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Sheffield Supertram & Tram Train news

bluegoblin7

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10 May 2011
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JB/JP/JW
The Duewags may be older, and I don't think there's any denying that they're (over)due replacement, but comparing them with the T68s (and T69s) is like comparing chalk and cheese. The Duewags have been extremely reliable and solidly built on a known platform that still has plenty of similar vehicles in regular use across Germany. The T68s were basket cases due to the infamous build-quality issues at AnsaldoBreda, and were withdrawn significantly earlier than their design life (particularly in the case of the T68as) due to such.

Indeed, the Duewags are still significantly more reliable than the younger CR4000s in Croydon, and by all accounts its clear that the older M5000 vehicles are already starting to age in a way that is less than ideal.
 
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ALEMASTER

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18 Aug 2011
Messages
403
I just saw the SY Connect+ on the Stagecoach app and the re-read your post properly!

Is this really valid on any train, even in the peak as it’s only £1.30 more than an Anytime Day Return for Doncaster<>Sheffield that I mainly use.

Unfortunately my bus to Doncaster is from 3 miles into Notts so I assume I can’t use it for that.
Yes, any train within South Yorkshire, the only specific exclusion is LNER as the only station in South Yorkshire they serve is Doncaster. There is also a 7 day, 28 day and annual ticket. For your bus it would only be good as far as the county boundary. Full details at https://www.sytravelmaster.com/south-yorkshire
 

Lemmy282

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Joined
8 Apr 2021
Messages
131
Location
Sheffield
The Duewags were, I think, £1.75m each when built in the early 90's, and were designed for a life of about 25 years with a refresh halfway through that period. Certainly a big investment, and generally they have been very reliable over their life, but I agree they now look dated and tired. Virtually all the other systems that were built around the same time have replaced their earlier vehicles because of various issues. Birminghams T69's were a liability from the day they were introduced with very poor build quality and reliability, and as bluegoblin7 above says the T68's also had issues, so probably overall the Duewags have been better value for money.
Now the system has come back into public ownership I would hope to see some new vehicles introduced soon, but hopefully not CAF's!
 

edwin_m

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Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
26,781
Location
Nottingham
Duewag built some very solid and reliable trams. Unfortunately they seem to have lost some of that expertise after the Siemens takeover, resulting in the Combinos that suffered from severe structure fatigue issues. Other UK networks have gone for less robust vehicles, which probably cost less at the outset.
 

JD2168

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Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
1,386
Location
Sheffield
I find the Siemens-Duaweg trams better than the CityLink Tram Trains. They are more comfortable, have better legroom & feel more airy.
 

unlevel42

Member
Joined
5 May 2011
Messages
566
quality.I much prefer the CityLinks. Quieter and with a better seating arrangement for loners such as myself!
Having been a user of Supertram since opening day and a user of other systems in the UK, I find it remarkable that so few systems have the on board space and ride quality -a bit of a rattle when they move-like me!
 

Jozhua

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Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,890
Having been a user of Supertram since opening day and a user of other systems in the UK, I find it remarkable that so few systems have the on board space and ride quality -a bit of a rattle when they move-like me!
Supertram has pretty decent average speeds (outside of the city centre) for a tram with the amount of street running it does.

Nottingham's system is much slower outside of some select areas. Metro link is pretty poor on it's on street sections (lots of tight curves)
 

TC60054

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Joined
3 Mar 2016
Messages
593
Location
Doncaster
Tram 105 back in service.

There is a closure between Cathedral and Middlewood / Malin Bridge on Sunday for engineering works on the overhead lines - replacement buses BL1, YE1 and BY1 will operate throughout the day (check times for operation) operated by First.
 

ricoblade

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Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
460
Yes, any train within South Yorkshire, the only specific exclusion is LNER as the only station in South Yorkshire they serve is Doncaster. There is also a 7 day, 28 day and annual ticket. For your bus it would only be good as far as the county boundary. Full details at https://www.sytravelmaster.com/south-yorkshire

Thanks again @ALEMASTER.

I bought a SY Connect+ on the TSY app yesterday and it worked fine.

I was a bit surpised at the "ticket" format, just a screen with a timer countdown to its expiry, no barcode or Aztec/QR code. I queried this with the tram conductor and he said "oh, that ticket doesn't have one for some reaason, can't remember why" but it was accepted on tram and train, no problem, I'll definitely be using it again.
 

signed

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13 May 2024
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Paris, France
Thanks again @ALEMASTER.

I bought a SY Connect+ on the TSY app yesterday and it worked fine.

I was a bit surpised at the "ticket" format, just a screen with a timer countdown to its expiry, no barcode or Aztec/QR code. I queried this with the tram conductor and he said "oh, that ticket doesn't have one for some reaason, can't remember why" but it was accepted on tram and train, no problem, I'll definitely be using it again.
It's probably just a mTicket
 

317 forever

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Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,922
Location
North West
The summer rail replacement programme is complete, there are some small bits of weekend engineering work on the overhead power lines coming up on 15 September, 19-20 October and 26-27 October.

short journey would be within the City Centre out as far as Infirmary Road, Nunnery Square or Spring Lane. If you are going all the way out to Middlewood or Malin Bridge it is the capped single fare of £2.80. If you are returning then a day ticket will save money, £5.40 from the conductor or £5 in advance on the Travel South Yorkshire app, this allows unlimited tram travel all day across the network.

If you are also planning on using buses then Travelmaster offer a range of multi-modal tickets valid on all operators - Citywide is all buses and trams in Sheffield for £6.30, South Yorkshire Connect is all buses and trams in South Yorkshire for £8.60 or SY Connect+ is all buses, trains and trams in South Yorkshire for £10.70. These are also sold on the app or by conductors, more information at sytravelmaster.com.
Do you know where the engineering works are taking place in October?
 

ricoblade

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
460
It's probably just a mTicket
It is but I don't think it's be hard to mimic the screen as it has no identifier (that I can see).

Both tram and train (Northern) conductors and a Stagecoach bus driver have commented "I haven't seen it in that format before" so I assume it's pretty new. One Stagecoach bus driver had no idea what it was but acceptd it anyway "I belieive you love" being the comment!

Latest on new tram train route plans for Sheffield, as statement is issued on Stocksbridge extension​


I saw this headline in the online Stir but it's behinf their paywall. Knowing their propensity for clickbait headlines and the fact that I can't find any corroborating information, is this in any way "real" or just more noise?

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/traf...t-is-issued-on-stocksbridge-extension-4820132
 
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TreacleMiller

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Joined
22 Feb 2020
Messages
524
Location
-
It is but I don't think it's be hard to mimic the screen as it has no identifier (that I can see).

Both tram and train (Northern) conductors and a Stagecoach bus driver have commented "I haven't seen it in that format before" so I assume it's pretty new. One Stagecoach bus driver had no idea what it was but acceptd it anyway "I belieive you love" being the comment!

Latest on new tram train route plans for Sheffield, as statement is issued on Stocksbridge extension​


Here you go, no pay wall btw.

An update has been issued on plans for two new tram train routes through Sheffield.
New services would be introduced on the old Don Valley railway line between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge, and on the Barrow Hill line connecting Sheffield and Chesterfield, under the proposals being considered.

The Stocksbridge route could include stops at Oughtibridge, Wharncliffe Side and Deepcar.


The proposed tram-train extension between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge (bottom) could include stops at Deepcar, Wharncliffe Side and Oughtibridge (top).

The proposed tram-train extension between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge (bottom) could include stops at Deepcar, Wharncliffe Side and Oughtibridge (top) | Various
Potential stations on the Chesterfield route would include Darnall, the Advanced Manufacturing Park at Waverley, Woodhouse, Beighton, Killamarsh, Eckington, Barrow Hill/Staveley, and Whittington.

The old Victoria railway station in Sheffield city centre could also be reopened to serve both routes, according to plans which were previously drawn up.

Plans for new passenger rail services on both the Don Valley and Barrow Hill lines had received a small amount of cash in 2021 and 2020 respectively to develop ‘early stage proposals’, as part of the last government’s £500 million Restoring Your Railway Fund.

The Barrow Hill project then progressed past the strategic outline business case phase in 2022, when it was one of eight schemes to get a slice of £15m to further develop the plans.

The Conservative government subsequently promised funding to reintroduce services on the Don Valley line when it cancelled the northern leg of HS2 in 2023, though no sum was ever allocated, nor, it is understood, was any feasibility study carried out following the announcement.

The new Labour government announced in July that it was reviewing £2.9 billion of ‘unfunded’ transport commitments, which is understood to include the Restoring Your Railways Fund, as it sought to fill what it said was a £22bn public spending gap left by the previous administration.

‘Value for money’:

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh, who is the MP for Sheffield Heeley, said at the time that communities across the country had ‘been given hope for new transport infrastructure, with no plans or funds to deliver them’.

She said she was commissioning an internal review of the Department for Transport’s capital spend portfolio to support the development of the government’s ‘new long-term strategy for transport’.

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh, who is the MP for Sheffield Heeley said "I am determined that we build the transport infrastructure to drive economic growth and opportunity in every part of the country and to deliver value for money for taxpayers,” she said.

“That ambition requires a fundamental reset to how we approach capital projects – with public trust, industry confidence and government integrity at its heart.”

Feasibility work:

Work is continuing locally on proposals for the Stocksbridge and Barrow Hill extensions.
A spokesperson for the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority (SYMCA) told The Star this week: “We are currently undertaking technical feasibility work for the extension of the South Yorkshire Supertram network, including possible tram train extensions to Stocksbridge and Barrow Hill.

“We have stepped up our conversations with government, sharing our ambitions and look forward to continuing our engagement with ministers on these plans and how they are funded.”

Marie Tidball, the new Labour MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge, said of the proposed Don Valley line reopening: “This was promised three times by the Conservatives but not even a feasibility study was published".

“They then left office with a £22bn black hole, meaning that we cannot predict what is in the budget at this stage".

“Labour is bringing our railways back into public ownership as contracts expire, creating a single directing mind to run the railways more efficiently, and will test every decision on our railways against whether it delivers for the passenger".

“I’d like to see the Don Valley line reopened, but the Conservative fiscal black hole means we must be honest about what can be delivered, so we will have to wait to hear from the Chancellor at the end of the month.

“I’m also working closely with Oliver Coppard, our South Yorkshire Mayor, and Tom Hunt, leader of Sheffield City Council to pursue the option of a tram train between Sheffield and Stocksbridge, with stops at Oughtibridge, Wharncliffe Side and Deepcar, in addition to the £5m to future proof and extend the lifespan of the tram network already announced.”
 

ALEMASTER

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2011
Messages
403
Thanks again @ALEMASTER.

I bought a SY Connect+ on the TSY app yesterday and it worked fine.

I was a bit surpised at the "ticket" format, just a screen with a timer countdown to its expiry, no barcode or Aztec/QR code. I queried this with the tram conductor and he said "oh, that ticket doesn't have one for some reaason, can't remember why" but it was accepted on tram and train, no problem, I'll definitely be using it again.
The tram only tickets have qr codes, the rest don't. The problem with qr code tickets is only the issuing operator can scan them as the developers won't share the code with other ticket machine providers.

OK thanks. Being just 1 line I can probably plan my trip to avoid it.
Details now online at https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/supertram/supertram-network-improvements

19-20 October no service Arena to Meadowhall/Parkgate.

26-27 October no service Cricket Inn Road to Meadowhall/Parkgate.

Replacement buses to run Fitzalan Square to Parkgate via Meadowhall.

Here you go, no pay wall btw.

An update has been issued on plans for two new tram train routes through Sheffield.
New services would be introduced on the old Don Valley railway line between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge, and on the Barrow Hill line connecting Sheffield and Chesterfield, under the proposals being considered.

The Stocksbridge route could include stops at Oughtibridge, Wharncliffe Side and Deepcar.


The proposed tram-train extension between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge (bottom) could include stops at Deepcar, Wharncliffe Side and Oughtibridge (top).

The proposed tram-train extension between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge (bottom) could include stops at Deepcar, Wharncliffe Side and Oughtibridge (top) | Various
Potential stations on the Chesterfield route would include Darnall, the Advanced Manufacturing Park at Waverley, Woodhouse, Beighton, Killamarsh, Eckington, Barrow Hill/Staveley, and Whittington.

The old Victoria railway station in Sheffield city centre could also be reopened to serve both routes, according to plans which were previously drawn up.

Plans for new passenger rail services on both the Don Valley and Barrow Hill lines had received a small amount of cash in 2021 and 2020 respectively to develop ‘early stage proposals’, as part of the last government’s £500 million Restoring Your Railway Fund.

The Barrow Hill project then progressed past the strategic outline business case phase in 2022, when it was one of eight schemes to get a slice of £15m to further develop the plans.

The Conservative government subsequently promised funding to reintroduce services on the Don Valley line when it cancelled the northern leg of HS2 in 2023, though no sum was ever allocated, nor, it is understood, was any feasibility study carried out following the announcement.

The new Labour government announced in July that it was reviewing £2.9 billion of ‘unfunded’ transport commitments, which is understood to include the Restoring Your Railways Fund, as it sought to fill what it said was a £22bn public spending gap left by the previous administration.

‘Value for money’:

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh, who is the MP for Sheffield Heeley, said at the time that communities across the country had ‘been given hope for new transport infrastructure, with no plans or funds to deliver them’.

She said she was commissioning an internal review of the Department for Transport’s capital spend portfolio to support the development of the government’s ‘new long-term strategy for transport’.

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh, who is the MP for Sheffield Heeley said "I am determined that we build the transport infrastructure to drive economic growth and opportunity in every part of the country and to deliver value for money for taxpayers,” she said.

“That ambition requires a fundamental reset to how we approach capital projects – with public trust, industry confidence and government integrity at its heart.”

Feasibility work:

Work is continuing locally on proposals for the Stocksbridge and Barrow Hill extensions.
A spokesperson for the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority (SYMCA) told The Star this week: “We are currently undertaking technical feasibility work for the extension of the South Yorkshire Supertram network, including possible tram train extensions to Stocksbridge and Barrow Hill.

“We have stepped up our conversations with government, sharing our ambitions and look forward to continuing our engagement with ministers on these plans and how they are funded.”

Marie Tidball, the new Labour MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge, said of the proposed Don Valley line reopening: “This was promised three times by the Conservatives but not even a feasibility study was published".

“They then left office with a £22bn black hole, meaning that we cannot predict what is in the budget at this stage".

“Labour is bringing our railways back into public ownership as contracts expire, creating a single directing mind to run the railways more efficiently, and will test every decision on our railways against whether it delivers for the passenger".

“I’d like to see the Don Valley line reopened, but the Conservative fiscal black hole means we must be honest about what can be delivered, so we will have to wait to hear from the Chancellor at the end of the month.

“I’m also working closely with Oliver Coppard, our South Yorkshire Mayor, and Tom Hunt, leader of Sheffield City Council to pursue the option of a tram train between Sheffield and Stocksbridge, with stops at Oughtibridge, Wharncliffe Side and Deepcar, in addition to the £5m to future proof and extend the lifespan of the tram network already announced.”
This relates to the previous government "reverse Beeching" restoring your railways programme that seemed to involve lots of positive announcements but little more!

Two of the schemes announced were restoring passenger services on the Stocksbridge line and Sheffield to Chesterfield via Beighton/Barrow Hill (old road). These are actually both the same line, which runs past the back of the tram depot and it is viewed Tram Train is an option should it actually happen.
 
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317 forever

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Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,922
Location
North West
The tram only tickets have qr codes, the rest don't. The problem with qr code tickets is only the issuing operator can scan them as the developers won't share the code with other ticket machine providers.


Details now online at https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/supertram/supertram-network-improvements

19-20 October no service Arena to Meadowhall/Parkgate.

26-27 October no service Cricket Inn Road to Meadowhall/Parkgate.

Replacement buses to run Fitzalan Square to Parkgate via Meadowhall.


This relates to the previous government "reverse Beeching" restoring your railways programme that seemed to involve lots of positive announcements but little more!

Two of the schemes announced were restoring passenger services on the Stocksbridge line and Sheffield to Chesterfield via Beighton/Barrow Hill (old road). These are actually both the same line, which runs past the back of the tram depot and it is viewed Tram Train is an option should it actually happen.
Thank you for the reminder.

As I am going next Saturday, I can make do with normal buses to Meadowhall & Rotherham and ride the tram elsewhere, potentially Hillsborough to Crystal Peaks or Halfway.
 

Dave S 56F

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2020
Messages
145
Location
Cleckheaton west yorkshire
Notice to moderators and members on rail uk forums I don't know if ive posted this in the correct thread it's been announced from N.R. The Don valley ex G.C.R. route has been officially closed and mothballed to all traffic I've seen this on my google newsfeed on rail magazine. Dated today.
 

ricoblade

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
460
The tram only tickets have qr codes, the rest don't. The problem with qr code tickets is only the issuing operator can scan them as the developers won't share the code with other ticket machine providers.
I've bought the ticket on the app multiple time now and am getting constant grief off Northen conductors and Stagecoach East Midlands bus drivers (but never the lovely tram conductors 8-)).

"What's that?, never heard of that app? where's the code?".

Luckily I have always managed to argue my case but it's not the most relaxing exoerience!
 

dannypye9999

Member
Joined
28 Jun 2013
Messages
392
I use supertram alot and i have found the SYT app is rather annoying and needs an update. My stinks are:

When you purchase a day rider you need an Internet connection to get to your ticket unlike other ticket apps where the ticket downloads into the apps tickets section. No wifi is offered on trams either so anyone could run out of data. Last thing people need is having to stump up extra for another ticket. I think this puts conductors at risk of a serious assualt. Otherwise app should allow screenshots.

The app should open up to the ticket page instead of making you click through to the ticket section and hence slowing down conductors.

Also why do conductors suddenly need to use barcode scanners to see if a ticket is valid? I noticed it takes ages for their scanner to correctly focus on the barcode especially when the tram is moving. Again, just something to slow down conductors. There's a date on the eticket that they can check so why does it need scanning? Paper tickets always get checked without a scan so why do etickets? Under stagecoach they never used scanners they just checked the date manually.
 

eastwestdivide

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Joined
17 Aug 2009
Messages
2,929
Location
S Yorks, usually
When you purchase a day rider you need an Internet connection to get to your ticket unlike other ticket apps where the ticket downloads into the apps tickets section. No wifi is offered on trams either so anyone could run out of data. Last thing people need is having to stump up extra for another ticket
As I discovered the other day, when one of the mobile networks was on the blink in Sheffield. Managed to persuade the conductor though with the purchase confirmation email.
 

Discuss223

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Joined
30 Oct 2024
Messages
375
Location
Rowsley
I do think that rather than being replaced, the Duewags should be refurbished, new undercarriage equipment, shot blasted exteriors, new seats inside - high backed secular seating, get them in to Travel South Yorkshire livery and tidy up the scuffed interior walls. Update the systems so that newer designs of components can be sourced. Repair the corrosion and paint with anti-corrosion paint.

If they didn't have any life left in them, they wouldn't have just spent hundreds of pounds repairing 105 at Brodie's, which required a new front nose cone to be developed I believe.
 

dannypye9999

Member
Joined
28 Jun 2013
Messages
392
I do think that rather than being replaced, the Duewags should be refurbished, new undercarriage equipment, shot blasted exteriors, new seats inside - high backed secular seating, get them in to Travel South Yorkshire livery and tidy up the scuffed interior walls. Update the systems so that newer designs of components can be sourced. Repair the corrosion and paint with anti-corrosion paint.

If they didn't have any life left in them, they wouldn't have just spent hundreds of pounds repairing 105 at Brodie's, which required a new front nose cone to be developed I believe.

I think they need replacing. I don't like the warning tone of them doors when they are about to close and when they do finally close you have to avoid massive metal bars that suddenly rush in towards you especially if people are standing in the doorway and the bars knock into you.. How those trams have lasted 30 years I don't know. When you compare them to Metrolinks original grey trams which only lasted for 15 years and yet both trams started running round about the same time 1994.
 

ModernRailways

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2011
Messages
2,117
I do think that rather than being replaced, the Duewags should be refurbished, new undercarriage equipment, shot blasted exteriors, new seats inside - high backed secular seating, get them in to Travel South Yorkshire livery and tidy up the scuffed interior walls. Update the systems so that newer designs of components can be sourced. Repair the corrosion and paint with anti-corrosion paint.

If they didn't have any life left in them, they wouldn't have just spent hundreds of pounds repairing 105 at Brodie's, which required a new front nose cone to be developed I believe.
It may be possible to refurbish them but it’s the long term costs associated with keeping them and maintaining them. The cost of new trams will likely be significantly more than any refurbishment would cost, but the costs associated with maintenance and general running costs will be lower so over time it will balance out as you’ll still need a new fleet sometime soon.
 

Lemmy282

Member
Joined
8 Apr 2021
Messages
131
Location
Sheffield
They've lasted this long because they were well built to start with unlike the original Metrolink cars. The Duewags had a mid life refresh about 15 years ago which included underfloor sealing etc. I was on one the other day and it performed just as well as when they were new, but I admit they look their age from outside. There doesn't seem to be any rush to replace the Stagecoach livery, but I assume they are leaving that as the mayoral authority are pursuing finance for a new fleet.
I think it would be false economy to rebuild them, added to the fact that it takes a lot of money, there is the problem of time. With a limited fleet only one or two could be done at a time, and with 25 9f them the process would drag on.
 

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