Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[hexagon789]

Yup.

I know some people don't think it's an important issue but for me it really ruins the ambience. The whole point of the HSTs was to provide an "intercity" style relaxing ambience on the longer routes. But the abattoir lighting makes the coaches feel harsh and cold, especially at night or on a gloomy day. Changing from an LNER IET to a Scotrail HST at Edinburgh on a long day's journey to the north it's especially striking; it's like you've crossed the iron curtain or something. It's such a shame because lots of other things are good about the trains (overall I'm a fan) and it seems like changing a few light fittings shouldn't be so hard. It must be that there's no-one senior in Scotrail who actually understands it matters.

Some of the crews know about the 'half' setting and use it, but most don't - perhaps they don't know of it.

They’ve been kicking out HSTs on a few Aberdeen-Inverurie locals too recently, the 12:26 from Aberdeen has been an HST several times over the last couple of weeks.

If another set is available, it's a decent upgrade!

 

[lachlan]

They’ve been kicking out HSTs on a few Aberdeen-Inverurie locals too recently, the 12:26 from Aberdeen has been an HST several times over the last couple of weeks.

Interesting - in my experience the local trains (used to be Aberdeen-Inverurie) were mostly empty and that was a 2-car 158!

 

[Clansman]

Interesting - in my experience the local trains (used to be Aberdeen-Inverurie) were mostly empty and that was a 2-car 158!

Try the 06:53 Perth to Glasgow Queen Street every weekday morning. It's booked a HST and calls all stops!

Absolute overkill.

 

[The Puddock]

Try the 06:53 Perth to Glasgow Queen Street every weekday morning. It's booked a HST and calls all stops!

Absolute overkill.

That used to be my train to work years ago, at that time it was a 5 car (158+170) and it would be full and standing by Larbert and would regularly leave people on the platform at Lenzie and Bishopbriggs. I take it it has become much less popular since Covid?

 

[hexagon789]

Try the 06:53 Perth to Glasgow Queen Street every weekday morning. It's booked a HST and calls all stops!

Absolute overkill.

It needs to get to Glasgow somehow to take up its Aberdeen working, surely its better in service than ECS?

That used to be my train to work years ago, at that time it was a 5 car (158+170) and it would be full and standing by Larbert and would regularly leave people on the platform at Lenzie and Bishopbriggs. I take it it has become much less popular since Covid?

Well, it omits Larbert now for one...

 

[Clansman]

It needs to get to Glasgow somehow to take up its Aberdeen working, surely its better in service than ECS?

I agree completely. My comment was more about the HSTs working such a service rather than the rationale for it in the first place. Changed times from their original purpose as built.

 

[hexagon789]

I agree completely. My comment was more about the HSTs working such a service rather than the rationale for it in the first place. Changed times from their original purpose as built.

Well, I appreciate the southbound from Perth to Glasgow isn't the best working, but at least it goes on to Aberdeens and not Dundees.

It's a difficult one to reconcile getting off depot to wherever needed for working services.

There are a number of excessive ECS workings as part of the HST diagrams, with sets arriving variously at Glasgow Queen Street, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen - shunting to depot, then returning later. In some cases its 3 hours or more before they return, not very efficient.

At least 1T06 is a less wasteful operation.

Trouble is, without any timetable recasts, I don't see the diagrams changing much.

They are pretty much unchanged since Fit for the Future came in and at least that did put HSTs on some busier services.

For instance, the 0707 Glasgow to Inverness was HST pre-May 22, while what is usually the busiest working, the 1007 was booked 170. That is now the other way round, and the 1007 is probably a fair candidate for a five-car in the summer.

There was talk of a slight recast of the HML at least in December 2024, but that was last discussed very early last year and I don't know if that is still to be the case.

 

[BRX]

There's an annoyingly large gap between HST services, heading south from Inverness in the mornings. That would seem like something that would be good to fill, in time for summer traffic.

By the way, is there any word of the mini buffets opening, ever?

 

[hexagon789]

There's an annoyingly large gap between HST services, heading south from Inverness in the mornings. That would seem like something that would be good to fill, in time for summer traffic.

One of the diagrams could in theory, that which includes 1B24, 1H13, 1T90, 1L59, the other would be more a case of whether an HST is justified on Edinburgh to Dundee/Perth stoppers, as that's what the unit(s) off 1B26 work after arriving at Edinburgh. That of course assumes no alterations to the services within each diagram, but that adds the question of how readily they can be altered.

May 2022 shuffled HSTs around the diagrams a little bit without really changing the services within each diagram. 1H05 and 1H57 were HST, now both 170. Both did, and still do, go on to form Aberdeens after arriving at Inverness from Glasgow for example.

In addition, ScotRail is already a bit tight on DMUs, and May 2025 requires two additional HST diagrams to be created (i.e. 17) to free up sufficient DMUs just for requirements in Fife next year, let alone anything else.

By the way, is there any word of the mini buffets opening, ever?

The last official word I had on that, which I believe I did post in this thread, was that it was subject to them recruiting more hospitality staff.

I.e. more trolleys first, then consideration of the buffets.

 

[rangersac]

Have they sorted out the vestibule doors yet? Last trip I was on they were locked open which made it rather brisk, noisy, and fragrant from the brake fumes

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There's an annoyingly large gap between HST services, heading south from Inverness in the mornings. That would seem like something that would be good to fill, in time for summer traffic.

Wasn’t the HST specifically taken off the 10.50 Inverness to Edinburgh to increase capacity as the booked 5 car DMU has a higher seating capacity than a 5 car HST - the HST just being too small.

 

[hexagon789]

Wasn’t the HST specifically taken off the 10.50 Inverness to Edinburgh to increase capacity as the booked 5 car DMU has a higher seating capacity than a 5 car HST - the HST just being too small.

No, that was previously just a 170 working.

 

[43183]

Yup.

I know some people don't think it's an important issue but for me it really ruins the ambience. The whole point of the HSTs was to provide an "intercity" style relaxing ambience on the longer routes. But the abattoir lighting makes the coaches feel harsh and cold, especially at night or on a gloomy day. Changing from an LNER IET to a Scotrail HST at Edinburgh on a long day's journey to the north it's especially striking; it's like you've crossed the iron curtain or something. It's such a shame because lots of other things are good about the trains (overall I'm a fan) and it seems like changing a few light fittings shouldn't be so hard. It must be that there's no-one senior in Scotrail who actually understands it matters.

Is it more the light levels (ie whether the half light switch is operated) or the light colour temperature? I never noticed the difference until I moved house and the maniacs before me had put cold white bulbs in the master bedroom.

 

[The Puddock]

It’s very obvious if you see a ScotRail HST set in the dark that the standard class coaches have cool white colour temperature lights while the first class coach has warm white - it makes the first class coach immediately obvious at a distance. There must have been a conscious decision to fit different colour temperatur lamp. I agree it really does make a significant difference to the ambience of the coach at night.

 

[BRX]

Is it more the light levels (ie whether the half light switch is operated) or the light colour temperature? I never noticed the difference until I moved house and the maniacs before me had put cold white bulbs in the master bedroom.

It's both, but it's the colour temperature that's most offensive.

The coaches can be switched between full/half lighting as @hexagon789 says above. They often seem to be left on full (I've wondered what would happen if I flipped the switch myself) but even on half, the light is still fairly horrible.

It’s very obvious if you see a ScotRail HST set in the dark that the standard class coaches have cool white colour temperature lights while the first class coach has warm white - it makes the first class coach immediately obvious at a distance. There must have been a conscious decision to fit different colour temperatur lamp. I agree it really does make a significant difference to the ambience of the coach at night.

You can also see the difference between some of the refurbed vestibule areas vs. the seating areas. I think I took this photo from next to the area with the accessible toilet, which seems to have been fitted with more sensible lighting than that retained in the seating area. You can see here the stark difference in colour temperature, between the area near the camera, and the area beyond, by looking at the colour the white wall panels appear.



(By the way, is it the 1st class coaches that have different lighting, or is it the extra carriages they've added to make 5-car rakes?)

 

[The Puddock]

(By the way, is it the 1st class coaches that have different lighting, or is it the extra carriages they've added to make 5-car rakes?)

The additional ‘coach E’ 5 standard class vehicles have the same clinical cool white lighting as the rest of the standard coaches. The TGFB coaches have the warm white lights.

 

[fgwrich]

The additional ‘coach E’ 5 standard class vehicles have the same clinical cool white lighting as the rest of the standard coaches. The TGFB coaches have the warm white lights.

That’ll be as FGW changed the lighting to warmer LED tubes in the GWR TF / TRBF refurbishmens. The odd standard class vehicle that had them too will have been the 425XX or 46XXX vehicles converted from former Trailer Firsts.

 

[D1537]

ScotRail are making an effort to get long term stopped/damaged power cars back into service. 43129 and 43150 are off to Brodie's in Kilmarnock for tree damage repairs after their recent incidents. In addition, long term stopped 43128/169 are being moved to UKRL in Loughborough for reinstatement work. 43305/367 have moved to Loughborough from Ely to provide components for them.

I passed 43128 heading south on the A1M around Thirsk at around 9am this morning.

 

[Scotrail12]

Going to Aberdeen on the 1041 today...or was because yet another instance of the HST being swapped out for a crappy 170. Going to try via Edinburgh instead. It's really annoying that these HSTs are so unreliable.

 

[hexagon789]

Going to Aberdeen on the 1041 today...or was because yet another instance of the HST being swapped out for a crappy 170. Going to try via Edinburgh instead. It's really annoying that these HSTs are so unreliable.

Not reliability, a track defect is causing delays near Portlethen, the set off Aberdeen was swapped as a result.

There are presently 14 sets in traffic.

Most subs today are actually 158 vice 170.

 

[Davester50]

Going to Aberdeen on the 1041 today...or was because yet another instance of the HST being swapped out for a crappy 170. Going to try via Edinburgh instead. It's really annoying that these HSTs are so unreliable.

I agree, but careful. I had a post removed for being off topic when complaining about 2 carriage trains being still on services between 5 of the Inter7City cities.
It's far from OT.
It's very much the topic that after 4-5 years that the promises made haven't been delivered, and 2 carriage suburban trains are packed while mothballed HSTs are being paid for doing nothing other than gather cobwebs and rust.

 

[Railperf]

I agree, but careful. I had a post removed for being off topic when complaining about 2 carriage trains being still on services between 5 of the Inter7City cities.
It's far from OT.
It's very much the topic that after 4-5 years that the promises made haven't been delivered, and 2 carriage suburban trains are packed while mothballed HSTs are being paid for doing nothing other than gather cobwebs and rust.

How many mothballed HST's are we referring to. The two 5-car takes at Slateford are the only ones I am aware of. And it has been mentioned upthread that these are due in service by December. Are there any more mothballed rakes lying around?

 

[Davester50]

How many mothballed HST's are we referring to. The two 5-car takes at Slateford are the only ones I am aware of. And it has been mentioned upthread that these are due in service by December. Are there any more mothballed rakes lying around?

The ones at Doncaster as well, which as I believe from this post, are still under the Section 54 agreement through to 2030. Haven't counted the ones at Slateford, been a while since I've had to pass on the way to Wester Hailes.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Happened on Saturday as well, HST vice 158 on Elgin locals.

No uplift in June I understand, but December.

Need to wait for the December timetable to be available to see if they've made any accelerations; there aren't any in June beyond those produced by stopping pattern alterations.

June sees 16 HST diagrams.

 

[Dan G]

The ones at Doncaster as well, which as I believe from this post, are still under the Section 54 agreement through to 2030. Haven't counted the ones at Slateford, been a while since I've had to pass on the way to Wester Hailes.

How many ScotRail rakes are at Doncaster?

 

[John Bishop]

How many ScotRail rakes are at Doncaster?

3 I believe.

 

[hexagon789]

June sees 16 HST diagrams.

Not anymore AFAIUI.

And it has been mentioned upthread that these are due in service by December.

Refreshed first, then eventually into traffic. Doubt it'll be December though.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Not anymore AFAIUI.


Refreshed first, then eventually into traffic. Doubt it'll be December though.

Has that changed since the TT change brief I was sent a week ago?

 

[hexagon789]

Has that changed since the TT change brief I was sent a week ago?

My contact said it would be still 15 in June, despite 16 being planned for earlier.

If there is still a 16th, do you know which services?

(RTT doesn't appear to show any additional HST workings either.)

 

[Dfatcontroller]

My contact said it would be still 15 in June, despite 16 being planned for earlier.

If there is still a 16th, do you know which services?

(RTT doesn't appear to show any additional HST workings either.)

I'm not prepared to share the finer details. Other than 16 diagrams are being planned for by Train Planning.