down to Brush yesterday (from Inverness!) and 43031/152 are at Doncaster - which also suggest there is another set due out shortly.

 

[jingsmonty]

There have been numerous threads over the years about this subject, a quick search would have found them. Are you saying it's ok for Scotrail maintainers and track workers to now be showered in human waste because staff in other parts of the Country endure it? Scotrail have went backwards with this decision. This is not just track workers, this is anyone who works on them be that maintainers, shunters, fuellers or the guys who clean the litter off the tracks at stations who will now have the added incentive of avoiding a jobby or two when carrying out their work. It's a disgusting practise that quite rightly, is being phased out but because of the backlog in refurbishmants it's being phased in. I'm very dissapointed in both Scotrail and the Scottish Government in condoning this.

It IS dissapointing that this will be happening & I fully appreciate the position the RMT are taking over it. It's a disgusting practise which needs to be consigned to the history books.

BUT....as others have said, what's the alternative? Only alternative is mass cancellation of services, as there are more Class 170s heading off-lease next month. If there was a viable alternative to 'Classic' sets, I'd love to hear it!

 

[jingsmonty]

43021/145 went down to Brush yesterday (from Inverness!) and 43031/152 are at Doncaster - which also suggest there is another set due out shortly.

Ah, that explains why 43021/145 were moved outside the TMD at Inverness, then - I though a move may be on!

 

[Bodiddly]

It IS dissapointing that this will be happening & I fully appreciate the position the RMT are taking over it. It's a disgusting practise which needs to be consigned to the history books.

BUT....as others have said, what's the alternative? Only alternative is mass cancellation of services, as there are more Class 170s heading off-lease next month. If there was a viable alternative to 'Classic' sets, I'd love to hear it!

It kind of makes our policy of 'If it isn't safe, don't do it', irrelevant.

 

[Journeyman]

So LNER and Cross Country yuck, currently deposited on the same track between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, is fine but a Scotrail train doing the same, on a strictly temporary basis, is not?

The thing is, ScotRail have previously eliminated the practice, and now want to bring it back in, whereas the others haven't got there yet, and run very few trains compared to ScotRail anyway. I rarely agree with the RMT, but they do have a point. There's a group of staff who no longer have to (literally) put up with s*** being told they have to do so once again, I think that's a fairly legitimate reason to be aggrieved.

 

[jingsmonty]

The thing is, ScotRail have previously eliminated the practice, and now want to bring it back in, whereas the others haven't got there yet, and run very few trains compared to ScotRail anyway. I rarely agree with the RMT, but they do have a point. There's a group of staff who no longer have to (literally) put up with s*** being told they have to do so once again, I think that's a fairly legitimate reason to be aggrieved.

As a member of staff myself, I agree entirely with your point. However, it's not exactly a case of Scotrail wanting to reintroduce tge practise, it's more a case of temporarily being forced into it...far from ideal, I know, but as I said - what's the alternative solution?

 

[Journeyman]

As a member of staff myself, I agree entirely with your point. However, it's not exactly a case of Scotrail wanting to reintroduce tge practise, it's more a case of temporarily being forced into it...far from ideal, I know, but as I said - what's the alternative solution?

Admittedly I can't think of anything either. ScotRail have a very, very serious problem on their hands.

 

[jingsmonty]

Admittedly I can't think of anything either. ScotRail have a very, very serious problem on their hands.

It's just a pity that the 170s that are heading to Northern couldn't have been retained until May, at least. Can't think of any other Diesel based solution.

Personally, I think a committment has to be made by Scotrail to state a firm date for the 'classic' sets to be gone by....& stick to it.

RMT have a very fair point, but I think some sort of a compromise has to be reached here....I did read something about 'GPS toilets', but can't see that being a practical solution.