Self Dispatch from Voyagers

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by 1e10, 29 Aug 2013.

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  1. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    Hi,

    I've observed self-dispatch from a XC HST and obviously the guard hangs his head out of the window so that he can observe the train as it departs the station to ensure all is well. I am wondering though how a guard would make sure all w well if a voyager was to pull away from a self dispatch station? Voyagers don't have any windows (as far as I know) and so am wondering how a guard would ensure a safe departure without being able to observe?

    Thanks :)
     
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  3. Anvil1984

    Anvil1984 Established Member

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    Voyagers have got windows just not drop down ones. They would self dispatch the sane way as the same way as other TOC guards do on 150/2, 156s,158s etc
     
  4. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Indeed. The Guard 'window hanging' from an HST would happen regardless of the dispatch arrangements; whether it's self dispatch or he's given the tip by platform staff he would still observe the train until it clears the platform.
     
    Last edited: 29 Aug 2013
  5. 175001

    175001 Member

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    Same situation with Class 150's. 150/1's have a dropdown window, whilst 150/2's have a power operated door that has no dropdown window.
     
  6. wensley

    wensley Established Member

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    Exactly the same as from the centre panel on a 185, or from any door on a 180. Stand by the window and observe the platform as best as possible whilst departing!
     
  7. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    So the guard will simply look out a window to the best of his ability?
     
  8. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    yes - is that not obvious if the train is "sealed"
     
  9. Beveridges

    Beveridges Established Member

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    And see a hell of a lot less than he could if he could hang out of the window.

    Not a good idea sealed windows really are they.
     
  10. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Better than droplights if they're in a passenger area though - ask anyone who's ever had some idiot trying to board or leave an HST through a window. Yep, it really does happen.

    Ideally, Guards would be able to dispatch from a cab and thus, on most stock, have an opening window from which to observe the platform. TOCs tend to be against the idea though.
     
  11. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    I guess trying to leave a HST can be confusing for some though. Leaving a FGW HST at Penzance was a spanish girl and her mate stood at the door, the pair of them were totally thrown by the door. They couldn't figure out why there was no handle on the inside and even after I explained they had to drop the window and reach out they were still none of the wiser.
     
  12. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    I knew they were all desperate to get their MTU thrash really! ;)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Well, Penzance is probably one of the better places for that to happen.

    A couple of months back I was waiting to get off a HST with a woman stood in front waiting for the door. As soon as we arrived, my suspicion that she wouldn't know how to open the door were correct, as she promptly then walked back past me to go and use the next door that someone else had opened, all without saying a thing!
     
  13. Beveridges

    Beveridges Established Member

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    How can a Guard be expected to see much if he is looking through a sealed window ?

    The view is about 5% of what it would be if you could hang out the window.

    I'm surprised all stock does not have opening windows in the Guards area.
     
  14. TOCDriver

    TOCDriver Member

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    A Northern guard should have no need for a window unless it's to keep them cool in the summer
     
  15. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    Well the other option is to have like 373s do with the local door open up until about 15mph
     
  16. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    Does anyone know if it's possible for a Voyager to move with the rear cab door open?

    EDIT: Scrap that, remember seeing one with the front door open at Paignton two weeks ago as it came into the station.
     
    Last edited: 29 Aug 2013
  17. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    It's not different for us either when we work stock from the passenger saloons on SWT land, we just have to stand by the local door window until the train has left the platform and do the best we can. Not the most ideal situation but it does have the advantage of the guard being able to dispatch from anywhere on the train and not keep having to return to the same place to do the doors which I can imagine is a royal pain in the backside if you have a ticket machine .
     
  18. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    I guess in some ways you'd get a better view in the saloon of suburban stock than from a vestibule door of intercity style stock. If 150/2s have a fixed window in the local door then I would have thought the view would be better from their passenger doors? Hmm.
     
  19. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Yes, very definitely.
     
  20. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    Are staffed allowed to dispatch from anywhere on the train? I've heard some TOCs don't like it. Be interesting to know more on this.
     
  21. thelongestroad

    thelongestroad Member

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    It depends. On some types of train and at certain stations it's more ideal to dispatch from certain places over others.

    We have company station specific rules which say where we can and cannot dispatch from for a variety of reasons.. usually for signal and hazard sightings.
     
  22. Matt Taylor

    Matt Taylor Established Member

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    Yes, on SWT we can despatch from anywhere that has door controls, although this is limited as we need to consider where is safest to position ourselves taking into account platform curvature, and signal sighting and any other potential hazards. Selective door operation at short platforms can only be done from cabs though.
     
  23. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    The guard at a local door window can see a fair bit more than the driver of a DOO train that's just self-dispatched using mirrors, platform cameras/moniotrs or even look-back from a drop-light. On trains with DOO cameras/monitors in the cab, do they stay active as the train pulls away, or are they immediately blanked to prevent distraction?
     
  24. Mojo

    Mojo Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    On the Underground the in-cab monitors are active until the train has left station limits (ie. the last car has left the platform) however I understand on NR trains with bodyside mounted cameras they switch off above a certain speed.
     
  25. 185

    185 Established Member

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    In some circumstances (eg heavy overcrowding, or serious problems on platform) I have despatched from the back driver's seat, with the cab window open. Occasionally, you have to do the sensible thing, and the company saw no issue with it in exceptional those circumstances.
     
  26. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    GNER didn't allow the Train Guards to use that option why they had the NOL sets, local door had to be closed before the RA was given as per MK4s. It would probably be a concern to the guards/nearby passengers safety.
     
  27. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    The only underground stock with said monitors run on lines that either presently have ATO, or are in the process of being converted to be ATO, so without the issue of SOYSPADs (or possibly SODYSPADs) that these monitors otherwise present.
     
  28. Mojo

    Mojo Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Track to train CCTV was first introduced on 1992 stock, and has been installed on all stock since then. Bear in mind that the Northern line will not be fully automatic for a few months yet, that is some 17 years with this method of departing from stations will be used. Similarly, in open sections on Sundays & Bank Holidays the Central line is operated manually ;)

    It's more the different type of signalling that LU has (except on the North end of the Met) rather than ATO that prevents this from being an issue.

    Given that checking the station starter is usually part of a T/Op's routine at locations with traditional platform mounted monitors/mirrors, and a train should never depart a platform if it is likely to have to stop within station limits (for example leaving Leicester Square Eastbound, the T/Op must ensure that both A759[sup]A[/sup] and A759[sup]B[/sup] are green) then I do not believe this method of operation increases the risk of Spads.
     
  29. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    As far as I know its all based on risk assessments. If a self dispatch from inside a window is not adequate for that particular location then there will probably be platform staff employed there to assist in dispatch with that stock.


    And it is also interesting to note there are also locations where Pendolinos (9 and 11 car) self dispatch with the guard inside the sealed door. Again risk assessment.
     
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