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Service charges added to bills

najaB

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A slimy explanation I once heard from an American PR bod was that businesses actually do this as a service to their customers, so there is transparency in how much sales tax you're paying and an informed public can then hold their politicians to account.
Interestingly, I had exactly this conversation with a US work colleague two days ago and she gave that same reason - making taxes clear - as the reason. Though, she went on to explain that this is actually useful because of differing rates of state and municipal taxes.

They often vote with their feet (well, their cars) and travel out of town or state when the price differences are enough to make it worth it.
 
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LowLevel

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I don't pay service charges in wet pubs. If I have a good time in a decent pub with a friendly bod behind the bar then I will sometimes do the time honoured British thing and ask them to have a drink with us and put one on the till for them in the last round, if they want it.

In a restaurant setting I don't mind a set service charge provided it's gone well, especially with a large group where they might be running around like idiots keeping everyone happy.

My dad has always been one to leave a decent tip for good service regardless though and I have always followed through with that - I appreciate people making an effort to make sure I enjoy myself, or providing particularly good food/drink etc.

I recently went to a restaurant with the modern trend for an open kitchen you can see from the dining area, had some great food and pleasant service, left a tip and on the way out said thanks to the person nearest the open bit in the kitchen. The whole kitchen staff waved and said bye and looked like they meant it - that mind of thing makes you feel really welcome.
 

GRALISTAIR

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There is an (independent, I think) coffee stall in a Glasgow station at which, when paying by contactless, customers are asked how much tip they would like to leave. This is solely a takeaway operation, not an at-seat service! I'm afraid I don't believe that an additional charge for service, even if voluntary, is at all justified in such circumstances.
I totally agree
 

gg1

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The one and only time I was making a booking and was told I needed to pay a per-head deposit of $30 (£15), I said "Nah. Forget it, mate!" and hung up. Luckily, this initiative seems to have died a quick and quiet death, and I only know of one place that still tries this on.
Was it a large booking? IME this is commonplace in in Britain when booking for groups of around 10 or greater.

If they asked the same for a small booking my reaction would have been the same as yours.
 

najaB

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Was it a large booking? IME this is commonplace in in Britain when booking for groups of around 10 or greater.
Also very common around busy periods like the run-up to Christmas.
 

dangie

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I've been in several joints where there have been "Reserved" tables nearby set for reasonably-sized parties, and no-one turned up all evening.
If those who had booked a table for ‘x’ time hadn’t turned up after say 10/15 minutes or 30 minutes max depending on how busy it was, without informing the restaurant they would be late, their reservation should be cancelled and table offered to someone else.
 

najaB

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If those who had booked a table for ‘x’ time hadn’t turned up after say 10/15 minutes or 30 minutes max depending on how busy it was, without informing the restaurant they would be late, their reservation should be cancelled and table offered to someone else
That's usually what happens - most restaurants will only hold a reservation for 30 minutes max. But they still have the issue that they've possibly turned away several customers, and it's now 30 minutes (more like 45 if they had to move tables together) past what was likely to busiest period for walk-ins.

I've also known restaurants to bring in extra staff, or promise people extra hours when they have a big booking.
 

Springs Branch

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Was it a large booking? IME this is commonplace in in Britain when booking for groups of around 10 or greater.

If they asked the same for a small booking my reaction would have been the same as yours.
Three diners. Me, my wife and her sister. We had every intention of going, and would always phone in the rare event we had to cancel. But $90 up front before we stepped in the door? Don’t think so!
 

Ianigsy

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I think a better reason for not displaying the gross prices in the USA is simply because the sales tax rates differ, between different towns in the same state even, whereas in many countries the gross price are the same nationwide because the tax rates are set by central government. You could argue that "technology" could be used in the USA to display the gross prices, but now that just about everyone is accustomed to the way of doing it there's no great demand.
And it doesn’t take that long to get used to mentally adding another 10-15% before you get to the checkou.
 

zero

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Interesting the different ways businesses around the world find to fleece their mug punters customers.

In Australia, this sleight-of-hand 'discretionary service charge' has not appeared (yet). But we do have more and more businesses adding a 'card processing fee' for using debit and credit cards (Aussies are enthusiastic adopters of contactless and smartphone payments, so most mainstream transactions are done this way).

When this first came in, IIRC the surcharge was a trivial 0.85%. It's now morphed to typically 1.6-1.7% for Visa & M/card (more for 'vanity' cards like Amex) - still relatively small, unless you're paying hundreds of dollars for something, but I fully expect it to quietly slip north of 3% in the next year or two.

This is only because the government regulator decided, in their wisdom, to allow businesses to pass on their "actual" card processing fees. This means there is no longer an incentive for businesses to negotiate lower card acceptance fees with their banks.

More and more shops have installed card terminals which add a surcharge after business enters the amount to be paid, so the business doesn't even need to consider it - they just put up a sign saying "there may be a surcharge". You don't actually know how much it will be until after paying. I believe this is not strictly legal (neither is having a card surcharge when you don't accept cash or another way to pay without fees, but the regulator isn't doing anything about it).

However the majority of establishments still accept cash, but it is rare to see cash being used, so it appears most people are happy to pay a potentially unknown fee of up to 2% for 'convenience'.

The worse thing in Australia is the increasing prevalence of the weekend / public holiday / school holiday surcharge of up to 25%. Just print a different menu with the higher prices for holidays!

Again there is no shortage of people queuing up at restaurants when these surcharges are in effect, so they seem to be here to stay.
 

Springs Branch

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. . . I just hope that when these service charges are automatically added that at least a percentage of this goes to the people who have been serving us as let's be totally honest here, if I've gone out with a group of friends and we've enjoyed nice food and drinks comma the people serving us have sacrificed their own social lives in order to allow us to have fun
One thing I've never got my head around in recent years is - when tips and service charges are added directly onto a single card or contactless transaction - how confident can you be that more-or-less the sum you're giving will go to those who actually delivered the service?

Back in the days of cash tips, you would know your £ note(s) or dollar bill(s) would go directly into your waiter or barperson's pocket, or at least into a kitty behind the bar for dividing up at the end of the shift.

Now that it's all rolled into one amorphous transaction, how does the serving staff at the coal face get paid their 'just desserts'?

In the case of big chains, the electronic funds likely get pinged straight to BigCorp Inc.'s HQ in Luxembourg or Ireland - and good luck getting a penny back from them. And even among smaller, independent businesses, there are probably as many rapacious operators as nice, fair owners who treat their staff like family.

I usually try to use @jfollows's approach in #14 - pay the main bill by card sans service & have some cash on hand to leave as a tip.

Maybe someone working in the hospitality trade can enlighten me on how this generally works these days.
 

davews

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I don't normally leave a cash tip after a pub meal but might in a restaurant. Even pubs often add a hidden one on the bill, I tend to pay the bill as it is rather than getting into arguments.

As to late arrival for a booking, I remember back in the lockdown days when it was suggested booking was needed. So on one of my walks I pre-booked into a pub near London Bridge. Got a bit lost on my walk, together with train delays, so arrived about an hour after my booking. Outside seating then, they had given my table away as expected but 'we can find a table for you sir'. Right at the end of the outside area beyond the covered area, and probably the windiest spot in London right by the river. They didn't get a tip!
 

najaB

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Maybe someone working in the hospitality trade can enlighten me on how this generally works these days.
I don't work in hospitality, but I have friends who do. It's a bit of a mishmash how service charges paid by card are handled.

As you expect, if the charge is included in the bill and you pay the whole amount as a single transaction then it's entirely up to the business to decide how they split it out, as there is no "paper trail" so to speak.

If the card machine asks you (the patron) to choose to add a tip then they will show up as separate entries on the card machine ledger. Most businesses will pass those on to staff. (Whether this is out of kindness, or because they know that anyone with a supervisor code can check the amounts for themselves is left as an exercise for the reader.)
 

Ostrich

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If there is a service charge, this fact, along with the amount, should be made clear (ideally on their website and at the door and on the menus) well in advance.

I think that would be a pub which would never get my custom again.
A local, free-house country pub which we've used every couple of months or so for lunch for years suddenly introduced a service charge just after the Covid restrictions lifted, and Yorkie, there was absolutely no mention of it anywhere on their website (I subsequently checked) or on their menus or blackboard. I was surprised when the charge for two main courses and two coffees came in at over £40, but didn't have the gumption to query it before paying. Mea culpa. It wasn't until I was sat in the car and inspected the bill that I realised what they had done.

My philosophy has always been: don't get mad, get even. That pub has never been visited again - entirely their loss for not being upfront about the charge.
 

Bevan Price

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Personally I think it should be a legal requirement that any price list, menu or advert, etc., should display the exact amount that you will be charged. "Hidden extras" charges should be banned.
 

najaB

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Personally I think it should be a legal requirement that any price list, menu or advert, etc., should display the exact amount that you will be charged. "Hidden extras" charges should be banned.
Isn't that already the case? AFAIK, you are under no obligation to pay any charge that isn't clearly displayed.
 

Gemz91

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Can think of a few pubs, that when buying a drink at the bar and paying by card the card machine comes up with

“Add £x service charge, press green for yes, red for no”.

Been happening probably since COVID restrictions ended. Bar staff quite often lean over and press cancel before you have the chance to see it.

Just like petrol stations asking if you want to add a charity donation.
 

jon81uk

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This is only because the government regulator decided, in their wisdom, to allow businesses to pass on their "actual" card processing fees. This means there is no longer an incentive for businesses to negotiate lower card acceptance fees with their banks.

More and more shops have installed card terminals which add a surcharge after business enters the amount to be paid, so the business doesn't even need to consider it - they just put up a sign saying "there may be a surcharge". You don't actually know how much it will be until after paying. I believe this is not strictly legal (neither is having a card surcharge when you don't accept cash or another way to pay without fees, but the regulator isn't doing anything about it).

However the majority of establishments still accept cash, but it is rare to see cash being used, so it appears most people are happy to pay a potentially unknown fee of up to 2% for 'convenience'.

The worse thing in Australia is the increasing prevalence of the weekend / public holiday / school holiday surcharge of up to 25%. Just print a different menu with the higher prices for holidays!

Again there is no shortage of people queuing up at restaurants when these surcharges are in effect, so they seem to be here to stay.
Another EU benefit that has stayed around in the UK, card fees cannot be passed on to customers.
On the weekend surcharge thing, it seems more common in the UK for places to offer deals and offers on weekdays, so it might be 30% off Monday to Wednesday in the quieter months, instead of increasing prices at the weekend.


Back in the days of cash tips, you would know your £ note(s) or dollar bill(s) would go directly into your waiter or barperson's pocket, or at least into a kitty behind the bar for dividing up at the end of the shift.

Now that it's all rolled into one amorphous transaction, how does the serving staff at the coal face get paid their 'just desserts'?

In the case of big chains, the electronic funds likely get pinged straight to BigCorp Inc.'s HQ in Luxembourg or Ireland - and good luck getting a penny back from them. And even among smaller, independent businesses, there are probably as many rapacious operators as nice, fair owners who treat their staff like family.

I worked somewhere 15-20 years ago where cash tips had to be entered into the till and were then split out between the team and paid in wages so PAYE tax could be applied. This was done for three reasons, ensure staff aren't carrying cash round on the shopfloor as it could be seen as theft, split out the tips more fairly as it wasn't always one person doing all the work and to ensure HMRC are happy as they are then properly declared for tax.
 

SargeNpton

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In many countries, service charges are not added and tips are not expected; it's a shame the UK isn't one of those! However, it could be worse; the US is absolutely terrible in this regard.
Some parts of Canada are even worse (British Columbia in my limited experience). Get the bill, add the sale tax, add the liquor tax, then add the service charge.
 

ChrisC

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I thought I would ask a question related to tipping whilst this thread is active.

When staying in a hotel what do people usually do concerning tips when having a meal in the hotel restaurant. Is there any etiquette for this? I never really know what is expected if I am staying in a hotel for a few nights and if I decide to have an evening meal in the hotel restaurant. Sometimes the cost of the meal may be included in the room rate or you may be charging the meal to your room number to pay with your bill on departure. There are also occasions when it is just easier to pay as you go for the meals. Is it expected that guests staying in a hotel should leave a tip? If I have been staying more than one night and had evening meals, if the service has been very good I have just left a more substantial tip in cash on my last night.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Service charge automatically added is a rather mean trick conceptualised to draw on people's social anxieties; many people feel uncomfortable or nervous asking for a service charge to be removed and that's exactly why its applied beforehand.
 

David Burrows

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Why should some industries, such as restraurants, hairdressers etc, expect people to give tips? Surely we should expect to be treated properly by people doing their jobs as normal. We don't tip bus drivers for getting us to our destination in one piece despite traffic problems or train drivers for getting us to our destination on time despitesignal delays, so why tip anyone for doing their job properly.

We should pay less if the service provided is of a lower quality than be are entitled to expect.
 

najaB

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Surely we should expect to be treated properly by people doing their jobs as normal. We don't tip bus drivers for getting us to our destination in one piece despite traffic problems or train drivers for getting us to our destination on time despitesignal delays, so why tip anyone for doing their job properly.
In theory, the tip is in reward for providing more than just what you're paying for. Taking dining in a restaurant as an example, a server could provide the minimum level of service without ever speaking to you. Show you to your table, hand you the menu, wait until you order, bring the food, bring the bill.

Technically, everything above and beyond that - making small talk, recommendations, checking if you need refills before you ask for them is above and beyond and that's what service charge covers.

As others have said, there is no obligation to pay a non-mandatory service charge if you don't feel that its deserved.
 

GB

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Technically, everything above and beyond that - making small talk, recommendations, checking if you need refills before you ask for them is above and beyond and that's what service charge covers.
Is it? I'd say that's just being good at ones job....the reward for which is generally continued employment.
 

najaB

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Is it? I'd say that's just being good at ones job....the reward for which is generally continued employment.
Nope. The actual job of wait staff is to take orders and bring the food:

a man whose job is to bring the food to customers at their tables in a restaurant. Compare waitress

I agree that a good waiter/waitress will do more than that but, unless it's specifically included in their job description, it's not part of the definition of the job.
 

Trackman

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Is it expected that guests staying in a hotel should leave a tip? If I have been staying more than one night and had evening meals, if the service has been very good I have just left a more substantial tip in cash on my last night.
I do, usually, not just a pound if everything is up to scratch. I've left bottles of wine and the such. I leave it for the housekeepers with a note so they know it's for them.
 

Senex

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Why should some industries, such as restraurants, hairdressers etc, expect people to give tips? Surely we should expect to be treated properly by people doing their jobs as normal. We don't tip bus drivers for getting us to our destination in one piece despite traffic problems or train drivers for getting us to our destination on time despitesignal delays, so why tip anyone for doing their job properly.

We should pay less if the service provided is of a lower quality than be are entitled to expect.
That's the question I'd like to ask too. In a good many shops, be it a chemist, and ironmonger, or the local Tesco, I often get far more attentive and personal service than in many restaurants (thinking especially of places like the local one recently opened where the service-charge is automatically on the bill even for just bringing a cup of coffee). How did the habit grow up of some people expecting to get extra for just doing their job and others offering equally personal service not? And at what level does it stop? Why never any question of a tip for your GP or your s?olicitor
 

GB

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Nope. The actual job of wait staff is to take orders and bring the food:



I agree that a good waiter/waitress will do more than that but, unless it's specifically included in their job description, it's not part of the definition of the job.

A job description or a job definition is not going to cover every nuance of said job.
 

GusB

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Is it? I'd say that's just being good at ones job....the reward for which is generally continued employment.
It's all about expectations. I expect good service wherever I shop/eat/whatever. However, occasionally someone will stand out as having gone above and beyond what I would normally expect and it is in cases such as this when I'll leave a good tip or consider contacting the establishment to put in a good word. Quite often companies have a reward scheme whereby any favourable comments about an employee will result in a small reward. It's a morale booster, especially in a place where you're constantly dealing with difficult customers.

"Not being fired" is hardly a reward and, if I'm being honest, it comes across as rather mean!

Maybe companies should start tipping good customers by means of a discount for good behaviour, and let the moaning minnies pay full whack! :p
 

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