she has bangladeshi. She can get one of their passports till she is 21. UK law you get UK citizenship by the nationality of your parents. If they had got UK citizenship, they would still have bangladeshi citizenship. A procedure in the UK cant affect their standing with a foreign state.
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Shamima Begum
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so we do protective custody. They did that in Nazi germany. We also tried it in Northern Ireland. Better to deport any people who are considered dangerous, if we can.
Those who went to ISIS chose to fight for a foreign state hostile to the UK. I would say they gained ISIS citizenship. So they can stay in ISIS territory.
Busaholic
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She hasn't 'got' Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh hadn't heard of her before the UK authorities contacted them. She may or may not be 'entitled' to such citizenship. Just imagine the outrage in this country if she'd been living in Bangladesh as one of their citizens, had gone to Syria to join ISIS, then announced she wanted to go back there, and the Bangladeshi government then said 'oh, we don't want her, we've discovered she's entitled to UK citizenship so they can have her.' Yep, all the same people here currently saying it's Bangladesh's problem would describe it as outrageous that Bangladesh was trying to palm her off onto us. Such hypocrisy! It's our 'problem', if indeed it is a problem, and we should be dealing with it. To think even two or three decades ago the UK had a deserved reputation for basically doing the right thing in International Law, now we're just tawdry and getting tawdrier as we wait 'to take back control'. Eyes roll emoji.
Esker-pades
Established Member
Did anyone else hear the interview with another young ex-British Muslim woman on radio 4 this morning? She was from a similar community and in a very similar position, but was lucky enough to escape to the USA after a spell in the middle east.
She explained how (even with UK access to education) a girl in her community is kept almost in a vacuum, unaware of the world, "schooled" to obey in the house, forced to marry someone that her parents have chosen, has children (staying in the house all the time,) becomes a grandmother and eventually dies. (Her words, if I have remembered them correctly.)
Shamima was probably looking for a wider (& maybe less repressive) family, in effect was groomed on-line and still hasn't a clue how the western world and media work.
I think she needs protection and care (and re-education) here so that she can get the benefits that she should have had after growing up in the UK, rather than being abandoned after our social and education systems failed to break into the introspective culture that kept her so isolated from the benefits which most of us understand that UK citizenship brings.
She explained how (even with UK access to education) a girl in her community is kept almost in a vacuum, unaware of the world, "schooled" to obey in the house, forced to marry someone that her parents have chosen, has children (staying in the house all the time,) becomes a grandmother and eventually dies. (Her words, if I have remembered them correctly.)
Shamima was probably looking for a wider (& maybe less repressive) family, in effect was groomed on-line and still hasn't a clue how the western world and media work.
I think she needs protection and care (and re-education) here so that she can get the benefits that she should have had after growing up in the UK, rather than being abandoned after our social and education systems failed to break into the introspective culture that kept her so isolated from the benefits which most of us understand that UK citizenship brings.
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Please Explain
Member
So if the UK "government" is now sanctioning breaking international law by making their own citizens "stateless" does that mean in theory I can get rid of my "citizenship" if I want too, simply by telling the UKBF - (or whatever their calling their self's these days) that I've just came from Iraq or Syria next time I show up at the checkpoint at Calais and get refused entry.
Have my "citizenship" revoked and thus becoming "stateless"?
Or was this girl just a special case to sell papers and make profit for Murdoch media??
Have my "citizenship" revoked and thus becoming "stateless"?
Or was this girl just a special case to sell papers and make profit for Murdoch media??
The amount of tin hat wearing amazes me.
If breaking international law is the answer, it's the answer.
This is an exceptional case involving a well known terrorist group. It's not going to lead to the UK randomly stripping people of their citizenship.
If any other country cries foul on us, we can suggest they take her instead of us.
I doubt any country would do so.
The law is the law until it isn't? Are there are another exceptions to the law we should be aware of?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
This country’s moral authority over degenerate groups like ISIS stems - first and foremost - from the fact we respect the law.
EM2
Established Member
Exceptional? There are thought to be over 400 ex-Da'esh members who have returned to the UK. Some have already been tried, imprisoned and released.
They still have British citizenship.
So why is this case exceptional?
WelshBluebird
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And so a shooting range in liverpool has been using pictures of her as target practice. Just further proof to me that lot of the hate filled rage about this sad story is nothing but semi hidden racism.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
and still no plan what to do with the kid.............................
Geezertronic
Established Member
As stupid as that is, the Government should already have a plan to deal with Terrorists/Terrorist Sympathisers but as usual none appears to exist and whilst normal people like us rant on a railway forum, others do stupid stuff like that. I bet May, Corbyn, and even Trump have found themselves on a target or two recently so I'd be reluctant to play the race card
It doesn't help when the noise from the Labour leader and the Shadow Home Secretary is essentially to welcome her back with open arms because she is a "victim" which she most certainly is not.
WelshBluebird
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Well it seems like they do. Break international law and wash their hands of the issue!
You know it is possible to be a victim of something but still to be at fault for events after that right?
She is certainly a victim here. Mainly of grooming, and for the lack of a better word, brainwashing. She was a child when she left the country. A child who was brainwashed by sick adults who wanted to use her for their own gain. But at the same time she is 100% guilty of her actions and comments since then.
I don't think most of us on the left are saying we should "welcome her back with open arms", more just this isn't as simple as "she's a terrorist, she should die" (which is what a lot on the far right are saying). She was groomed whilst in this country, surely we should take some responsibility for that as a society? We certainly don't blame children for being groomed online for other purposes - we blame the adults who did it and the society and adults that allowed it to happen. She should still be a British citizen (as it is illegal to make someone stateless like we have done), and she should face justice in a British court of law whilst getting the help that such a damaged young person obviously needs.
Geezertronic
Established Member
I think both you and I are in agreement that is, to put it politely, a stupid policy
I think we are also in agreement that all terrorists/terrorist sympathisers should be dealt with in a British court of law and suffer the consequences of their actions. Her views on the Manchester bombing won't have helped
I notice that a few countries appear to have their own who want to come back, and putting my tin foil hat on I wonder if there is an ulterior motive for all these who want to return...
Please Explain
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Geezertronic
Established Member
I hope your disgust also extends to the targets of Donald Trump and Justin Bieber who the company in question have also cited as being used. The race card does not obviously extend to them...
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
So, are you more disgusted at someone using an image of her for target practice or more disgusted on her views of the Manchester bombing ?
bussnapperwm
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I'll say one thing, if she was Russian, if they did let her back, she'd be shipped straight to the Gulag (or Siberia!)
Yeah but it's in the Wirral, not Liverpool.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Still close enough to the Manchester bombing for people to have an adverse reaction. You can fully understand why a girl goes off to follow a terrorist organisation but you can't understand why people in an area of the country where people have been murdered by that organisation may hold her as a figure of hate? Hypocritical double standards - it's attitudes like this 'offended' crap that push the mainstream ever further right wing.
Not offended. It's just not Liverpool. My girlfriend at the time was on her way to work when the IRA set off a bomb by the Arndale centre and it was pre mobile phone so I had a bit of a wait to find out she was alright. Got nothing against the Irish. No double standards, Wirral isn't Liverpool. Simple as that. How close to you have to live to somewhere to have an adverse reaction? It struck me as childish given hundreds of active combatants have already been allowed back.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are you honestly claiming that she already knew the person with whom you claim she eloped?
"There are thought..."
But no concrete numbers, and certainly no media coverage like this.
So you're saying the UK should welcome her back? Because you either will be happy to accept her back or not.
No.
But I struggle to understand why people think it's agreeable to allow someone to return, who rightly or wrongly left their own country to join another, that is widly known to project hate.
It's not about the UK heading down the same road, it's more looking like softies, which will eventually give terrorist groups cause to think they can almost "train" terrorists, then send them back to their own country to perform acts of terrorism.
It's a sad situation and if you'd personally be happy to pay the thousands of pounds a year for her upkeep, and allow her to live next door to you, that's all great. I'd rather my taxes go on another struggling adult who hasn't turned their back on their own country.
I'm out of this discussion now.
SteveP29
Member
I doubt whether anyone, regardless of political leaning is or would actually 'welcome her back'
Her family would, obvously
So what is your solution to the problem then?
EM2
Established Member
The UK should not 'welcome' her back. She should be allowed to return, arrested, interviewed, charged and tried if necessary, imprisoned if found guilty and put through a deradicalisation process while serving her sentence. As should anyone else in the same position.
This is, incidentally, how the Government proposed to deal with the issue in their advice last year. See post #44.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What would be the likelihood of one holding to such deep Islamic personal beliefs that led them to be a member of the modern Caliphate in the first place, despite being born and bred in England and being educated by the British education system, being unchanged in such deeply ingrained beliefs after such a de-radicalisation process?
It's a difficult one but the son of close family friends was extracated from a cult about 20 years ago and successfully rehabilitated.
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