Settlement of £1,433 for travelling with an out of date railcard

[LouRf]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-due-to-expired-railcard-help-please.224407/

Similar situation as my student daughter did similar , forgot to renew 16-25 railcard on lockdown and offered to pay when her ticket was checked .
She got the letter fr TIL and replied,
with apology and explaining her actions, renewed her railcard immediately.
TIL have sent a request to settle it out of court for £1,433 for admin fees ! no breakdown of the figure .

 

[Gloster]

Similar situation as my student daughter did similar , forgot to renew 16-25 railcard on lockdown and offered to pay when her ticket was checked .
She got the letter fr TIL and replied,
with apology and explaining her actions, renewed her railcard immediately.
TIL have sent a request to settle it out of court for £1,433 for admin fees ! no breakdown of the figure .

If your figure of £1,433 is correct and not a typing mistake, I suggest you get the mods to move your post to a new and separate thread. In fact, it probably is best to start a new thread entirely: no two problems are exactly the same and advice can get confused if two problems are on the same thread.

 

[LouRf]

If your figure of £1,433 is correct and not a typing mistake, I suggest you get the mods to move your post to a new and separate thread. In fact, it probably is best to start a new thread entirely: no two problems are exactly the same and advice can get confused if two problems are on the same thread.

Hi Gloster
Yes this is correct .
she probably booked one other return and one single trip , *before the day in question (which was the first date that she realised her mistake in not renewing it)

 

[trenopendo]

Similar situation as my student daughter did similar , forgot to renew 16-25 railcard on lockdown and offered to pay when her ticket was checked .
She got the letter fr TIL and replied,
with apology and explaining her actions, renewed her railcard immediately.
TIL have sent a request to settle it out of court for £1,433 for admin fees ! no breakdown of the figure .

I find it difficult to imagine a letter from TIL asking for 1,433 GBP.

That said, can you upload the aforementioned letter and censor any personal information?

 

[Haywain]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-due-to-expired-railcard-help-please.224407/

Similar situation as my student daughter did similar , forgot to renew 16-25 railcard on lockdown and offered to pay when her ticket was checked .
She got the letter fr TIL and replied,
with apology and explaining her actions, renewed her railcard immediately.
TIL have sent a request to settle it out of court for £1,433 for admin fees ! no breakdown of the figure .

Just how far out of date was the railcard?

 

[Llanigraham]

Just how far out of date was the railcard?

And what was the journey being made?
At present there is not enough details given to make an adequate response.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is it possible that the investigations team have trawled through the OP's daughter's ticket purchasing history and determined multiple discounted ticket useage after her railcard is known to have expired?

 

[LouRf]

Hi
her railcard expired Sept '20.
She got stopped on the train in June '21. Thats when she realised and renewed it the day after.
She offered to pay full fare to the ticket inspector, realising in the moment.
Other than that day she made one other return ticket purchase in May a trip home from uni, without realising

 

[LouRf]

She was rarely travelling because of lockdown and before May trip spent 5 months in University flat, because of the numbers of students/household rules .

 

[malc-c]

Is it possible that the investigations team have trawled through the OP's daughter's ticket purchasing history and determined multiple discounted ticket useage after her railcard is known to have expired?

This was my first thought. In the post this was split form the admin fee / fine was £115. For this to be £1433 there has to be more to this than the OP is letting on.

 

[LouRf]

There is nothing more to add. I think she was frightened and didnt explain self to guard maybe. But he took her name ie he may have assumed she never had a railcard. She did but said 'no' as she had realised it was out of date

She renewed the railcard day after inspector checked her in June.

Prior to this she made one Return ticket purchase in May , at which point she had been unaware.
She admitted her mistake and apologised and accepts she will pay a penalty . But she always buys a ticket and isnt a fare dodger ever , quite honest and it was unfortunate during pandemic this got overlooked for obvious reasons she wasnt allowed to go anywhere.

 

[trenopendo]

That said, can you upload the aforementioned letter and censor any personal information?

Can you upload the letter, censoring private information?

This can offer some insights about the figure you quote.

Please upload the letter and we take it from there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was genuinely only one incident, £1433 sounds oddly high, like they suspect many fares have been evaded. It is typically around £80-100 per incident of evasion plus fares evaded on an Anytime (Day) Single basis.

I would be inclined to involve a solicitor rather than paying one that high unless it is known that about 10 to 15 fares have in fact been evaded.

 

[LouRf]

If it was genuinely only one incident, £1433 sounds oddly high, like they suspect many fares have been evaded. It is typically around £80-100 per incident of evasion plus fares evaded on an Anytime (Day) Single basis.

I would be inclined to involve a solicitor rather than paying one that high unless it is known that about 10 to 15 fares have in fact been evaded.

Thanks. No due to lockdown she is double checking but its about one Return trip prior to the day of incident. It was lockdown and railcard only used on intercity trip home. So its easy to check this.

 

[malc-c]

Without knowing the time frame, it may be worth telephoning any number given on the letter or writing to them asking them how that came to that amount. It does seem extortionary high. As others have said, and reading through similar posts where it was just the one occasion, the amount requested have been circa £100. The amount sought in this case would suggest the TOC suspect there have been multiple occasions where fares are owed.

As suggested it may be worth seeking legal advice

 

[LouRf]

Thank you all for the advice . i will pass it on. I dont have the letter if i get it I can

 

[Llanigraham]

I note that we still haven't been told what the journey was and that is critical information before a correct response can be given.

 

[Elecman]

If your figure of £1,433 is correct and not a typing mistake, I suggest you get the mods to move your post to a new and separate thread. In fact, it probably is best to start a new thread entirely: no two problems are exactly the same and advice can get confused if two problems are on the same thread.

I wonder if that is a typo and it should be. £143.30

 

[Gloster]

I wonder if that is a typo and it should be. £143.30

I believe not. There was another post by the OP that disappeared in the creation of the new thread that confirmed that the figure was correct, if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Sorry, I think it is still there as #3.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could have been a typing error by whoever typed the letter, of course.

 

[Bertie the bus]

As the figure is so outrageously high I would suggest the OP contacts TIL and queries it rather than asking for advice from some (well meaning) strangers on the internet who can only guess why £1433 has been requested.

 

[LouRf]

yes querying it, but was interested to know what people thought the best approach was due to the extortionate sum rather than play into 'its for administrative costs as a result of your failure to abide by rules' being repeated

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the figure is so outrageously high I would suggest the OP contacts TIL and queries it rather than asking for advice from some (well meaning) strangers on the internet who can only guess why £1433 has been requested.

Unless the letter indicates they believe there have been repeat offences, I am highly inclined to think it is a typo, with 3 having been pressed twice, or 4 caught when typing the first 3 or vice veras.

What is the fare evaded? If it is either £43 or £33, this seems very likely; the most common figure these days is £100 plus that. If you don't know, you presumably know what the journey was and can look it up on e.g. brfares.com. It would usually be the Anytime (Day) Single but could be another single fare.

 

[MikeWh]

There is nothing more to add.

I'm sorry, there is plenty more to add. You have been asked to provide details of the journey being undertaken. If you can't do this then there is little more advice that we can give and we'll be inclined to lock the thread.

 

[Cdd89]

It could have been a typing error by whoever typed the letter, of course.

The exact content of the letter, and whether commas in the figure are 1) present, and 2) in the right place, might help there.

 

[LouRf]

Hi,
Its Chiltern Line Marylebone to Leamington (or other way)
For cost, she made a single ticket booking in January £6.40 and a return booking May £21.80. the return part of the second booking (3w later in early June) was when the inspector checked and she realised her student railcard was out of date .Between Jan and May she did not travel at all.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

her railcard expired Sept '20.

Were any incorrectly discounted tickets purchased/used between then and end December 2020/early January 2021?

 

[najaB]

Unless the letter indicates they believe there have been repeat offences, I am highly inclined to think it is a typo, with 3 having been pressed twice, or 4 caught when typing the first 3 or vice veras.

I don't see how it could be anything other than a typo or a clerical error with the details of two cases being transposed.

 

[RPI]

If the figure is correct then I expect TIL have obtained the booking history of the person stopped and worked out how much is owed for previous railcard discounted journeys between the expiry date of the railcard and the date of the incident.

 

[najaB]

If the figure is correct then I expect TIL have obtained the booking history of the person stopped and worked out how much is owed for previous railcard discounted journeys between the expiry date of the railcard and the date of the incident.

The OP has said twice that their daughter only made two journeys by rail since the card expired. Either (a) they are lying, (b) their daughter is lying to them; or (c) TIL have made a mistake.

Unless this is a deliberate wind-up we can discount (a). Only the OP knows the likelihood of (b). We all, unfortunately, know that (c) is not only possible, but probable.