Season ticket transfer to Tfl travelcard

[Chemicista]

Hi all.

My partner currently gets an annual season ticket for his daily commute to work (Reading - London zones 1-6). We both live in Reading and I work there too. The season ticket expires soon, but he's considering what the best option for renewal would be as there is a strong possibility that I'll be getting a new job in North London, which would mean that we'd be relocating to somewhere else, quite likely within the London Travelcard area (either zone 5 or 6). I'm at the interview stage, and I expect to know whether my application is successful by the end of September, with a view to leave Reading by the end of November. As the cost of the season ticket is quite substantial (>5000, works out as roughly £440 per month), we're thinking about the best way to minimise losses, if possible. It is my understanding that a season ticket transfer would entitle him to a pro-rata refund, unfortunately as he'd only need a Tfl travelcard he'd have to ask for a refund (calculated over 10 months) and then use that to purchase the travelcard. I can't work out the loss he'd incur by doing the latter, so my question is, what would be the most cost-effective way to go about this?

Would it be better to get a monthly season ticket (£510) for September, wait to know whether we'd be moving out of Reading, and if so buy another monthly ticket to cover him until we move?

Or would it be better to get the annual season ticket, apply for a refund in November, then purchase the travelcard?

I read somewhere else on this forum ( https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/season-ticket-refund.162142/ ) that a third option would be applying for a season ticket transfer to Devonport - Dockyard (£120) to get the full pro-rata refund. Would this work too?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[Haywain]

It is my understanding that a season ticket transfer would entitle him to a pro-rata refund, unfortunately as he'd only need a Tfl travelcard he'd have to ask for a refund (calculated over 10 months) and then use that to purchase the travelcard.

Your understanding is wrong. A 'transfer' (officially known as a changeover) can be done to a Travelcard, although it is likely to be issued as a paper ticket. It would also retain the Gold Card status giving exactly the same benefits as the current annual season ticket.

Therefore the best option would appear to be to buy the annual season as normal, and then apply for a changeover at an appropriate time, when a refund will be issued on a pro-rata basis.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi all.

My partner currently gets an annual season ticket for his daily commute to work (Reading - London zones 1-6). We both live in Reading and I work there too. The season ticket expires soon, but he's considering what the best option for renewal would be as there is a strong possibility that I'll be getting a new job in North London, which would mean that we'd be relocating to somewhere else, quite likely within the London Travelcard area (either zone 5 or 6). I'm at the interview stage, and I expect to know whether my application is successful by the end of September, with a view to leave Reading by the end of November. As the cost of the season ticket is quite substantial (>5000, works out as roughly £440 per month), we're thinking about the best way to minimise losses, if possible. It is my understanding that a season ticket transfer would entitle him to a pro-rata refund, unfortunately as he'd only need a Tfl travelcard he'd have to ask for a refund (calculated over 10 months) and then use that to purchase the travelcard. I can't work out the loss he'd incur by doing the latter, so my question is, what would be the most cost-effective way to go about this?

Would it be better to get a monthly season ticket (£510) for September, wait to know whether we'd be moving out of Reading, and if so buy another monthly ticket to cover him until we move?

Or would it be better to get the annual season ticket, apply for a refund in November, then purchase the travelcard?

I read somewhere else on this forum ( https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/season-ticket-refund.162142/ ) that a third option would be applying for a season ticket transfer to Devonport - Dockyard (£120) to get the full pro-rata refund. Would this work too?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

The only disadvantage to buying an annual season ticket vs monthly ones where you are not sure how many months you need it for, is that a) there is an admin fee of £10 for refunds, and b) there is an opportunity cost (sometimes significant) associated with effectively lending the TOCs the money for an annual.

If you are not sure whether you will need a season ticket for one month or for several, then, if you are in the financial position to do so, I would buy an annual season ticket. As far as I'm aware it is not possible to change this over to a purely Zonal Travelcard (though I may be wrong about this - @MikeWh?) - it would have to be a season ticket from outside the Zones to within. Something like Theobalds Grove to London Zones 1-6 would cost £5.40 a week more than a Zones 1-6 Travelcard and you would undoubtedly be able to changeover to that. EDIT: Apparently it is possible to do this - however you can only change over to a paper Travelcard. This has pros and cons - it means you never need to tap in and out, just use it in the barriers where required. However, it may wear out and require replacement at some frequency (which an Oyster card won't!).

However if you are looking for the absolute largest refund then you'd want to changeover to someting like Devonport-Dockyard as you've said, and then refund that changed-over new season ticket. Doing may be an unintended use (some may say misuse!) of the changeover and refund options but ultimately it is currently still your contractual right if you buy a season ticket at the moment. It may of course change in the future.

 

[island]

You can changeover from a point to point season ticket to an inboundary Travelcard; I did so a couple of years ago. You will likely end up with a paper ticket.

 

[bb21]

If the difference is only a month or two, the difference is unlikely to be that big, especially given that you still needed a quite expensive ticket after the changeover.

I would say just go with the monthly for this month and possibly the next one, so that you have a better idea where you are in life then.

I doubt it is worth the hassle of going for a changeover and potentially having to "shop around".

 

[Chemicista]

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate the help. My understanding that a changeover to a Tfl travelcard wasn't possible came from an online exchange with GWR over Twitter. My partner will go to the station and enquire tomorrow, hopefully the GWR employee got it wrong and it's possible as Haywain, ForTheLoveOf and island said earlier. The changeover could be done to any (paper) travelcard e.g. Zone 1-5 or 1-4, it wouldn't have to be 1-6 necessarily, right?

 

[Chemicista]

I doubt it is worth the hassle of going for a changeover and potentially having to "shop around".

Hassle in what way? Is it normally a lengthy process to apply for a changeover?

It appears that a changeover to a Tfl travelcard is actually possible, so for now it's looking like the best option would be to purchase the annual season ticket now, then do a changeover to the travelcard in a couple of months' time. Two monthly tickets would cost £140 more than the equivalent annual season ticket cost over the same period, I know it isn't much in the grand scheme of things but if it can be avoided...

 

[Haywain]

My understanding that a changeover to a Tfl travelcard wasn't possible came from an online exchange with GWR over Twitter. My partner will go to the station and enquire tomorrow, hopefully the GWR employee got it wrong and it's possible as Haywain, ForTheLoveOf and island said earlier. The changeover could be done to any (paper) travelcard e.g. Zone 1-5 or 1-4, it wouldn't have to be 1-6 necessarily, right?

A couple of things - you may have confused the issue a little by referring to a TfL Travelcard. It's a Travelcard, pure and simple, and is a joint National Rail and TfL product. It is definitely possible to do such a changeover*, although some rail staff may not show much enthusiasm for doing it due to it being a somewhat complex calculation, especially when it comes to accounting for it. And yes, any appropriate zonal combination is possible.

*I've done a good few such changeovers over the years working in ticket offices.

 

[Hadders]

Just to add that the changeover will need to be done at a National Rail station.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hassle in what way? Is it normally a lengthy process to apply for a changeover?

It appears that a changeover to a Tfl travelcard is actually possible, so for now it's looking like the best option would be to purchase the annual season ticket now, then do a changeover to the travelcard in a couple of months' time. Two monthly tickets would cost £140 more than the equivalent annual season ticket cost over the same period, I know it isn't much in the grand scheme of things but if it can be avoided...

Some ticket offices are happy and willing to do more complex transactions such as these kinds of changeovers. Others will simply give you excuses like "you can't do that", "we can't do that" or "try another ticket office" etc. Unfortunately such clerks are making the argument for their demise and closure stronger, however it may be necessary to try a few different ticket offices if you don't have success the first time around.

Something else you might experience is that you are told the changeover is too complex - or too high value - to calculate there and then, so (in the case of a change to a cheaper ticket) you are given the new one, have the old one taken away, and then get contacted later on (usually by phone) once the refund has been calculated and/or authorised, so you can give bank/card details to receive the refund.

As you've said, there is a moderate saving to be made and if you're willing to undergo the possible hassle of having to try to get the changeover at multiple ticket offices then I would say go for it.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I used to work in booking offices. To give you a rough idea of the amount of refund, and to help you check they do the calculation correctly, the way to work it out is thus:
1 You need the price of your original ticket
2 You need the price of your new ticket, for the same length of time, that applied at the time you bought your original ticket (ie if there's been a fares revision, you need the old price)
3 Divide both of the above figures by 365
4 Multiply both figures by the number of days of validity remaining on your original ticket (from the date the changeover applies from)
5 Take the lower amount away from the higher amount
6 This is the amount you need to pay/refund you will receive depending on whether your new ticket is valued at a higher or lower amount than your original ticket
7 Your new ticket's expiry date will be the same as your original ticket

 

[Surreytraveller]

Just to add that the changeover will need to be done at a National Rail station.

Don't forget this. Your current station can do the changeover, but my advice was do it at your new local station if possible, as that will make it easier if you ever need refunds/duplicates/replacements due to magnetic strips failing etc, as your record will be held at the station that issues the ticket

 

[bb21]

Hassle in what way? Is it normally a lengthy process to apply for a changeover?

It appears that a changeover to a Tfl travelcard is actually possible, so for now it's looking like the best option would be to purchase the annual season ticket now, then do a changeover to the travelcard in a couple of months' time. Two monthly tickets would cost £140 more than the equivalent annual season ticket cost over the same period, I know it isn't much in the grand scheme of things but if it can be avoided...

It's about that for two months I think. I did a rough back of the fag packet calculation and it's about £65 a month max on a rolling basis but the two methods will have two different cut-off points so actual saving will vary depending on how your personal circumstances turned out at the end should it change again in the future. There are also a few other things which reduce the saving somewhat atm but still just over £100 I think.

All depends on personal perspective, as Forthelove says. If you are happy to "shop around" potentially then go for it. You may find it easier to purchase it from specific retailers to start with if you want it on Oyster once you change into the inboundary version. Chiltern and London Overground stations should be able to do that. Victoria is another one I believe.

Most people will simply find it easier to not mess around with changeovers but each to their own.

 

[Chemicista]

Station staff confirmed that the changeover is indeed possible. They also recommended coming in the morning as likely a supervisor would need to approve it. Thanks for the help!

 

[Haywain]

They also recommended coming in the morning as likely a supervisor would need to approve it.

That's good advice as the refund paperwork will almost certainly need a supervisor to sign it, and they'd probably prefer to check the calculations for the changeover as well.