Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Altnabreac, 27 Sep 2013.

  1. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    Yes I meant wouldn’t surprise. I think another 2tph from Edinburgh turning back at Bathgate might be a good shout for extra capacity. Many people will say another 2tph to Stirling as well but I think if that ever happens it would be replacing the current 2tph Cumbernauld paths.
     
  2. XC90

    XC90 Member

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    I wish SR would introduce hourly or even 2 hourly Glasgow Motherwell carluke carstairs haymarket edinburgh services. This would save the walk to QS or the shotts route. This could be done in 52mins I reckon.
     
  3. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    I think that's the idea of the 6tph service. You'd need a redesign of Bathgate station for terminating services. Once you've added another platform in the depot area, it's not unreasonable to consider making it a through platform rather than a bay. The stations between Airdrie and Bathgate will need more frequency without slowing down end-to-end services so extending a Bathgate stopper over would be ideal. At that point you've got a stopper from Glasgow to Airdrie, and a stopper from Edinburgh to Airdrie. Join the two of them up, with a pause to let a semi-fast overtake, and everyone is happier than today.
     
  4. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    I don’t think it’s necessary yet, but by the time the Almond Chord is built there’s a chance it will be.

    If new services have to be found to push the Almond Chord through then it probably comes second only too 6tph on the E-G.
     
  5. CEN60

    CEN60 Member

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    There were multiple options - including grade separation at both ends. (The Winchburgh end was quite complex as I recall - a bit like a puzzle with wet spaghetti)
     
  6. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    Both ends would be nice, but Winchburgh isn't essential since probably only 2tph will be coming from the Newbridge direction. On the Almond side, the traffic will be much more evenly split meaning grade separation is required.
     
  7. CEN60

    CEN60 Member

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    There were some outrageous "flat" options looked at for Winchburgh also - "NR60 H" Switches 100mph turnouts as I recall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (just what you want in a cutting with a canal above it!!
     
  8. EMU303

    EMU303 Member

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    Slightly off topic and maybe this has been covered in the previous 125 pages, so apologies in advance if so..... If the chord means more trains stopping at Gateway then can the price of a tram ticket from there to the airport be looked at - £6 single or £8.50 return, which I believe applies to any distance to/from the airport? To encourage more people to take the train/tram to/from Gateway when using the airport then a "short hop" fare for the tram is necessary? Seems crazy to charge the same price for say Airport - Haymarket on the tram versus the brief journey from Airport - Gateway.. ?
     
  9. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    yeah, obviously Winchburgh will need to be upgraded from single-lead to flat anyway.


    The Airport tram should be cheaper anyway but I doubt it will be reduced unless there is some exceptional agreement made with the Airport. There’s no doubt it will become a lot busier though, at least 2 trains per hour on the E-G (Glasgow, Falkirk, Linlithgow, Polmont, Croy (Cumbernauld) traffic), 2 Dunblanes per hour (Stirling, Larbert/Falkirk are traffic) and possibly the Chieftain are much more attractive than every second Fife Circle service, and a bunch of irregular semi-fasts up north. The usage will more than double, probably triple, in the space of a few years once that happens.
     
  10. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    Agreed athough some of that will probably be offset by some abstraction from Edinburgh Park which is likely to lose at least 2tph and possibly all 4tph from the Winchburgh direction.
     
  11. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    If you say, for example, 8tph go via Almond (6tph shuttles, and 2tph Stirling or Cumbernauld/new service) and 2tph go via Newbridge (Stirling or Cumbernauld/new service) then it’s likely that Park would recieve 6tph overall (8tph if Bathgate sees a 2tph increase). Gateway would probably see 2tph shuttles and 2tph of the other service as well as 2tph Fife and 2tph Perth/Dundee which would also add up to 8tph.

    Park is certainly better located, but it doesn’t quite justify it’s 8tph at the moment, the only reason it gets 4tph via Winchburgh is because Linlithgow/Polmont services are separated from Larbert/Stirling onces.

    I think Park will keep the Cumbernauld service as the one that goes via Newbridge, as it’s clear Gateway is more of a priority in terms of EGIP than Park is, and the Cumbernauld seems to have replaced the Dunblane train as the diddy service ScotRail can shove around and cancel whenever anything goes wrong. Although there’s an argument they may rather have the Dunblane service run with a ‘clearer path’. Ideally the Cumbernauld service would be binned and a more necessary, attractive service would be run in it’s place.

    Having trains from Glasgow (shuttles, not stoppers through Airdrie), Stirling, Falkirk, Larbert, Linlithgow etc could potentially boost numbers north of 500,000 a year I reckon. Park may dip slightly but from what I’ve seen recently there are a larger amount of passengers on the A-B services at Park than there are on the SDA ones.
     
  12. alangla

    alangla Member

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    Alternatively you could just stop maybe 2TPH from the E&G at Park. Presumably you’d want the Croy service to stop as the Cumbernauld services the other stops. Whether it’s path able and whether it’s politically acceptable to slow that service by a few minutes I don’t know, but I suspect there’s a good market at Park from the west.
     
  13. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Would it go via Hamilton i take it ? Make a call there .
     
  14. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Is it not already 2 hourly ?. XC services can be busy now , maybe but unlikely we may get another LNER SERVICE
     
  15. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    That's an option or it could start from Motherwell, or even come from Wishaw or Lanark.
     
  16. snookertam

    snookertam Member

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    I'd suggest the first priority once the Almond Chord creates additional capacity (or rather if...) might be for an extra train each hour calling all stations to Kirknewton - where it goes afterwards isn't really an issue - seems a bit of an anachronism that suburban stations like those only have an hourly service to the city centre.
     
  17. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    The E-G shuttles won’t stop at Park, they would have done long before now. Plus I’d suspect all of the shuttles to go via Gateway as the Almond chord is being built mainly for them among other reasons too. The Cumbernauld service would still stop at Park if it went that way, but if it continues to cart around fresh air it won’t be viable to keep it running post-Almond chord.
     
  18. Stopper

    Stopper Member

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    I’d agree they deserve more than hourly but all of those stations are in areas of Edinburgh with pretty good bus services except for Kirknewton which is a tiny village. It’s hard to path services between Haymarket and Midcalder Jn but I suspect the rumoured Motherwell-Edinburgh via Shotts service may call at these stations in the future.
     
  19. Ginaro

    Ginaro Member

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    A bus/tram ticket is the same whether you're going one stop or many, but the higher price of the tram to/from the airport is due to the airport charging buses and trams an access fee, source: https://twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1070788401656418305
     
  20. CollyTheTank

    CollyTheTank New Member

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    Just read a report that suggested that 25.3% of Scottish railtrack had been electrified.

    It did however date back to late 2014, prior to Edinburgh - Glasgow, Stirling/Alloa/Dunblane lines, and Shotts line between Holytown and Mid Calder.

    Does anyone have an up to date percentage on Scotland’s electrified lines, and whether more is planned - ie Stirling to Perth, East Kilbride, and Edinburgh South Suburban, or others.
     
  21. scotrail158713

    scotrail158713 Member

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    AFAIK East Kilbride is the next line intended for electrification. However there seems to be something holding it up.
    I think, ideally, they want the Fife Circle wired, but the Forth Rail Bridge is a problem.
     
  22. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    There are a few solutions to the Forth Bridge I can think of, but electrifying Glasgow-EK/Barrhead/Kilmarnock is easier and probably more needed in the short term.
     
  23. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    NR are clearing the vegetation for a survey of the EK line
     
  24. 385001

    385001 Member

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    Interesting article in The Courier today speculating about future electrification for Tayside and Fife as well as other improvements.

    First time I've seen mention of a strategic review. 15-year investment plan hoped for by the spring.

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...tions-between-east-and-west-coast-rail-lines/

     
  25. clc

    clc Established Member

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    It’ll be interesting to see how much of the £200 million a year enhancements budget is spent on electrification.
     
  26. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    After this first run went wrong, how much use have the wires down to Grangemouth actually had since being turned on?
     
  27. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    I see the SNP are still pushing the line but can't explain what they are missing as at the moment they do make "make decisions on where and how we invest in our railways" but don't want to take the accountability when it goes wrong.
     
  28. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Because the size of the Scottish budget, particularly capital spending, is fixed in relation to the UK - the Scogov has no borrowing powers. Because of the political paralysis in London, there are no new schemes anywhere.
     
  29. JamesT

    JamesT Member

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    That's not entirely correct, the Scottish Government has limited borrowing powers for capital spending and to cover shortfalls - https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-02702/
     
  30. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    Yes there are limited borrowing powers but not the same as the UK Government has, for example.
     

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