ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Fishplate84]

This dispute just shows why despite all the We'd love to renationalise but we can't chat from the Scottish Government was hollow.
They are quite happy to offshore labour disputes to a third party, Abellio in this case.
Will be interesting if this drags on until TS are in full (visible) control, and what happens then.

I think that's the case for all the rail industry. Private operators have been a great shield for Dft/Scottish Government to have someone else do their bidding and take all the flack.
In the world of GBR and whatever form it takes in Scotland where franchises become more directly specified management contracts and concessions I very much doubt the operators will be keen to provide this shield and take on any risk for the low levels of margin return being talked about (1.5% - 2%).

i can see the risks of any investment and any staffing and union negotiation being passed back to DfT/Scottish Government to negotiate and deal with directly. Private operating groups will understandably be arguing that lower return = greater certainty, lower risk and complexity. A tiny margin concession doesn't buy much more than running the basic operational service. Anything difficult, complicated or driving through change outside normal operational service delivery isn't worth their while getting involved with. I wouldn't be surprised if owning groups tell DfT/Scottish Government to go whistle on the expectation private operators will continue to lead in these areas.
Having said that, i could equally see Government realising they want control but don't want to deal with the messy contentious stuff which directly exposes the Minister either, and operator margins for concessions drifting north to more commercially attractive levels where the shield can again be provided.

Your point above is absolutely correct. To be in control means being accountable, something politicians struggle to do when the headlines are negative and they have to stand up and argue the case for unpopular policies to the voting public. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Davester50]

Your point above is absolutely correct. To be in control means being accountable, something politicians struggle to do when the headlines are negative and they have to stand up and argue the case for unpopular policies to the voting public. Interesting times ahead.

Thanks.
All populist parties abhor dishing out bad news.
The current transport situation in Scotland across the rail dispute, and the impact to road building with the Scottish Greens will be very interesting.
The current Ferry farrago? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

 

[Cardiff123]

I think that's the case for all the rail industry. Private operators have been a great shield for Dft/Scottish Government to have someone else do their bidding and take all the flack.
In the world of GBR and whatever form it takes in Scotland where franchises become more directly specified management contracts and concessions I very much doubt the operators will be keen to provide this shield and take on any risk for the low levels of margin return being talked about (1.5% - 2%).

i can see the risks of any investment and any staffing and union negotiation being passed back to DfT/Scottish Government to negotiate and deal with directly. Private operating groups will understandably be arguing that lower return = greater certainty, lower risk and complexity. A tiny margin concession doesn't buy much more than running the basic operational service. Anything difficult, complicated or driving through change outside normal operational service delivery isn't worth their while getting involved with. I wouldn't be surprised if owning groups tell DfT/Scottish Government to go whistle on the expectation private operators will continue to lead in these areas.
Having said that, i could equally see Government realising they want control but don't want to deal with the messy contentious stuff which directly exposes the Minister either, and operator margins for concessions drifting north to more commercially attractive levels where the shield can again be provided.

Your point above is absolutely correct. To be in control means being accountable, something politicians struggle to do when the headlines are negative and they have to stand up and argue the case for unpopular policies to the voting public. Interesting times ahead.

You're assuming a lot in this post, including that the model for GBR in England will be adopted in Scotland. I watched the Transport Select Committee with Grant Shapps after GBR was announced, and the SNP MP on the committee made a point of pressing Shapps on the point that the devolved governments in Scotland and Wales will still be allowed to run the rail networks in Scotland and Wales as they want to. Shapps in reply said words to the effect of "of course the Scottish government will be allowed to continue to run Scottish rail services as they see fit, including running services under the Operator of Last Resort if they want to (e.g. nationalisation)."
Therefore, the Scottish government most likely will be allowed to keep ScotRail as a nationalised operator if they choose to.

 

[the sniper]

I think that's the case for all the rail industry. Private operators have been a great shield for Dft/Scottish Government to have someone else do their bidding and take all the flack.
In the world of GBR and whatever form it takes in Scotland where franchises become more directly specified management contracts and concessions I very much doubt the operators will be keen to provide this shield and take on any risk for the low levels of margin return being talked about (1.5% - 2%).

Isn't that the main reason for keeping private operators in GBR...?

That and keeping the staff divided.

 

[Carlisle]

That and keeping the staff divided.

How does that correlate with staff who’ve stated on here it’s easier to organise TOC specific industrial action over particular issues, than it would be attempting it nationally?

 

[Fishplate84]

You're assuming a lot in this post, including that the model for GBR in England will be adopted in Scotland. I watched the Transport Select Committee with Grant Shapps after GBR was announced, and the SNP MP on the committee made a point of pressing Shapps on the point that the devolved governments in Scotland and Wales will still be allowed to run the rail networks in Scotland and Wales as they want to. Shapps in reply said words to the effect of "of course the Scottish government will be allowed to continue to run Scottish rail services as they see fit, including running services under the Operator of Last Resort if they want to (e.g. nationalisation)."
Therefore, the Scottish government most likely will be allowed to keep ScotRail as a nationalised operator if they choose to.

Yes, a lot of supposition in there. But one critical thing is whatever happens, I've seen no sign of DfT rolling back or changing in any fundamental way the Railway Act 1993 as amended to deliver GBR. In fact I've heard it said DfT are desperately trying to not open that can of worms while rearranging the deckchairs. The Act sets out what powers the devolved nations have and to take one example, I understand they are only have (had) franchising powers because the DfT has (had) franchising powers. The devolved nations don't have the unilateral right to go off and do their own thing by law. So, if franchising goes because DfT decide it goes, it goes for all nations (DfT don't have it, so neither will the devolved nations).
The new model is I think still quite unclear despite the revolutionary 'jam for all' positioning and spin from the Shapp's announcement. So much to work through.
I'm amused that everyone is seeing it as a moment to re-boot, re-think and an opportunity to invest and do lots of things that haven't been possible before. Reduced ticket prices, simplified industry ticketing systems and processes, greater devolution, increased network investment, new stations, much stronger customer focus and experience that clearly is being interpreted as better technology and more spacious and comfortable trains.
I can't see what will change so radically that makes some things possible going forward that weren't possible before. Especially when there's a very clear message of reducing the cost of the railway shimmering just below the surface. That can only come from cutting people and services as the numbers involved are impossible to get from everyday efficiencies that everyone has been chipping away at for years.

You may be right, Scottish Government may well still have the ability and wish to be OLR or run things as a nationalised operator. I really question how attractive that actually is to ScotGov and Ministers, especially if it means taking some tough decisions on tacking union demands head on or cutting services. ScotGov have an imperious track record of promising gold for all, fence sitting, indecision and pointing fingers at all around them when things aren't going well even where every link in the chain is owned or directly managed by themselves.

 

[the sniper]

How does that correlate with staff who’ve stated on here it’s easier to organise TOC specific industrial action over particular issues than it would be attempting it nationally?

While true, many of the major issues that are to arise under GBR won't be TOC specific, particular issues. We'll have to see how the pension reform is dealt with in particular. A lot is dependent on how the State/GBR play the situation, really.

Maybe with GBRs chosen model, there's a chance that not every concession will be in dispute with ASLEF/RMT/TSSA at the same time...

 

[Carlisle]

Maybe with GBRs chosen model, there's a chance that not every concession will be in dispute with ASLEF/RMT/TSSA at the same time...

Pensions must surely be the most likely issue if not handled carefully, to provoke a potential national strike .

 

[alangla]

This weekend is going to be interesting. There’s engineering work somewhere east of Bathgate, so the one remaining Glasgow to Edinburgh route is only operating from Helensburgh to Bathgate with no replacement buses beyond there!
Needless to say ScotRail’s tweeting about this has gone down like a lead balloon… https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1433465742784139269?s=21

 

[scotrail158713]

This weekend is going to be interesting. There’s engineering work somewhere east of Bathgate, so the one remaining Glasgow to Edinburgh route is only operating from Helensburgh to Bathgate with no replacement buses beyond there!
Needless to say ScotRail’s tweeting about this has gone down like a lead balloon… https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1433465742784139269?s=21

Everyone’s favourite “cos covid” nonsensical excuse is the reasoning behind no transport as well. Nobody seems to be buying it though.

 

[Journeyman]

Everyone’s favourite “cos covid” nonsensical excuse is the reasoning behind no transport as well. Nobody seems to be buying it though.

I get the impression that people are rapidly running out of patience with "because COVID" being used as an excuse for anything anymore, where even a month or two ago they might have accepted it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Just how difficult would it have been for scotrail to ring up Lothian and ask for ticket acceptance between W Lothian and Edinburgh on the Lothian country routes?


Another very much below par performance from an operator that has never been such a good advert for the private car

 

[Unstoppable]

Just how difficult would it have been for scotrail to ring up Lothian and ask for ticket acceptance between W Lothian and Edinburgh on the Lothian country routes?


Another very much below par performance from an operator that has never been such a good advert for the private car

I tend to avoid public transport where possible and opt for my car. Twice recently I have opted for the train and both times it has been cancelled. There won't be a third time. The car is a far better option

 

[STINT47]

The tweet from Scotrail doesn't even include the word sorry.

They may as well of put there ate no trains, there are no options so do one. What a way to run a railway.

 

[alangla]

The tweet from Scotrail doesn't even include the word sorry.

They may as well of put there ate no trains, there are no options so do one. What a way to run a railway.

I suspect that's because neither ScotRail, nor Transport Scotland, are actually sorry that there are no trains on a Sunday.
Instead of staffing their social media feeds on a Sunday (wonder if those staff have got Sunday as part of the working week...) they should just set an auto reply to "nae trains" really.

 

[snookertam]

If ScotRail were covertly attempting to run down the railway in Scotland I’d struggle to know how they would differ from their current strategy.

 

[Carlisle]

Just how difficult would it have been for scotrail to ring up Lothian and ask for ticket acceptance between W Lothian and Edinburgh on the Lothian country routes?

Agreed, strange Scotrail aren’t providing any replacement busses especially as they’ll be fully clued up on expected demand, given this situation’s been ongoing for several months .

 

[Goldfish62]

You may be right, Scottish Government may well still have the ability and wish to be OLR or run things as a nationalised operator.

Governments don't run nationalised companies. Such companies and organisations have an independent board which sets the direction of the organisation, just as with private companies. The main difference is that nationalised companies have only one shareholder - the state, upon whom it relies for funding and approval of major capital spending.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Governments don't run nationalised companies. Such companies and organisations have an independent board which sets the direction of the organisation, just as with private companies. The main difference is that nationalised companies have only one shareholder - the state, upon whom it relies for funding and approval of major capital spending.

In my experience with dealing with ScotRail I’d strongly disagree with this TfS are holding the strings very tightly

 

[Goldfish62]

In my experience with dealing with ScotRail I’d strongly disagree with this TfS are holding the strings very tightly

ScotRail is not nationalised. It's state controlled. Two different things.

 

[Starmill]

This kind of direct government control is not unique to the railway. Decisions about the terms of NS&I's products, right down to what interest rates they are offering, have been taken by the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, a political appointment and a junior minister.

That has also been a disaster for their business in recent times, as it happens. It's almost as if ministers just want to control everything for themselves.

 

[Goldfish62]

This kind of direct government control is not unique to the railway. Decisions about the terms of NS&I's products, right down to what interest rates they are offering, have been taken by the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, a political appointment and a junior minister.

That has also been a disaster for their business in recent times, as it happens. It's almost as if ministers just want control everything for themselves.

Indeed. Politicians need to stick to politics and let professionals get on run the businesses.

 

[EcsWhyZee]

ScotRail is not nationalised. It's state controlled. Two different things.

True communism has never been tried!

 

[InOban]

Indeed. Politicians need to stick to politics and let professionals get on run the businesses.

But he who pays the piper calls the tune.

 

[Goldfish62]

But he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Very true...

 

[kw12]

Long-running ScotRail Sunday strikes a ‘national humiliation’ – Labour

ScotRail strikes which have left passengers with no Sunday trains since March were condemned today by Scottish Labour as a “national humiliation”.

www.scotsman.com

Long-running ScotRail Sunday strikes a ‘national humiliation’ – Labour​

ScotRail strikes which have left passengers with no Sunday trains since March were condemned today by Scottish Labour as a “national humiliation”​

It came as the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) was consulting its members at the train operator over potential further strikes throughout the two-week United Nations Cop26 climate change conference in Glasgow in November.
Labour transport spokesperson Neil Bibby told MSPs: “Industrial relations on Scotland’s railways are at all-time low.
“That’s a damning indictment of [ScotRail operator] Abellio’s treatment of key workers who kept Scotland moving and a damning indictment of this Government too.
"They are leading Scotland into Cop26 with growing unrest on the railways, and the prospect of strikes bringing Glasgow to a halt.
"It is a national humiliation and a failure of leadership from this Government.
"The minister must get a grip, and get a grip now.
"The Scottish Government and taxpayers are paying ScotRail for a seven day a week service and getting six days at the moment.”
Mr Bibby called on transport minister Graeme Dey to intervene in the dispute.
He said the minister should also get involved in a separate dispute involving more than ScotRail train engineers represented by the Unite union over not being offered a pay increase this year without productivity improvements.
Mr Dey insisted they were matters for ScotRail and the unions, but said he had encouraged both sides to try to resolve the situation.
The RMT dispute is over train conductors and ticket examiners being paid less than drivers for working on days off.
However, Mr Dey said the disparity was because extra conductors and ticket examiners had now been recruited to minimise such “rest day working” so higher payments could no longer be justified.
He said: “As part of agreed working conditions, all rail staff who work on a Sunday receive an enhanced payment.
"The current dispute concerns enhanced payments for working rest days.
"That arrangement, made between the RMT and ScotRail, provided an additional, time-limited enhancement for ticket examiners and conductors – largely an acknowledgment of the extra work existing staff were undertaking while ScotRail recruited and trained additional staff to minimise the requirement to work rest days.
"Now that there are 140 additional ticket examiners and conductors, the issue of excessive rest day working has been resolved.
"I understand why the unions and workers might want to make that additional allowance permanent, but it simply isn’t sustainable in the long term.
"Any cancellations as a result of industrial action not only have the potential to undermine the recovery of our rail services but also to impact on vital revenue streams from ticket sales.”
Mr Dey said total spending on the Scottish rail network had increased because of the Covid pandemic fall in passengers from £1.1 billion to £1.5bn a year, which he described as “simply not sustainable”.
He said: “What we have done is encourage the unions and management to come together in a constructive way to identify efficiencies from both sides which could be used to fund reasonable pay increases.”

 

[43066]

Long-running ScotRail Sunday strikes a ‘national humiliation’ – Labour

ScotRail strikes which have left passengers with no Sunday trains since March were condemned today by Scottish Labour as a “national humiliation”.

www.scotsman.com

Long-running ScotRail Sunday strikes a ‘national humiliation’ – Labour​

ScotRail strikes which have left passengers with no Sunday trains since March were condemned today by Scottish Labour as a “national humiliation”​

It came as the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) was consulting its members at the train operator over potential further strikes throughout the two-week United Nations Cop26 climate change conference in Glasgow in November.
Labour transport spokesperson Neil Bibby told MSPs: “Industrial relations on Scotland’s railways are at all-time low.
“That’s a damning indictment of [ScotRail operator] Abellio’s treatment of key workers who kept Scotland moving and a damning indictment of this Government too.
"They are leading Scotland into Cop26 with growing unrest on the railways, and the prospect of strikes bringing Glasgow to a halt.
"It is a national humiliation and a failure of leadership from this Government.
"The minister must get a grip, and get a grip now.
"The Scottish Government and taxpayers are paying ScotRail for a seven day a week service and getting six days at the moment.”
Mr Bibby called on transport minister Graeme Dey to intervene in the dispute.
He said the minister should also get involved in a separate dispute involving more than ScotRail train engineers represented by the Unite union over not being offered a pay increase this year without productivity improvements.
Mr Dey insisted they were matters for ScotRail and the unions, but said he had encouraged both sides to try to resolve the situation.
The RMT dispute is over train conductors and ticket examiners being paid less than drivers for working on days off.
However, Mr Dey said the disparity was because extra conductors and ticket examiners had now been recruited to minimise such “rest day working” so higher payments could no longer be justified.
He said: “As part of agreed working conditions, all rail staff who work on a Sunday receive an enhanced payment.
"The current dispute concerns enhanced payments for working rest days.
"That arrangement, made between the RMT and ScotRail, provided an additional, time-limited enhancement for ticket examiners and conductors – largely an acknowledgment of the extra work existing staff were undertaking while ScotRail recruited and trained additional staff to minimise the requirement to work rest days.
"Now that there are 140 additional ticket examiners and conductors, the issue of excessive rest day working has been resolved.
"I understand why the unions and workers might want to make that additional allowance permanent, but it simply isn’t sustainable in the long term.
"Any cancellations as a result of industrial action not only have the potential to undermine the recovery of our rail services but also to impact on vital revenue streams from ticket sales.”
Mr Dey said total spending on the Scottish rail network had increased because of the Covid pandemic fall in passengers from £1.1 billion to £1.5bn a year, which he described as “simply not sustainable”.
He said: “What we have done is encourage the unions and management to come together in a constructive way to identify efficiencies from both sides which could be used to fund reasonable pay increases.”

Surely if the “issue of excessive rest day working has been resolved”, the enhanced payment wouldn’t ever need to be made in any case?

Something not ringing true there.

 

[JamesT]

Long-running ScotRail Sunday strikes a ‘national humiliation’ – Labour

ScotRail strikes which have left passengers with no Sunday trains since March were condemned today by Scottish Labour as a “national humiliation”.

www.scotsman.com

Surely if the “issue of excessive rest day working has been resolved”, the enhanced payment wouldn’t ever need to be made in any case?

Something not ringing true there.

From what I’ve read in this thread, I think it’s the word ‘excessive’ that’s doing the heavy lifting. I don’t think there is any expectation that RDW has been eliminated, merely that it has been reduced to ‘normal’ levels. So Scotrail believe the conditions have been met that RDW should return to being paid at the standard rate rather than enhanced.

 

[Robertj21a]

From what I’ve read in this thread, I think it’s the word ‘excessive’ that’s doing the heavy lifting. I don’t think there is any expectation that RDW has been eliminated, merely that it has been reduced to ‘normal’ levels. So Scotrail believe the conditions have been met that RDW should return to being paid at the standard rate rather than enhanced.

Sounds logical, and sensible.

 

[74A]

I see in the article it says its only extra payment for working rest days which is the problem. I thought it was extra payments for Sunday as well ?