Severe Weather in UK

[ANorthernGuard]

Now we have all heard about how bad the UK is doing regarding the weather etc. Rail/Road/Airports

BUT just a thought

The Weather boffins are predicting this may end up being the coldest Winter for over 100 Years, now we all feel that planning could be better etc.

BUT

As say in the North West Trains are on Average 20 years+ old (with not a hope in hell of getting new stock)

There is NEVER enough salt (for what the councils need costs can be extremely high) for roads to keep clear

And the snow is crippling the Airports Heathrow Gatwick have all been shut for periods of time

What would you do to keep things flowing

and remember there isn't an unlimited pot of funds (plenty of pot holes though) lol

Ideas?


1 last thought

We thought we were poor at dealing with this weather, seems the rest of Europe are running out of ideas too lol

 

[TheBigD]

TOC's could ensure that there traincrews have sufficient diversionary route knowledge for starters.

Preventative maintenance measure on their rolling stock as well.

Oh, and they really do need to sort out how to get accurate information to their frontline staff and passengers.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

TOC's could ensure that there traincrews have sufficient diversionary route knowledge for starters.

Preventative maintenance measure on their rolling stock as well.

Oh, and they really do need to sort out how to get accurate information to their frontline staff and passengers.

at Northern we have Blackberries which with the emails they send are alot better than the old text message system.

Diversionary route wise, the only one we really had was Alsager that soon fell by the wayside

and how many times can you fix a 142 lol (the heating never seems to work)

 

[chuckles1066]

We thought we were poor at dealing with this weather, seems the rest of Europe are running out of ideas too lol

I think the rest of Europe has struggled, the UK has simply thrown its hands up and surrendered.

"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" as a French girl at work mocked. It was hard to disagree.

I'm aiming that primarily at the aviation industry, the rail network (around here at least) hasn't done too badly if I may say so.

Instead of aviation bosses holding their "important" conferences in hot places, perhaps they could go up to Ivalo, at around this time of year, and watch how grown ups keep an airport open in -35C and 24hrs darkness.

 

[Greenback]

I believe there is a simple choice. Either we pay huge amounts of money to be as prepared as other countries allegedly are, or we simply change our attitudes and don't expect things to carry on as normal during the weather conditions we have had recently.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think the rest of Europe has struggled, the UK has simply thrown its hands up and surrendered.

"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" as a French girl at work mocked. It was hard to disagree.

I'm aiming that primarily at the aviation industry, the rail network (around here at least) hasn't done too badly if I may say so.

Instead of aviation bosses holding their "important" conferences in hot places, perhaps they could go up to Ivalo, at around this time of year, and watch how grown ups keep an airport open in -35C and 24hrs darkness.

But in fairness areas like that dont have temps ranging from 30+ down to Minus 10+ over the course of a year

 

[Pumbaa]

Its simple really - we have a small, antiquated system that is choking to capacity. It's going to have problems.

A good comparison was made with Helsinki and St Petersburg airports; both had 3 runways, a third of the passengers Heathrow/Gatwick etc have and around half the flights. Of course they're going to manage better!

 

[monkey]

...currently on the delayed 18:53 From Newcastle to Edinburgh (terminates at Aberdeen), was meant to be getting the direct one on due at 19:53, which was on time apparently, but then seemingly got swallowed up by blackhole due to the implausibility of it being so.

trains seem to be suffering from conditions, coach F has no heating, reservation system has gone out the window although not that it matters as its practically empty and joyously staff just announced they have got a toilet working in coach L as all others are on the blink....:roll:

edit: oh and its taken 35 minutes just to get to morpeth from newcastle... great... looks like its gonna be a looooong journey...

 

[ANorthernGuard]

...currently on the delayed 18:53 From Newcastle to Edinburgh (terminates at Aberdeen), was meant to be getting the direct one on due at 19:53, which was on time apparently, but then seemingly got swallowed up by blackhole due to the implausibility of it being so.

trains seem to be suffering from conditions, coach F has no heating, reservation system has gone out the window although not that it matters as its practically empty and joyously staff just announced they have got a toilet working in coach L as all others are on the blink....:roll:

train wise to be fair I don't think there is a train in the country designed to cope with on avg -10 temps for the length of time they have

 

[tbtc]

Its simple really - we have a small, antiquated system that is choking to capacity. It's going to have problems.

A good comparison was made with Helsinki and St Petersburg airports; both had 3 runways, a third of the passengers Heathrow/Gatwick etc have and around half the flights. Of course they're going to manage better!

THat's it.

We have no scope for "Plan B". there are no spare units, there are no spare paths. If one thing goes wrong, the whole thing comes collapsing down.

As I've said on another thread, the biggest easiest improvement would be to improve the information to passengers. Accept that we can't perform at 100% in bad weather, and concentrate on keeping people updated.

 

[fsmr]

There is also a lot more HSE rules and regs since the last major snow in 62/63
I cant imagine being able to hand dig a loco out on the network today with 100 men armed with no more than duffle coats and shovels although onnce the lines closed due to snow, then whart other choice will they have but to get the local gangmasters in with hired labour

I predict more issues on the ECML North of Peterborough to Newark and on the Cross country Peterborough to Leicester line for the Wednesday rush hour if the 20 cm of snow arrives in this area at 02-00 onwards as predicted by the met office

 

[ANorthernGuard]

THat's it.

We have no scope for "Plan B". there are no spare units, there are no spare paths. If one thing goes wrong, the whole thing comes collapsing down.

As I've said on another thread, the biggest easiest improvement would be to improve the information to passengers. Accept that we can't perform at 100% in bad weather, and concentrate on keeping people updated.

Information wise we had all the planned cancellations sent to our blackberries, which did come in handy for passengers, the main problem was at main stations (Like Mcr Piccadilly) all people got was cancelled on their destination (when the time was getting near)

 

[Failed Unit]

I hope that your messages are better than what the public get.

For example.
0730 Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk high cancelled poor weather conditions.
0730 Edinburgh - Glasgow this train is reinstated due to a train fault.

On the monitors at the station both trains were shown.

The train ran which was good but heading to the station was definately do you feel lucky punk.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I hope that your messages are better than what the public get.

For example.
0730 Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk high cancelled poor weather conditions.
0730 Edinburgh - Glasgow this train is reinstated due to a train fault.

On the monitors at the station both trains were shown.

The train ran which was good but heading to the station was definately do you feel lucky punk.

Northern had pre planned cancellations which were advertised, that enabled alot more organisation compared to some other TOC's who seem to have just kept their fingers crossed and hoped for the best

foe instance on my side of the pond I already knew there would be no Picc-Mcr Airports or Picc- Alderley Edge Services for lack of available stock and that was on their website, both routes were covered by other services (Crewe via Airport, Crewe Via Stockport), Tomorrow some Preston-Hazel Groves are cancelled But the above mentioned services are back to normal (Unless the weather goes ballistic again), we announced what would be cancelled etc to help pax decide what would be best for them

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

1) Train crews for other diversionary routes
2) Operate a small fleet of thunderbirds or the likes to keep us running during winter, leasing them out (esp for charters) in summer.
3) If weather is bad enough, operate a shuttle service between major stations, and work with other companies to accept tickets and alternative routes.
4) Make sure the public are well informed of what the situation is, putting staff on each station we operate to with frequent updates.

 

[The Planner]

Wheres that bloke gone who wanted to bring back the kettles ??

 

[tbtc]

Information wise we had all the planned cancellations sent to our blackberries, which did come in handy for passengers, the main problem was at main stations (Like Mcr Piccadilly) all people got was cancelled on their destination (when the time was getting near)

I think Northern have done better than most TOCs (obviously I've not sampled each TOC over the last couple of weeks).

I can understand not being able to run a 100% service in the conditions (even if some members of the public can't!), I just get frustrated when the actual level of service isn't well communicated. Sadly "Failed Unit"'s experience seems to be typical of some areas, where passengers are uncertain of what will be running (and sometimes staff aren't kept in the loop either).

As long as we know in advance what is expected to run and what won't, I don't think people can complain if the service isn't 100%.

We had almost a decade of mild winters (say 1997 - 2007 ish), so a lot of people forget how a bad winter disrupts things. Its a bit like being ill for the first time in ages and still trying to do everything you'd normally do - we should accept that weather means we can't have every single service running (and make sure people are made aware of what "plan B" will be.

 

[Wyvern]

Going back to the OP can we really go on using sand and salt on the roads at the rate we do?

Especially as I understand it's being brought all the way from South America.

So much for the environment!

In the harder winters of the old days the railways were the form of transport most likely to keep gong. Much of that ability has been lost, for a number of reasons, but perhaps this is a function we may be looking for them to fill in the future.

 

[YorkshireBear]

grit will one day run out, it also causes problems in drains and in weakening reinforced concrete.

no doubt the railways adaptability in snow really need to be included in the future design of any stock

 

[Greenback]

The whole way of life that has evolved over the past few decades, centralisation, long distance commuting etc will need to be looked at, alongside making what improvements we can to infrastructure.

Can we really try and continue defying nature, or should we adapt outselves to live alongside the weather cycles as best we can?

 

[YorkshireBear]

The whole way of life that has evolved over the past few decades, centralisation, long distance commuting etc will need to be looked at, alongside making what improvements we can to infrastructure.

Can we really try and continue defying nature, or should we adapt outselves to live alongside the weather cycles as best we can?

adapt..... theres no other way really we cant defy it cos it will just get stronger as it proves time and time again

 

[BlythPower]

Going back to the OP can we really go on using sand and salt on the roads at the rate we do?

Especially as I understand it's being brought all the way from South America.

So much for the environment!

Councils seem to think salt/grit is the be all and end all when it comes to snow and ice. They seem to forget that salt only lowers the freezing point of water. With the ultra low temperatures we've been having to only way to get snow off the roads is to shove it off. For some reason councils don't want to use ploughs - I can only guess because they're worried about scraping the road surface and having to find money for repairs... :roll:

 

[Greenback]

adapt..... theres no other way really we cant defy it cos it will just get stronger as it proves time and time again

Then we need to change our attitude to extreme weather. we need to accept that there will be disruption, that we should not make journeys that aren't essential (and that doesn't include a 20 mile round trip to our favourite supermarket!) and that we need to ensure that we ourselves are as prepared as we can be in terms of the ability to live for a week or more on what we have in the home, and that we have proper snow gear to wear if we do want to venture outside.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Councils seem to think salt/grit is the be all and end all when it comes to snow and ice. They seem to forget that salt only lowers the freezing point of water. With the ultra low temperatures we've been having to only way to get snow off the roads is to shove it off. For some reason councils don't want to use ploughs - I can only guess because they're worried about scraping the road surface and having to find money for repairs... :roll:

I think you are correct. I also think it;s pointless to try and keep roads open when more snow is falling or likely to fall. Wait until the weather brightens and then focus on getting things moving again.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Then we need to change our attitude to extreme weather. we need to accept that there will be disruption, that we should not make journeys that aren't essential (and that doesn't include a 20 mile round trip to our favourite supermarket!) and that we need to ensure that we ourselves are as prepared as we can be in terms of the ability to live for a week or more on what we have in the home, and that we have proper snow gear to wear if we do want to venture outside.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I think you are correct. I also think it;s pointless to try and keep roads open when more snow is falling or likely to fall. Wait until the weather brightens and then focus on getting things moving again.

i cant disagree with a word you just put in that post at all....

i encourage my parents to do the same and this year has been much better. When i get my degree and get out on myself i will make sure i always have a plan should something happen, that way it doesnt become such a stress.

when i say plan i mean like you say stuff to cope with snow enough food for a while.

i made an uneccesary journey yesterday, a day out to london from sheffield. But i had a Plan A,B,C,D,E,F and G so i knew i was alright. But alot of people dont even have a B (in some cases the railway too).

the problem is changing the attitude to extreme weather is that alot of people wont accept it. How many people do yo reckon would adapt?

 

[Greenback]

Yes, many people will not be happy at the thought of having to make adjustments or sacrifices. We have become far too used to living far away from our place of work, to going shopping in large out of town retail parks, or in city centres many miles away. Most of the time, this is beneficial to the way most people want to live their lives, but we need to acknowledge that the convenience lifestyle is not sustainable during spells of extreme weather!

Basically if they can't or won't adapt, they are going to have to try and travel, quite possibly getting stranded (or worse). They will still moan about it, but I think the expectation of our citizens and the emdia is going to have to change, and it should not be regarded as a national scandal if airports are closed because of snow!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes, many people will not be happy at the thought of having to make adjustments or sacrifices. We have become far too used to living far away from our place of work, to going shopping in large out of town retail parks, or in city centres many miles away. Most of the time, this is beneficial to the way most people want to live their lives, but we need to acknowledge that the convenience lifestyle is not sustainable during spells of extreme weather!

Basically if they can't or won't adapt, they are going to have to try and travel, quite possibly getting stranded (or worse). They will still moan about it, but I think the expectation of our citizens and the emdia is going to have to change, and it should not be regarded as a national scandal if airports are closed because of snow!

yeah exactly, but for me i walk to local shops anyway alot of time, its not difficult to live without some of our conveniences. A working year should have extreme weather written into it. Projects that run over christmas the same. Media, well my opinion on them is hardly rosy.

 

[chuckles1066]

But in fairness areas like that dont have temps ranging from 30+ down to Minus 10+ over the course of a year

Indeed, so surely that makes their role harder?

Keeping an airport open 24/7 where the temperature seldom gets above zero at any time during the year?

It would be interesting to know how railways in that part of the world fare.

 

[jon0844]

I've just taken another delivery of 'magic ice' remover, which doesn't damage metal or concrete. £25 for 25KG, which should last me a fair while for clearing the drive and decking at the back of the house.

I didn't fit snow tyres this year but intend buy/reserve them when we change car in the summer for next year. If more people fitted them, the snow we've had (which is nothing to what they've had in Scandinavia) wouldn't really be an issue at all - you can, almost, drive normally. I may also invest in some unsightly, but useful, studs for my shoes so I can walk on ungritted/cleared paths and basically carry on as if the weather isn't a major deal.

More people should be doing these things instead of moaning to the media about how the council won't clear everything and should somehow magic away the snow and ice!

If you do have to go somewhere, think of what can go wrong and how you might cope. What might you need to help you if stranded for a few hours, or more? A plan B is essential, and if the weather can change very quickly - assume the worst.

This cold weather could be with us for many more months yet.. a year or so ago I seem to recall we had snow (not much, mind) in May!

 

[Aictos]

JonMorris0844:

May I ask where did you place your order please?

Many Thanks

 

[Wolfie]

I know the media can misquote but at face value Robin Gisby has well and truely put his foot in it.....

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-as-rail-boss-says-network-is-working-well.do