Season ticket change-over to 1st class (and back)

[rwuk]

I hold a season ticket from Basingstoke to Queenstown Road (via London permitted) that’s standard class.

I’m contemplating upgrading to 1st, primarily because I usually change at Clapham Junction in the evening onto the 1657 which is a diesel train that has no air-con in the vestibules which is the only available space when boarding at CLJ more often than not. This is only reallly an issue for the warmer months So is it possible to:

1) Change a season ticket from STD class to 1st, then
2) Some time later change a season ticket from 1st to STD class

I’d anticipate wanting to be 1st class (basically to be able to get a seat during the months that it’s too hot to stomach standing in be vestibule) for about 4 or 5 months of the year. Frustratingly it’s only an issue for the evening journey, my train in the morning always has ample seats except on the very rare occasion it’s short-formed.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I hold a season ticket from Basingstoke to Queenstown Road (via London permitted) that’s standard class.

I’m contemplating upgrading to 1st, primarily because I usually change at Clapham Junction in the evening onto the 1657 which is a diesel train that has no air-con in the vestibules which is the only available space when boarding at CLJ more often than not. This is only reallly an issue for the warmer months So is it possible to:

1) Change a season ticket from STD class to 1st, then
2) Some time later change a season ticket from 1st to STD class

I’d anticipate wanting to be 1st class (basically to be able to get a seat during the months that it’s too hot to stomach standing in be vestibule) for about 4 or 5 months of the year. Frustratingly it’s only an issue for the evening journey, my train in the morning always has ample seats except on the very rare occasion it’s short-formed.

Doing what you propose is processed in the same way as any other change of season ticket: you pay the pro-rata difference between a standard and first class season ticket for the remaining validity when you switch over to first, and then do the same in reverse, pro-rata again, when you want to switch back to standard. There should be no administration fees charged for changing a season ticket in this way.

See Condition 41 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel for full details on the contractual arrangements; note that your season ticket must originally have been valid for one month or longer, and it must still have at least one werk's validity remaining.

The calculations for the process are rather complex as they don't go off the actual number of days' validity remaining each time, but rather assuming numbers of days in each complete calendar month and so on.

So don't be surprised if you're told that the request can't immediately be dealt with (especially if you ask at rush hour!) such that you either have to leave your season ticket e.g. on a Friday for pickup again on a Monday, or otherwise involving s wait.

 

[rwuk]

Doing what you propose is processed in the same way as any other change of season ticket: you pay the pro-rata difference between a standard and first class season ticket for the remaining validity when you switch over to first, and then do the same in reverse, pro-rata again, when you want to switch back to standard. There should be no administration fees charged for changing a season ticket in this way.

See Condition 41 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel for full details on the contractual arrangements; note that your season ticket must originally have been valid for one month or longer, and it must still have at least one werk's validity remaining.

The calculations for the process are rather complex as they don't go off the actual number of days' validity remaining each time, but rather assuming numbers of days in each complete calendar month and so on.

So don't be surprised if you're told that the request can't immediately be dealt with (especially if you ask at rush hour!) such that you either have to leave your season ticket e.g. on a Friday for pickup again on a Monday, or otherwise involving s wait.

Thanks for taking the time to give me a detailed reply, much appreciated! My season ticket is an annual so will meet the validity criteria at both change-over points.

To clarify, my season is purchased on the last day of the previous year (in order to defer the price increase) so will have 6 months of validity at the point (the start of June) that I want to switch from STD to 1st. Does this mean that I’ll pay half the difference (as there will be six months remaining) between the annual STD and 1st prices?

Last question: Will I receive a refund when switching back to STD from 1st, or an extension of validity for the equivalent value?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks for taking the time to give me a detailed reply, much appreciated!

No problem!

To clarify, my season is purchased on the last day of the previous year (in order to defer the price increase) so will have 6 months of validity at the point (the start of June) that I want to switch from STD to 1st. Does this mean that I’ll pay half the difference (as there will be six months remaining) between the annual STD and 1st prices?

If you switch exactly half way through the validity then yes, you would pay half the difference between the annual standard and first class season ticket prices. Note that 'half' of the validity, for the purpose of season ticket changeover calculations, may be different to what you or I consider 'half' of the validity. This is because the season ticket can be valid for variety of number of days, as an annual is always valid until one day less than a calendar year ahead, and not for, say, 365 days or something. It's complex! But yes, it would be approximately half the difference.

Last question: Will I receive a refund when switching back to STD from 1st, or an extension of validity for the equivalent value?

You would get a refund in the same way as you would have paid your upgrade. Extensions on season tickets are only usually granted where it is due to a claim for either delays or void days under Passengers' Charter arrangements (which wouldn't apply to SWR unless you happened to buy your season ticket before the new franchise's Delay Repay scheme was introduced). Other than this it would usually only be granted in exceptional circumstances.

 

[bb21]

Last question: Will I receive a refund when switching back to STD from 1st, or an extension of validity for the equivalent value?

Validity cannot be extended on your ticket in any case, as it is already at the maximum 12 months.

 

[Hadders]

It might be worth considering purchase a daily excess, particularly if you only need the upgrade in one direction.

The excess would need to be purchased before travel and is the difference between the Anytime Day Single and the First Anytime Day Single. Assuming you have a Basingstoke to Queenstown Road Annual Season routed 'London not Underground' then the excess would be £18.20 one way.

Admittedly it'd be a faff getting a daily upgrade but it would allow you to pick and choose depending on the weather. To be fair a changeover to a 1st class ticket would give you 1st class travel both ways.

 

[MikeWh]

Note that 'half' of the validity, for the purpose of season ticket changeover calculations, may be different to what you or I consider 'half' of the validity. This is because the season ticket can be valid for variety of number of days, as an annual is always valid until one day less than a calendar year ahead, and not for, say, 365 days or something. It's complex! But yes, it would be approximately half the difference.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. An annual is valid for 12 months. The changeover calculation works with the daily base rate for each part where the daily base rate is 1/365th of the price (or 1/366th if Feb 29th appears within the year of validity). Most years it would be impossible to split it exactly in half, but it's really not that complex.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Why don't you just go via London, which I appreciate would take a little longer, but it would mean you get a seat and a greater choice of trains, without any extra cost?

On a separate not, does anyone understand why this season is slightly more expensive that Basingstoke to Waterloo, given Queenstown Road is on a permitted route?

 

[kieron]

On a separate not, does anyone understand why this season is slightly more expensive that Basingstoke to Waterloo, given Queenstown Road is on a permitted route?

There are two Basingstoke-Queenstown Road season tickets. One is valid via London, the other isn't. Are you sure you haven't confused them?

A switch to a "London not Und" season ticket would be cheaper, but I don't know rwuk's situation.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I'm not sure what you are saying here. An annual is valid for 12 months. The changeover calculation works with the daily base rate for each part where the daily base rate is 1/365th of the price (or 1/366th if Feb 29th appears within the year of validity). Most years it would be impossible to split it exactly in half, but it's really not that complex.

That's what I mean - you can't split it exactly in half, and then you're left calculating parts of months and the like, which are all needlessly complex calculations when you do season ticket changeovers.

 

[Starmill]

Why don't you just go via London, which I appreciate would take a little longer, but it would mean you get a seat and a greater choice of trains, without any extra cost?

On a separate not, does anyone understand why this season is slightly more expensive that Basingstoke to Waterloo, given Queenstown Road is on a permitted route?

There are two Basingstoke-Queenstown Road season tickets. One is valid via London, the other isn't. Are you sure you haven't confused them?

A switch to a "London not Und" season ticket would be cheaper, but I don't know rwuk's situation.

Is the following the comparison that MichaelAMW was making?

Basingstoke to London Terminals 7DS 'via Woking' £110.60
Basingstoke to Queenstown Road 7DS 'London not Underground' £111.20

Both tickets permit the OP to make the journey in the way they describe and to travel via London Terminals if they should wish. Of course the OP has not stated if they ever use their ticket to travel on other routes, such as via Reading. The OP implies that they do wish to retain the flexibility to travel via London.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Is the following the comparison that MichaelAMW was making?

Basingstoke to London Terminals 7DS 'via Woking' £110.60
Basingstoke to Queenstown Road 7DS 'London not Underground' £111.20

Both tickets permit the OP to make the journey in the way they describe and to travel via London Terminals if they should wish. Of course the OP has not stated if they ever use their ticket to travel on other routes, such as via Reading. The OP implies that they do wish to retain the flexibility to travel via London.

It was, indeed!

 

[causton]

That's what I mean - you can't split it exactly in half, and then you're left calculating parts of months and the like, which are all needlessly complex calculations when you do season ticket changeovers.

For a refund it is different but for a changeover, it is just divide the two annual prices by 365 to find the daily rate and multiply by the amount of days. Not too complex!

i.e. if you swapped a season ticket that was £1000 for a new one that was £2000 exactly halfway through the year (which can't actually happen because 365 is an odd number ) - the cost would be exactly £500 (the difference being £1000 for a year and the validity period being exactly half a year)