Scotsman Train V Plane Challenge

[route:oxford]

http://trainvplane.scotsman.com/

Race from "Scotsman Hotel" to "Gherkin"

There won't be much in it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

74:26 think the train will win: should be good. I'd taje the First Class EC ticket any day of the week!

 

[asylumxl]

I think it depends what airport in London they're going to fly to and what modes of transports they're allowed to use between the the main ones.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm guessing they're rather betting on the train winning, what with the challenge sponsor!

Also depends upon start time as well- especially if the person flying is (say) flying to City Airport.

 

[paul1609]

I think it depends what airport in London they're going to fly to and what modes of transports they're allowed to use between the the main ones.

Yeah I agree. If its a true race they will be using london city or gatwick and the train will lose miserably.
but I confidentally predict that our scottish journalist will fly to heathrow on the other side of London and get stuck in a taxi on the M4 for a couple of hours.
The train will be one of the few fast trains a day, will arrive on time rather than the standard 25 mins late!

 

[Mintona]

PREDICTION: Signalling problems at Doncaster and wires brought down at Stevenage mean train terminates at Peterborough 48 minutes late for replacement bus services to Kings Cross.

They'll most likely fly to City. I don't know how far Edinburgh airport is from the hotel that they're starting at, but that bit will probably be key.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

PREDICTION: Signalling problems at Doncaster and wires brought down at Stevenage mean train terminates at Peterborough 48 minutes late for replacement bus services to Kings Cross.

They'll most likely fly to City. I don't know how far Edinburgh airport is from the hotel that they're starting at, but that bit will probably be key.

Edinburgh Airport is near Edinburgh Park station, isn't it? Flights from Edinburgh-London City take 1h20-1h30.

 

[Greenback]

The challenge isn;t just about speed. No doubt rail will win overall, even if it somehow loses on speed, because the journalists will be able to do more work and in more comfort by train, compared to a far bittier journey involving several seperate sections. At least that's what East Coast is obviusly betting on!

The Scotsman Hotel as a start point is far more convenient for Waverley Station than it is for the airport. I am sure that the start time will also be convenient for the train departure time!

 

[paul1609]

PREDICTION: Signalling problems at Doncaster and wires brought down at Stevenage mean train terminates at Peterborough 48 minutes late for replacement bus services to Kings Cross.

They'll most likely fly to City. I don't know how far Edinburgh airport is from the hotel that they're starting at, but that bit will probably be key.

You've forgotten the compulsory unexplained 10 min stops outside darlington and doncaster for pacer spotting

 

[shinkansen1966]

It's a barely concealed promotion for East Coast trains. I like it.

Virgin should do a similar train v plane challenge from Glasgow to Euston. Fastest Anglo-Scottish journey times on the WCML are now comperable with ECML. Yet, there are more trains from Edinburgh than from Glasgow (bigger city) to London.

 

[tbtc]

It's a barely concealed promotion for East Coast trains. I like it

Good to see some positive publicity for the railways, and that's the kind of "angle" that journalists will potentially write about

 

[Greenback]

Yes, it's fine as long as no airline does a similar publicity stunt with locations and times tweaked to suit their operations! Then there will be howls of protest from some on this forum!

As we've discussed before, some journeys are better by train, some are not. It all depends on the specifics!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's a barely concealed promotion for East Coast trains. I like it.

Virgin should do a similar train v plane challenge from Glasgow to Euston. Fastest Anglo-Scottish journey times on the WCML are now comperable with ECML. Yet, there are more trains from Edinburgh than from Glasgow (bigger city) to London.

Virgin could easily shave 5-10 mins off the old record run now! In my opinion there should be a couple more headline, fast London trains a day to/from Glasgow (via the WCML), aside from the 1630 ex-Euston. Just have 2 a day Carlisle and Preston only in both directions (mind you, these already exist with the services that call at Carlisle, Penrith/Oxenholme and Preston already twice daily), or have one of the Edinburgh fasts on the ECML (calling at york and Newcastle only) extended to Glasgow Central. I know: stock, paths and Glasgow is leaving the EC network, but stuff like this will get people off the Business Class section of planes and into First Class compartments on 390s/HSTs

 

[route:oxford]

Fastest Anglo-Scottish journey times on the WCML are now comparable with ECML.

More importantly the "average" Anglo-Scotish services on the WCML are *faster* than on the East Coast.

Generally speaking Edinburgh-London services take around 4h42m, Glasgow-London services take 4h32m.

More importantly (for me) Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham services are almost all timetabled for under 4 hours.

 

[yorkie]

Yet, there are more trains from Edinburgh than from Glasgow (bigger city) to London.

Because many more people want to travel to Edinburgh (more important/nicer city) than Glasgow. The trains to Edinburgh tend to be busier, as well as there being a lot more of them.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Is there scope or plans to introduce and hourly Euston - Glasgow service ? Currently, there are some 2 hour gaps in the service. Though the service has improved a lot in recent years.

 

[tbtc]

Because many more people want to travel to Edinburgh (more important/nicer city) than Glasgow. The trains to Edinburgh tend to be busier, as well as there being a lot more of them.

The fact that Edinburgh trains serve as "Edinburgh - Newcastle" and "Newcastle - London" trains too helps.

The Glasgow - London line manages to avoid Manchester/ Liverpool/ Birmingham (which have separate links to Glasgow*/ London), so is more reliant upon "end to end" journeys than the Edinburgh - London line.

Plus also, Edinburgh is the natural route for a lot of the Scottish population (direct trains from Inverness/ Aberdeen/ Dundee/ Perth/ Falkirk/ Fife to London run through Edinburgh - and for those taking other trains and changing it's much easier to change at Edinburgh than make it from Queen Street to Central)

PS: If "being a nicer city" was the chief reason for trains from London then how come Birmingham has got so many?

(* - apart from Glasgow to Liverpool, an odd omission)

 

[jopsuk]

PREDICTION: Signalling problems at Doncaster and wires brought down at Stevenage mean train terminates at Peterborough 48 minutes late for replacement bus services to Kings Cross.

They'll most likely fly to City. I don't know how far Edinburgh airport is from the hotel that they're starting at, but that bit will probably be key.

The hotel towers above Edinburgh Waverly- it used to be the Scotsman's headquarters.
Edit: here you go

 

[philcfc1905]

Having spent the last 20 or so years traveling between London and Glasgow, most of my journeys were made by flying up from Heathrow. I switched to the train about 3 or 4 years ago. My first choice of route is via the east coast on a first class advance fare. Without doubt the journey by train is far more enjoyable than by plane. The last trip up in August was split between train up and plane back. The journey up via Edinburgh was very relaxed and pleasent, I enjoyed a nice meal without it all being a huge rush. the journey back by plane was not so great, the plane was half an hour late on departure. when I got back to Heathrow I had to wait an hour to be reunited with my luggage.
As for the journey time I do not think there is that much in it between them, when all things are taken into account. IE Check in and security checks and so on.

 

[jopsuk]

That's a goog point- will they be making them take more than hand luggage? If so, a minor disadvantage for the train user (who'll presumably take the Circle to Liverpool Street? Seems to be the same distance as Bank or Aldgate) but a big one for the plane user waiting for reclaim.

 

[flymo]

Just for a bit of fun.

Had a quick check of tomorrow's (Mon 18) flights from Edinburgh - London and there are 19 flights into Heathrow, 8 into Gatwick & 13 into London City. So 40 flights a day into London from Edinburgh (Assuming that all these airports are counted as London). Add 3 for Luton and 4 for Stansted if you like.

All the flights seem to be scheduled gate - gate to take about 1h 20m - 1h 40m

 

[me123]

They're not just looking at the times, though. It's the whole experience. So I reckon that the train is likely to win, given that they'll be able to access wifi on the East Coast service and work all the way to King's Cross (which looks likely to be a part of the challenge). When you consider all the time wasted at airports going through security and check in, I do think the train will come out on top.

Another reason that the train is likely to win is that it seems to be sponsored by East Coast

 

[paul1609]

Unfortunately if I worked on commercially sensitive documents in an unsecured location like a railway carriage I would most likely be sacked. I currently have a collegue who is being disciplined for doing some hr reports on a train from Scotland. The person sitting behind him reported him.

 

[Zoe]

The Glasgow - London line manages to avoid Manchester/ Liverpool/ Birmingham (which have separate links to Glasgow*/ London), so is more reliant upon "end to end" journeys than the Edinburgh - London line.

But does serve Carlisle and Preston, both with populations of over 100,000.

 

[At_traction]

Oh bl**dyb*ggering h*ll. And snore.
Not one of these again. Hopefully it isn't as one-sided (and scripted) as something like Top Gear "car vs. wha'ever-cr*p-as-it-isn't-a-car" thingies.

As everyone has stated, it depends so much on the starting premises. Start at the ex-North British and the train gets a nod. Starting near the departure time of an HST/225 is a nod still. (Compare this to Clarkson peeling away in a LamboAston at 100 % overspeed as May and Hammond start dragging heavy luggage to a bus stop half a mile away. In a rain.) Similarly, the arrival airport is critical as Foster's Prick is not too far from Kings Cross. But unless its patron has been specially handicapped by starting location and connections to the airport, the plane wins hands down. 29,5 minutes to be exact. Despite check-in wait. Having only a cabin bag helps also.

As for the productivity, there is definitely less time for concentrated working atop the laptop (yes, pun intended) for the flyer. Only at the departure terminal and for perhaps half an hour at the cruising altitude - perhaps also something during the taxi journeys (taxi due to the posh business setting of the competition).

The bet's on the table.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Carlisle ... with populations of over 100,000.

I would be amazed if Carlsile has a population of 100,000, but Preston has well over 150,000

 

[dk1]

Is there scope or plans to introduce and hourly Euston - Glasgow service ? Currently, there are some 2 hour gaps in the service. Though the service has improved a lot in recent years.

The 14.30 has been extended through on fridays as has the 13.43 (via W.Mids) but the gaps will have to wait until the 4 new Pendolino's are commisioned. Virgin originally planned an hourly service in VHF but this was superseded on Mondays-Fridays so as to give the basic half-hourly departures down road from 16.30-18.30 (plus 16.33 Preston). It now seems that another pressing issue is for for the first sets to be used on Birmingham-Scotland services which at times are very busy & then to ramp up the Euston-Glasgow's to hourly.

 

[jopsuk]

Start at the ex-North British and the train gets a nod.

The Scotsman is almost as good (for train travel) a starting point as the Balmoral (former North British).

 

[Bittern]

It's a barely concealed promotion for East Coast trains. I like it.

Virgin should do a similar train v plane challenge from Glasgow to Euston. Fastest Anglo-Scottish journey times on the WCML are now comperable with ECML. Yet, there are more trains from Edinburgh than from Glasgow (bigger city) to London.

To be fair, Edinburgh not only deals with it's own starting services to London, but also through services from Inverness, Aberdeen and Glasgow, whereas Glasgow only deals with it's own starters.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

The starting location isn't bad. It's close to Waverley but that means it's also close to Waverley Bridge which is the starting point for the express bus to the airport. Takes about 30 minutes.