Scrapped Locomotive in Sudbury

[TiggCJ]

Hello Readers,

I found a scrapped locomotive the other day near Sudbury in Suffolk.

The locomotive is surrounded by shrubs and trees and was fenced off with barbed wire. The locomotive's number is 1077 and of a (as far as I could see) 2-8-2 wheel arrangement. It is also fitted with smoke deflectors. It seems the colour is/was red, unless it's corroded that badly! A sign saying 'Varokaa!' is located on the dome side and pointed out in one of the pictures that are attached - which I hope are of use.

Can anyone tell what class/type this locomotive is/where it came from/history etc.?

Many thanks and regards,

TiggCJ

 

[DasLunatic]

It apppears to be of Finnish origin. 'VAROKAA' in Finnish is 'CAUTION' in English.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shouldn't this thread be under 'Railway History & Nostalgia?

 

[Murph]

A quick bit of digging on the web suggests that you found a Finnish VR Class Tr1. "Varokaa!" seems to be Finnish for "Be careful of!", or, I guess "Warning!", and the illegible text below it is probably a list of things you are being warned about.

 

[ainsworth74]

Which then raises the question of how on earth it ended up in Sudbury rather than Finland?!

 

[Murph]

Which then raises the question of how on earth it ended up in Sudbury rather than Finland?!

A little more digging revealed this:

http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/finland04.htm

The Epping and Ongar Railway apparently imported 4 of them (no clear answer as to why they did that). Seemingly its sibling 1060 starred with Michael Caine and Donald Sutherland in "The Eagle Has Landed".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More info: http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Epping-Ongar.html#Steam-Locos

Seems there's been a few Finnish steam locos at Ongar, but no real explanation to how/why they ended up there.

 

[sprinterguy]

It seems the colour is/was red, unless it's corroded that badly!

The livery is black, the red staining to the top of the boiler cladding is corrosion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Seems there's been a few Finnish steam locos at Ongar, but no real explanation to how/why they ended up there.

We also had a discussion about the Epping and Ongar Railway Finnish locos a few years ago on here, though still with no clear idea what the Epping and Ongar Railway actually had planned for them:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58984

The loco being discussed here doesn't appear to be one of the former "Epping four", so gawd only knows where it's come from, who owns it or what it's future holds. Information on these locos in the UK does seem to be quite thin on the ground.

 

[DarloRich]

Were they not going to convert the line to a gauge suitable to run the finnish locos?

 

[sprinterguy]

Were they not going to convert the line to a gauge suitable to run the finnish locos?

I thought I recalled reading somewhere (though could be mistaken) that they were looking to do the opposite, and re-gauge the (5' gauge) locos to the standard gauge.

 

[Phil.]

Didn't there used to be one living in a woodyard adjacent to Southbury railways station on the upside?

 

[sprinterguy]

Didn't there used to be one living in a woodyard adjacent to Southbury railways station on the upside?

Indeed - That was Finnish Hr1 class Pacific number 1016, one of the quartet that was at the Epping and Ongar Railway.

(Identity proven here):

http://www.glias.org.uk/news/205news.html#L
Mystery Enfield Locomotive

The large railway locomotive reported at the south-east corner of Southbury station turns out to be rather more exciting that suggested (GLIAS Newsletter October 2000). It is a Finnish main line, 5ft gauge, HR1 class Pacific, number 1016. Built in 1955 by Tampella AB it looks quite pre-war so might be based on a much earlier design. The number 1016 is displayed on the cabside. It has an eight-wheeled tender on two bogies and smoke deflectors at the front. This is the kind of thing one might expect to see in a national railway museum. It appears to be associated with the Enfield Timber Company and Long & Somerville. Bob Carr

It was actually mid-way through restoration when one of the chaps leading the engineering effort sadly passed away in 2010. Since then, as far as I can tell it has unfortunately succumbed to slow deterioration much like many of the other examples of Finnish main line locos in the UK, including 1077 being discussed here.

 

[grumblingalong]

Well, given as this is firmly on my patch I should be able to spread a bit of light on the issue.

I believe they ended up in Sudbury as they were destined to go to a theme park that never got off the ground and have been there ever since.

There we go I said a bit. The yard is owned by Webb Truck Equipment if anyone fancied doing a bit more digging.

 

[Bevan Price]

I suspect that somebody was looking for interesting steam locos to purchase and restore, but most of the larger locos once at Barry were no longer available. As often happens, available funds were probably a lot less than the cost of restoration.

 

[Taunton]

One of the key things that aided the Soviet Union during the Nazi invasion of 1941-44 was that 100 years before, in the 1840s, Czar Nikolai 1, who was at the forefront of Russian railway development, determined that the gauge should be different to what was being done in countries to the west, to forestall any invading force coming by rail. In 1850, memories of Napoleon's invasion towards Moscow in 1812 were still fresh. Engineers* made it, at 5ft 0in, just sufficiently different that it was extremely difficult to do gauge conversion on rolling stock because the frames or bearings were in the way, unlike what was achieved on the GWR in 1892 when quite an amount of stock was able to be converted, from wheels outside the frames to wheels inside.

With the destruction or withdrawl eastwards of Soviet gauge stock, and the inability of German stock to interrun as they did into Poland or France, gauge conversion became critical but just didn't work out. The Germans did build some 5'0" stock but not nearly enough, and that in itself was difficult to get from the factories to the Russian gauge routes. The irony of the Soviets having been saved by a previous Czar decision was of course passed by.

What does this have to do with the account above? Conversion from 5'0" to 4'8", especially a steam locomotive with inside bearings against the inner faces of the wheels, just is a task too great.

* : The same engineers who determined that main terminal stations in the Russian language are called "Voksal", which they still are. Czar Nikolai had sent the engineers to the UK to study developments, and the London to Southampton line under construction was their principal example. This started at the London end from Vauxhall, and due to a linguistic misunderstanding the engineers thought this meant "terminus" rather than being a district of London.

 

[DaleCooper]

* : The same engineers who determined that main terminal stations in the Russian language are called "Voksal", which they still are. Czar Nikolai had sent the engineers to the UK to study developments, and the London to Southampton line under construction was their principal example. This started at the London end from Vauxhall, and due to a linguistic misunderstanding the engineers thought this meant "terminus" rather than being a district of London.

This is open to dispute, there are other possible explanations.

 

[Mvann]

As far as I remember, the Finnish locos were brought to this country by a company called steam traction ltd. I think some of them were originally going to dobwalls adventure park to run once restored but the deal fell through. This would have been either late 1980s or early 1990s. There was a thread on here a couple of years ago asking what had become of the engines. I think they were all delivered to Sudbury to start with.

 

[John Luxton]

As far as I remember, the Finnish locos were brought to this country by a company called steam traction ltd. I think some of them were originally going to dobwalls adventure park to run once restored but the deal fell through. This would have been either late 1980s or early 1990s. There was a thread on here a couple of years ago asking what had become of the engines. I think they were all delivered to Sudbury to start with.

Dobwalls was a miniature line on a small site what possible use could a locomotive of this size have been there other than as a static exhibit?

 

[Mvann]

Dobwalls was a miniature line on a small site what possible use could a locomotive of this size have been there other than as a static exhibit?

It may have been another theme park they were destind for. I thought it was dobwalls, but it must have been about 20 years ago now.

 

[rf_ioliver]

An interesting article appeared today in the Finnish newspaper Iltasanomat about the discovery of a Finnish steam locomotive built in the 1950s in a wood in Stuffolk.

If anyone has any information then please share - you'll become famous in Finland at least!

Story as published in Iltasanomat (in Finnish) here: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000004670813.html (seems to be pretty much a translatioin of the DM article)

And the source (sorry it's the DM, expect sensationalism): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...steam-train-final-stop-middle-Essex-wood.html

t.

Ian

 

[sprinterguy]

Not a new find for members of this forum, the following thread was posted almost exactly a year ago:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123409

 

[rf_ioliver]

Thanks...sometimes searching this site is a bit of a nightmare...now I go hang my head in shame for doing just as much research and investigative journalism as the DM

t.

Ian

 

[D1009]

Thanks...sometimes searching this site is a bit of a nightmare...

A tip for you, use Google!

 

[sprinterguy]

It looks to be in much better condition than many Barry wrecks which have since been restored to working order - Shame that it is entirely the wrong gauge to run in the UK!

 

[45669]

* : The same engineers who determined that main terminal stations in the Russian language are called "Voksal", which they still are. Czar Nikolai had sent the engineers to the UK to study developments, and the London to Southampton line under construction was their principal example. This started at the London end from Vauxhall, and due to a linguistic misunderstanding the engineers thought this meant "terminus" rather than being a district of London.

I seem to remember reading that Vauxhall was the original London terminus of the London & Southampton Railway. Correct me someone if I'm wrong!

 

[45669]

An interesting article appeared today in the Finnish newspaper Iltasanomat about the discovery of a Finnish steam locomotive built in the 1950s in a wood in Stuffolk.

If anyone has any information then please share - you'll become famous in Finland at least!

Story as published in Iltasanomat (in Finnish) here: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000004670813.html (seems to be pretty much a translatioin of the DM article)

And the source (sorry it's the DM, expect sensationalism): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...steam-train-final-stop-middle-Essex-wood.html

t.

Ian

Train? what train?? I could only see a locomotive!

 

[yorkie]

Not a new find for members of this forum, the following thread was posted almost exactly a year ago:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123409

I've merged the threads

A tip for you, use Google!

Agreed, and specify "site:railforums.co.uk" in your search to narrow down the results to this forum.

 

[randyrippley]

It may have been another theme park they were destind for. I thought it was dobwalls, but it must have been about 20 years ago now.

Was it Bressingham?