Season ticket - breaking journey beyond destination

[oxford]

Suppose I have an Oxford to Tilehurst season ticket.

As far as I can ascertain (from the National Rail journey planner) a "permitted route" for this journey is via Reading, which is beyond Tilehurst:

Oxford ------------------------------------- Tilehurst --- Reading

I understand that season tickets in general allow a break of journey: so what if I choose to break my journey at Reading, thus getting to Reading for less than the cost of getting to Tilehurst?

Similarly, what about joining at Reading for a return journey?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Reading fails the fares check for an Oxford to Tilehurst journey (both the Off-Peak and Anytime Day Singles from Oxford to Reading are more expensive than from Oxford to Tilehurst). So the only appropriate routeing point is Didcot. Also Oxford to Tilehurst via Reading is more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route, so it isn't valid that way.

I haven't checked, but are you sure National Rail Enquiries isn't showing that more than one ticket is required to go via Reading?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I haven't checked, but are you sure National Rail Enquiries isn't showing that more than one ticket is required to go via Reading?

It showed one ticket when I checked. I'm wondering if there is an easement at play. If it is an easement the wording of it could be crucial to the question. If there isn't an easement, I wouldn't try breaking that journey there.

 

[PeterC]

That sounds like the sort of situation which could end in a "discussion" with an RPI or BTP regardless of what is technially correct.

As far as I can make out from ploughing through the routing guide is that doubling back is permitted at Reading but it isn't clear if BoJ is permitted. The fare to Tilehurst is less so if you are correct and make your case I am sure that the anomaly would soon be rectified.

The National Rail Enquiries site defintely quotes the lower fare with a change at Reading.

 

[LexyBoy]

NRE shows it as a valid route on one ticket (as it does Oxford-Cholsey which is cheaper). NRE is supposed to show only permitted routes for the tickets, so the ticket ought to be accepted via Reading - though like Indigo2 I can't see why it technically should be valid. A safer bet would be to get an itinerary and book through (ideally getting reservations) a ticketing site such as FGW's.

For Cholsey, Pangbourne and Goring there are easements which allow travel via Reading. Tilehurst has always been missing for reasons I've never understood: it can often be quicker to travel via Reading from Tilehurst, but rarely if ever from Cholsey! Perhaps in the electronic form Tilehurst is covered?

Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

So, onto break of journey. You might expect that following a permitted route on a ticket which allows break of journey would allow you to break your journey wherever you wish. I would agree - however, it is the majority opinion here that it is not permitted in cases where either:
1) the route involves a doubling-back through a routeing group, or
2) as in this case, that the route is permitted only because of an easement which can be interpreted as validating the route only if your *journey* (not the ticket) is between the specified stations.

From experience, I would say that you'd most likely be OK on the train, you might have issues at the gateline at Reading. OTOH it may well accept the ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those easements are interesting, because Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central are in a similar situation - at some times of day, a double back is faster, but it is definitely not allowed. In the past when I've wanted to do this on a commute I've bought the more expensive MKC to London season, but the annoyance is that it is not handled well with non-season tickets.

I think the intention is that it can't be used as a workaround to go to Reading, but it technically might be allowed. But I'd expect an argument at the barrier.

Neil

 

[Flamingo]

Doesn't Oxford-Tilehurst have a "via Reading" and "not via Reading" ticket options? In which case the journey planner will show the via Reading option when this is quicker.

 

[LexyBoy]

Doesn't Oxford-Tilehurst have a "via Reading" and "not via Reading" ticket options? In which case the journey planner will show the via Reading option when this is quicker.

Nope, just Any Permitted. FGW have "dealt with" this and similar easements in the manner you describe on a lot of flows, but not all.

 

[Flamingo]

Fair enough.

 

[oxford]

Thanks for the detailed replies.

So am I right in thinking the consensus is:

Breaking at Reading is probably technically allowed, but a) the barriers might not let you through, and/or b) you may get challenged by a gate inspector.

LexyBoy - I can't seem to find the single-ticket option on NRE for the Oxford-Cholsey route via Reading - if via Reading was a permitted route for that journey that would be a much bigger loophole!

 

[Hadders]

Those easements are interesting, because Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central are in a similar situation - at some times of day, a double back is faster, but it is definitely not allowed. In the past when I've wanted to do this on a commute I've bought the more expensive MKC to London season, but the annoyance is that it is not handled well with non-season tickets.

I think the intention is that it can't be used as a workaround to go to Reading, but it technically might be allowed. But I'd expect an argument at the barrier.

Neil

I believe there used to be an easement for this to cover this double back (or perhaps it was covered by Bletchley Group which was abolished a couple of years ago iirc).

Pre-1982 (when MKC opened) Bletchley was the inter-city stop. When the inter-city stops were moved to MKC the double back would have been considered reasonable so as not to inconvenience Bletchley passengers (and those connecting via the Marston Vale line).

I wonder why they it was felt necessary to abolish the double back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder why they it was felt necessary to abolish the double back.

Possibly because the fare is a bit lower. Which I never really understood given that Wolverton takes almost all fares from MKC, yet Bletchley doesn't.

Arguably a Milton Keynes Stns fare set with a double back easement would make more sense. Though I imagine most commuters would prefer their lower fares, as the double back only makes sense at certain times of day (and Sundays).

Neil

 

[Mr Spock]

Thanks for the detailed replies.

So am I right in thinking the consensus is:

Breaking at Reading is probably technically allowed, but a) the barriers might not let you through, and/or b) you may get challenged by a gate inspector.

LexyBoy - I can't seem to find the single-ticket option on NRE for the Oxford-Cholsey route via Reading - if via Reading was a permitted route for that journey that would be a much bigger loophole!

I would have thought that the only reason you could go via Reading would be to change trains so that you have increased and/or improved (faster) journey options so do not see why you should be able to break your journey at Reading.

 

[bb21]

I don't see anything that would forbid break of journey at Reading.

This would be the case if validity was only by virtual of the Group Stations Rule, but that is not the case here.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Reading fails the fares check for an Oxford to Tilehurst journey (both the Off-Peak and Anytime Day Singles from Oxford to Reading are more expensive than from Oxford to Tilehurst). So the only appropriate routeing point is Didcot. Also Oxford to Tilehurst via Reading is more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route, so it isn't valid that way.

I haven't checked, but are you sure National Rail Enquiries isn't showing that more than one ticket is required to go via Reading?

It showed one ticket when I checked. I'm wondering if there is an easement at play. If it is an easement the wording of it could be crucial to the question. If there isn't an easement, I wouldn't try breaking that journey there.

NRE shows it as a valid route on one ticket (as it does Oxford-Cholsey which is cheaper). NRE is supposed to show only permitted routes for the tickets, so the ticket ought to be accepted via Reading - though like Indigo2 I can't see why it technically should be valid.

I have discovered a few instances recently where NRE was showing double backs as valid when it really appears they ought not to be. Upon investigation it transpired that the journey planners were not recognising that the double back existed as there were no appropriate timing points in the system which the planners recognised, and hence they didn't actually recognise that you had already gone past a certain point. It is for this reason that lots of negative easements appear without any logical reason.

 

[bb21]

Reading passes fares check at NFM64, so combined with the lack of timing points at Tilehurst, could explain the doubleback being permitted I think.