Serious electric power problems between Birmingham and Coventry (05/04)

[All Line Rover]

What did LM provide for Birmingham to Northampton passengers?

 

[Railman10]

It's a long time since I travelled on a Chiltern train that was anywhere near empty!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And New Street is in chaos again today (Mon 11/4) with a major signalling power failure affecting the south end.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-36012618

 

[gavin]

Started at around 4am

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/major-disruption-at-birmingham-new-street

 

[Class 66's]

DC track circuits in AC electrified areas, and vice versa.

What about in places where units operate on both AC and DC supplies?

 

[NSEFAN]

What about in places where units operate on both AC and DC supplies?

I would imagine axle counters are the modern solution, with track circuit based systems having to switch depending on what kind of traction is in use?

Thankfully we don't have very long dual electrification systems, they're only just long enough to permit traction changeover.

 

[najaB]

What about in places where units operate on both AC and DC supplies?

Axel counters or *very* carefully worked out immunisation measures.

 

[edwin_m]

DC track circuits in AC electrified areas, and vice versa.

This was the traditional answer, with oddities like 83.3333Hz in dual electrified areas as this is far enough from 50Hz not to be affected by it. However, simple AC track circuits of whatever frequency are also potentially susceptible to interference from traction inverter drives or other sources. Modern track circuits use a combination of frequencies to make it less likely they will be affected by interference, and tend to be useable with any electrification system.

 

[absolutelymilk]

And New Street is in chaos again today (Mon 11/4) with a major signalling power failure affecting the south end.

"Vandalism suspected cause rail disruption at Birmingham New Street"

Network Rail now saying that they suspect it was caused by vandalism.

 

[gavin]

From the New street twitter page

 

[nottinghamcity]

From that photograph alone, it is a difficult conclusion that it is deliberate interference. The damage is consistent with a fault on the larger (3ph power?) cable, with a resulting flashover damaging it's neighbours.

 

[Marklund]

What about in places where units operate on both AC and DC supplies?

HVI Track Circuits.

 

[QueensCurve]

From that photograph alone, it is a difficult conclusion that it is deliberate interference. The damage is consistent with a fault on the larger (3ph power?) cable, with a resulting flashover damaging it's neighbours.

That was my reaction too.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

NR followed up their initial tweets by saying that there were obvious signs of slashing to the cables that were not clear on the photos.

 

[QueensCurve]

NR followed up their initial tweets by saying that there were obvious signs of slashing to the cables that were not clear on the photos.

What kind of a dimwhit slashes a 3phase (415v?) cable?

 

[dgl]

What kind of a dimwhit slashes a 3phase (415v?) cable?

Dimwit? More like natural selection .

I suppose your typical dimwitted opportunistic thief won't be able to tell the difference between LV multicore signalling cable and thick high voltage/amperage 415V mains cable.

 

[zuriblue]

Dimwit? More like natural selection .

I suppose your typical dimwitted opportunistic thief won't be able to tell the difference between LV multicore signalling cable and thick high voltage/amperage 415V mains cable.

Could be worse. I was commissioning some kit on a cement plant and some tealeaf decided to steal some 11kV cable. He threw an axe from a safe distance to trip the breaker, the whole plant ended up shutting down.

The operator told me the last time someone tried it he tried to cut the (live 11kV) cable with a hacksaw. As you can imagine that didn't end well.:roll: (he did survive but spent a long time in hospital then a longer time as a guest of Her Majesty.

 

[Marklund]

What kind of a dimwhit slashes a 3phase (415v?) cable?

Signalling power supplies are 650v single phase.
(Other supplies are used, but power schemes generally use 650)

 

[Elecman]

Signalling power supplies are 650v single phase.
(Other supplies are used, but power schemes generally use 650)

The modern standard is fully insulated 400 volt 3 phase supplies as the ORR are having reservations about un earthed 650 IT signalling supplies.

 

[Marklund]

The modern standard is fully insulated 400 volt 3 phase supplies as the ORR are having reservations about un earthed 650 IT signalling supplies.

Is it? Just shows how modern the stuff I have to fix is!
Bring back dry cells!

 

[edwin_m]

Bring back dry cells!

Why, did they steal those as well?

 

[moggie]

The modern standard is fully insulated 400 volt 3 phase supplies as the ORR are having reservations about un earthed 650 IT signalling supplies.

It might be but not there........or it wasn't last time I checked. 650v AC single phase. A bit further south on WCML it is indeed 3 phase.

 

[Stampy]

Signalling power supplies are 650v single phase.
(Other supplies are used, but power schemes generally use 650)

That might have been what was under the tarpaulin when I passed Chinley last year on the train back from Manchester to Nottingham - after being held up for 30 minutes near the Swizzles Matlow factory near New Mills due to trespassers on the line.

We were told the delay was also due to Chinley Signal Box losing all it's signals due to a power blackout...

However, once moving nearer to Chinley itself, we passed a signal cabin with a spade sticking out of it....
Near to it was a tarpaulin covering something - with a police car next to it and a "copper" taking photos...


Serves the bugger right.

 

[notlob.divad]

The operator told me the last time someone tried it he tried to cut the (live 11kV) cable with a hacksaw. As you can imagine that didn't end well.:roll: (he did survive but spent a long time in hospital then a longer time as a guest of Her Majesty.

That happened at the entrance to one of our sites about 15-20 years ago. The guy who did it was apparently thrown through the door of the local boozer still smoldering buy his two mates, who then legged it in their van. I don't believe the guy survived, and I equally don't know if the other two where caught.

 

[AndyPJG]

Cable theft incident 29 March
BBC News item

Man arrested over Caldercote signalling cable theft
A man has been arrested after signalling cable was stolen causing major rail disruption in and around Birmingham.
Fifty-nine trains were cancelled when eight metres of cabling was stolen on 29 March near Caldecote.
It caused delays of more than 19 hours at Birmingham New Street station, said British Transport Police.
A 29-year-old man from Nuneaton arrested on suspicion of theft has been released on bail.
Det Insp Gareth Davies from BTP said: "Our investigation into this theft is ongoing and we are still interested in hearing from anyone with any information about what happened."