LOL The Irony
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Well they are the Islamic STATE In Syria, so she has a state and can stay there.
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Shamima Begum
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Esker-pades
Established Member
By that logic, 935 West Webster Avenue, Chicago, IL is also a state. (Home of State Restaurant.)
http://www.state-chicago.com/
IS/ISIS/ISIL/Daesh are not recognised as a state by any sovereign state. That violates the one of the four critera that are required in order to be a Westphalian State.
(I think I've actually written an essay for some 6th form assignment on the question "Is Islamic State a state". It was a few years ago now so it's probably a complete load of rubbish.)
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Maybe, just maybe, if we had not allowed Salman Abedi back into the country then 22 innocent people would not have been murdered. He was 22 years old. No way should this terrorist (she is married to and worships a terrorist and belongs to a terrorist organisation) be allowed back into this country. The benefit of the doubt needs to shift from the bleeding heart allow anyone in if they tell a good enough tale to protecting the general populace. We can't afford to take the risk with a known terrorist.
Esker-pades
Established Member
That's a great emotive argument, but it has no basis in the rule of law. I am strongly pro the rule of law.
Spamcan81
Member
+1
I'm genuinely disgusted by the "hang her" attitude displayed by many in this thread. We are better than Daesh so let us show it by bringing her to justice.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I understand that there is international law but this person has committed treason and we have 2017 as reason enough to ignore it this one time. She should only come back if she is going to be locked away and forgotten about until an undertaker needs calling.
EM2
Established Member
And, once again, she cannot be imprisoned unless tried and found guilty.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Yes she can - remanded in custody pending trial. You really want someone with her terrorist background out on the streets ?
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
As opposed to pandering to people who would murder you in an instant ? It's this kind of attitude that has made us a haven for every terrorist organisation on the planet. Taking a soft line on this is insanity.
Esker-pades
Established Member
In what way has the UK become a "haven for every terrorist organisation on the planet"?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Been like this for decades.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Governments bend, tweak and amend laws at will when it suits them - I am more preventative measures (i.e. keep known terrorists off the streets)
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Ditto
Esker-pades
Established Member
That's a vague timeframe, not an answer.
Returning Ms Begum to the UK is not putting a terrorist in the street. It is putting one in jail (obvsiouly subject to a fair trial).
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Pubs were having collections for the IRA without authorities intervening in the 70's.
Esker-pades
Established Member
That is 40 years ago.
That is one terrorist group out of hundreds.
That isn't a safe haven.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Before it was removed because one of the participants took part in the London Bridge attack (you may be able to find it on YouTube), did you watch "The Jihadi Next Door"?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Biafra viewed themselves as a state, but events in the civil war overtook their aspiration.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Circumventing the rule of law puts you in the same boat as those you despise.
Esker-pades
Established Member
Hang on, I'm confused. Are you withdrawing your IRA point and using this one instead, or is this as a follow up to it?
I did not watch "The Jihadi Next Door".
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
We already entered that by lying about Saddam's WoMD and then the bs that followed, resulting in the rise of the very organisation she ran off to. I think leaving someone stateless is small fry to the actions of Mr Blair and Mr Bush Jr.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
No. They're both valid.
Esker-pades
Established Member
Whatabouterism galore. "Look at me! I can dance better than Theresea May!" Great, but that doesn't make you any good at it.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I wonder, noting her deeply held religious views that were a reason for her departure in the first place, why she does not wish to go to a more stable Wahaabist Islamic state, such as Saudi Arabia.
Esker-pades
Established Member
How is the first point about the IRA valid?
Could you explain how "The Jihadi Next Door" shows that the UK is a "haven for every terrorist organisation on the planet"?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
But I wasn’t justifying what Blair did. Not many people do.
EM2
Established Member
And that’s ‘being locked away and forgotten about’ is it? As for ‘wanting her out on the streets’, if you’d taken some time to actually read the thread, you will have seen that only ten posts before yours, I had clearly explained what I think should happen.
Killingworth
Established Member
I can't recall what we did with those who returned from Spain about 1938 when some must have witnessed, maybe taken part in, murderous acts on both sides of that civil war. OK, a different type of conflict, with limited impact back here at home - although some weren't at all happy with the actions of members of Sir Oliver Mosley's British Union of Fascists that wasn't banned until 1940. At least some of them would have been happy to murder Jews if Hitler had taken over here.
I've read reports of this young woman who was persuaded to leave Britain and willingly seems to have entered into a form of marriage with a young Dutch citizen. Most of the reports have been created by journalists asking leading questions. She's been positioned with lots of other people with similar views and experiences for about 4 years. By all accounts she's had minimal contact with the outside world. Now the the conflict is all but over she has been found by a posse of competing journalists all vying with each other for a scoop. Any lawyer would have told her to keep her mouth shut. Anything she says can be turned against her - and it has been.
None of us know the full truth, but she doesn't seem to have suggested active support for any campaign of terror either here or elsewhere. It's for the legal system to decide if she has committed any offence/s under British law.
Turning her situation into a cause celebre does nothing to rehabilitate her, or protect the British people. The press needs to back off and let her settle back into relative anonymity while her case is properly investigated and appropriately tried. Giving her either victim or martyr status doesn't help at all, either way.
There are probably a lot more murderous individuals among us now who need closer attention.
I've read reports of this young woman who was persuaded to leave Britain and willingly seems to have entered into a form of marriage with a young Dutch citizen. Most of the reports have been created by journalists asking leading questions. She's been positioned with lots of other people with similar views and experiences for about 4 years. By all accounts she's had minimal contact with the outside world. Now the the conflict is all but over she has been found by a posse of competing journalists all vying with each other for a scoop. Any lawyer would have told her to keep her mouth shut. Anything she says can be turned against her - and it has been.
None of us know the full truth, but she doesn't seem to have suggested active support for any campaign of terror either here or elsewhere. It's for the legal system to decide if she has committed any offence/s under British law.
Turning her situation into a cause celebre does nothing to rehabilitate her, or protect the British people. The press needs to back off and let her settle back into relative anonymity while her case is properly investigated and appropriately tried. Giving her either victim or martyr status doesn't help at all, either way.
There are probably a lot more murderous individuals among us now who need closer attention.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Is there any obligation on Britain to facilitate her return to Britain from the place where she now finds herself?
Esker-pades
Established Member
I don't believe so.
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