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Seperate Edinburgh & Glasgow to Aberdeen services joining at Dundee today - Why?

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Clansman

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Looking at my train times today and noticed that the 1A83 from Edinburgh to Aberdeen joins onto the Glasgow Queen Street service at Dundee. I've never seen this before, and it's not been diagrammed in the past nor future either.
Anyone know why this is?

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Note the Glasgow portion is diverted via Cumbernauld rather than the usual route via Croy.
 

IanXC

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Something to do with the wires on EGIP being too low on some parts?

Seems unlikely.

Via Cumbernauld has been a relatively frequent diversion (out with the Queen Street blockade) to allow electrification work on the route via Croy.
 

Clansman

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Seems unlikely.

Via Cumbernauld has been a relatively frequent diversion (out with the Queen Street blockade) to allow electrification work on the route via Croy.

Seems probable. Network Rail are reported to have made a c*ck up by hanging the wires too low, so trains are terminating at Polmont from Glasgow tonight anyway.
 

najaB

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Seems probable. Network Rail are reported to have made a c*ck up by hanging the wires too low, so trains are terminating at Polmont from Glasgow tonight anyway.
Going to be pedantic here: was it NR or a contractor? Makes a difference who pays to fix it!
 

edwin_m

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Is this the issue seen on other routes, with OLE clearance standards having changed since the start of design?
 

ld0595

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This isn't new. I was on this train a few months back where two units joined at Dundee. For the past while there has always been one Sunday service from Edinburgh and Glasgow that joins at Dundee - RTT shows that this was the case last week and the same for the next few weeks.
 

scotraildriver

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Is this the issue seen on other routes, with OLE clearance standards having changed since the start of design?

Yes it exactly that. The standards changed. They haven't just randomly been installed too low. And trains terminating at Polmont runs until December to allow completion of the OHL. Nothing to do with being too low. Honestly, the absolute drivel being spouted on here is getting quite silly.
 

SkinnyDave

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It is a booked move every Sunday where rhe Edin and Glasgow portion attach before heading up the road to Aberdeen!
 

AndrewE

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Just to prove that it can be done! It would improve lots of services this side of the Channel and save paths on congested city centre core routes if it was adopted more widely.
In Belgium on several routes you can go from Branches A or B to C or D without changing train. You simply have to move into an adjacent unit for one of the options.
Unfortunately it seems to be generally felt here that it is too difficult for UK railways to manage.
 

snowball

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Seems probable. Network Rail are reported to have made a c*ck up by hanging the wires too low, so trains are terminating at Polmont from Glasgow tonight anyway.
I don't think anybody (except you) is suggesting that the wires are so low that they're a danger to trains when they haven't even been switched on! The wires thing is a matter of new stricter electrical clearance rules, as discussed in other threads.
 

30907

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Just to prove that it can be done! It would improve lots of services this side of the Channel and save paths on congested city centre core routes if it was adopted more widely.
In Belgium on several routes you can go from Branches A or B to C or D without changing train. You simply have to move into an adjacent unit for one of the options.
Unfortunately it seems to be generally felt here that it is too difficult for UK railways to manage.

Quite common still South of the Thames, though of course the trains concerned only run to a London Terminal. Can't think of anywhere in the UK where the full Brussels-type solution would be useful.
 

Closet2405

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Quite common still South of the Thames, though of course the trains concerned only run to a London Terminal. Can't think of anywhere in the UK where the full Brussels-type solution would be useful.

How about a service dividing/joining at Bristol? You could then have termini at London and Birmingham at one end, Wales and Devon/Cornwall at the other.
 

Clansman

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I don't think anybody (except you) is suggesting that the wires are so low that they're a danger to trains when they haven't even been switched on! The wires thing is a matter of new stricter electrical clearance rules, as discussed in other threads.

Im suggesting nowt. I'm trying to understand what was happening, hence why I said "Reported". I'm only going by what I've read in the papers (not the most reliable thing to do if you're looking for truths and consistency ;))

Apologies for the inconvenience :)
 
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Muzer

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How about a service dividing/joining at Bristol? You could then have termini at London and Birmingham at one end, Wales and Devon/Cornwall at the other.
It'd be quite a bit slower than existing services though!




And yeah, joining/dividing is widely used South of the Thames but getting less common. South West Trains, for instance, don't do much of it any more on their electrified lines, having mostly phased it out outside the peak times. You still get a few trains that divide at Southampton or Bournemouth but that's just to avoid sending all 10 coaches down to Weymouth when they only need 5; the other portion terminates and turns around to form a London train. They used to run a Waterloo to Portsmouth and Poole service on Sundays, splitting at Eastleigh, but I think they were looking at splitting it into two services from Waterloo to Portsmouth and Waterloo to Poole within a few minutes of each other. Don't know if they actually did that in the end or not.

During the peaks they run oddities like a Waterloo to Poole and Fareham service splitting at Basingstoke (the Poole service calling Winchester Eastleigh then most stations to Poole, the Fareham service calling all stations Basingstoke to Fareham, also via Eastleigh), and they have quite a few services that divide at Southampton, the front portion of which is then fast to Bournemouth and on to Weymouth, the rear portion calling all stations.



On the West of England services it's a different story. Many trains longer than 3 coaches will divide at Salisbury to drop off the rear coaches, and some of them have a second portion which goes onto Bristol.
 
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Carntyne

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Splitting/joining services you run the risk of spreading delays across several routes when things are disrupted. It's not difficult, just not always the best option.
 

Closet2405

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I remember a while ago (probably around 3 years) I was on a TPE service from Edinburgh to Manchester and back. This joined a service going south and divided going north, in both cases I think it was at Carlisle. My memory of it is quite vague but I believe the service we joined/separated from was a Blackpool servkce.
 

Traveller54

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I remember a while ago (probably around 3 years) I was on a TPE service from Edinburgh to Manchester and back. This joined a service going south and divided going north, in both cases I think it was at Carlisle. My memory of it is quite vague but I believe the service we joined/separated from was a Blackpool servkce.
And longer ago, in BR days I'm sure there was a Edinburgh to Manchester service which joined a Glasgow to Liverpool train at Carstairs and was separated at Preston, I think.
 

PHILIPE

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And longer ago, in BR days I'm sure there was a Edinburgh to Manchester service which joined a Glasgow to Liverpool train at Carstairs and was separated at Preston, I think.

Cross Country trains from many places used to divide/combine at Carstairs for Glasgow and Edinburgh, notably from the West of England and Poole.
 

najaB

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I remember a while ago (probably around 3 years) I was on a TPE service from Edinburgh to Manchester and back. This joined a service going south and divided going north, in both cases I think it was at Carlisle. My memory of it is quite vague but I believe the service we joined/separated from was a Blackpool servkce.
The Glasgow and Edinburgh to Manchester Airport services used to be formed of 185s that joined, as you said, at Carlisle or sometimes Preston. It wasn't uncommon for the five minute stop to end up being ten minutes when one portion was delayed.
 

Millisle

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And longer ago, in BR days I'm sure there was a Edinburgh to Manchester service which joined a Glasgow to Liverpool train at Carstairs and was separated at Preston, I think.

Yes, to my far off 1980s recollections I think that almost the only Anglo-Scottish WCML services that did not combine Edinburgh/Glasgow portions at Carstairs were Glasgow-London. It was a popular practice to do some wheel-tapping to pass the time. Generally there was some alarmed surprise from the inexperienced travellers when the Edinburgh portion appeared to head off back the way it came. A Mk1 BCK was kept in the lyes at Carstairs in case one of the northbound brakes had been or had to be stopped, as the Edinburgh was technically a new service and so could not have been started without brake.
 

randyrippley

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On the West of England services it's a different story. Many trains longer than 3 coaches will divide at Salisbury to drop off the rear coaches, and some of them have a second portion which goes onto Bristol.

And during the reign of the Warships extra coaches were always added/removed at Salisbury at the London end of the set. When the Hymeks substituted it must have been quite a struggle. Were the Hymeks used on 12 coach sets anywhere else?
 

route101

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Yes, to my far off 1980s recollections I think that almost the only Anglo-Scottish WCML services that did not combine Edinburgh/Glasgow portions at Carstairs were Glasgow-London. It was a popular practice to do some wheel-tapping to pass the time. Generally there was some alarmed surprise from the inexperienced travellers when the Edinburgh portion appeared to head off back the way it came. A Mk1 BCK was kept in the lyes at Carstairs in case one of the northbound brakes had been or had to be stopped, as the Edinburgh was technically a new service and so could not have been started without brake.

Wheel Tapping ! I notice they do that in Eastern Europe . Do they still do that here ?
 
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